A 12-Team WCHA

[Big A HG]

Why is it that everything you post seems to be against BSU and the CHA?

No, BSU's OT game vs Denver doesn't make them a good team, but it helps. They can't be judged solely on that game, just as you pointing out a sweep of RMU by Wis doesn't mean RMU isn't a pretty good team.

If you recall, Robert Morris beat Notre Dame last year and have beaten Boston this year along with going 1-0-1 vs Ohio St(who beat #1 Michigan).

Niagara does in fact have a win over "powerhouse" Merrimack as you sarcastically stated. Merrimack has also beat Boston and swept Maine this year.

BSU has beaten UMD 5 of the last 6(can UND say that?) and always seems to play UND tough for the most part. I think that they tied UND the year that they took DU into tourney OT.

Hunstville also made the tourney last year and took Notre Dame to double OT.

As it sits, BSU, RMU and Niagara are all receiving votes in the poll this week and BSU would be tied for 22nd if the poll went that far.

The CHA as a whole has lost a lot of talent from last year and unlike UND and MN, there aren't always studs waiting to fill those players shoes.

The CHA certainly isn't on par with the WCHA but that doesn't mean the teams can't be good.

BSU would do just fine in the WCHA.

Like an earlier post said.....think back a little bit. The Sioux weren't always playing in an 11,000 seat palace. The team wouldn't be where it is today if they didn't get help.

So, after typing all that, what does BSU actually add to the WCHA other than a team that COULD be competitive on any given night (which the WCHA already has 10 of)?

[Goon]

I will pose a queston to those that don't want BSU in the WCHA:

~What does UAA add to the WCHA?

~What does MSU-M add to the WCHA?

~What does SCSU add to the WCHA?

All teams these teams were added after the WCHA after it was an established league. All these programs had objections to them being a member of the league by fans of some program. All have now been member of the WCHA for at least 10 seasons. I don't see what the big deal is? I would rather have BSU and say a UNO than some Canadian University become a member of the WCHA. Now there will be some travel concerns.

[Big A HG]

I will pose a queston to those that don't want BSU in the WCHA:

~What does UAA add to the WCHA?

~What does MSU-M add to the WCHA?

~What does SCSU add to the WCHA?

All teams these teams were added after the WCHA after it was an established league. All these programs had objections to them being a member of the league by fans of some program. All have now been member of the WCHA for at least 10 seasons. I don't see what the big deal is? I would rather have BSU and say a UNO than some Canadian University become a member of the WCHA. Now there will be some travel concerns.

A1: Nothing

A2: Nothing

A3: A Nationally competitive team (more than just a conference-competitive team...and yes, I know they never won a tourney game)

Why do we need ANOTHER team like MSUM and UAA if that's what level you think they are at. We should just add the whole CHA while we are at it so all of our wonderful brothers and sisters have a great home in our awesome conference. Why not take some away from some other conferences too that might not like it in their conferences. In fact, let's just have a Eastern US conference and a Western US conference and play everyone in our half once and the best team plays the best team from the east.

Man, wouldn't that be great. All of our best college hockey buds would have permanent home in the newly expanded 20+ team WCHA.

EVERY college hockey program will add "SOMETHING" to the WCHA!! Everyone is competitive once in awhile! BSU beat Merrimack who beat Ohio State who beat Notre Dame who beat Miami who beat Michigan so that must mean BSU is f'in awesome.

I changed my mind, let's add the whole gang.

[Upper Deck]

Things are looking fairly good for BSU and an unbalanced WCHA schedule. Bemidji Pioneer

[NorthDakotaHockey]

After having somewhat mixed feelings on BSU joining the WCHA, I am now all in and all for the idea for at least the following reasons, in no particular order:

1. A solid fit geographically. The potential for a big rivalry developing, even if years down the road, is well present.

2. Following the Sioux on the road is a blast for fans. A trip to Bemidji will be a relatively easy drive for GF-based fans.

3. Any more contraction in college hockey is not a good thing. The loss of Wayne State may spell the loss of other programs

if they do not get the support that they need. The WCHA is well-positioned to lend BSU a helping hand.

4. BSU is no slouch. A fine program with a solid history. So what if it is a small town? So are Grand Forks, Saint Cloud, Mankato, and Houghton.

5. BSU remaining in D-I will continue to provide further D-I opportunities for high school talent from the region, including, most importantly, kids from North Dakota, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Manitoba, and Ontario. Unlike some of the "little sister" programs elsewhere, Bemidji is located where it can, and will, compete for quality recruits.

6. Any program, or near any program, that can recruit talent, even if so-called second tier talent, has the potential, with good coaching, to meld a team capable of going far. This may be particularly true where such programs, although not capable of landing some blue-chippers, can get some decent talent and put together a team that will stay together for four years. The only reason that MSU-Mankato has not done so yet is because it has a relative bonehead for a coach.

7. There will be another team competing for The Dairy Queen Cup, the only piece of hardware that most, if not all, of the teams based in the so-called State of Hockey are capable of reasonably competing for these days.

8. It will get NDSU off of its duff and build a program. Something it should have done thirty years ago.

[franchise]

So, after typing all that, what does BSU actually add to the WCHA other than a team that COULD be competitive on any given night (which the WCHA already has 10 of)?

They COULD win every night now. Watch what happens if they get into the WCHA and can offer that experience to recruits. They'll do much better than the perrenial basements dwellers that the WCHA has now. A few years down the road, I could see BSU hosting a first rd playoff series.

[mksioux]

8. It will get NDSU off of its duff and build a program. Something it should have done thirty years ago.

NDSU isn't going add hockey anytime soon no matter what BSU does.

[nodak hockey fanatic]

after reading the pros and cons here, i think i have to be on the side of letting BSU in only because i don't want to see them fold. we can't afford to lose anymore D1 teams, we need to be adding programs and growing college hockey. after reading the short article in the bemidji herald, it sounds like the wcha might consider promising bsu 12 wcha games a season (but not letting them in the conference?) If we could somehow get by until we can add the canadian schools and then form a new conference, that would be ideal. actually, what would be ideal is a total realignment with the new teams considered, but i don't see that happening. realistically, i think we will see bsu (plus another team?) in the wcha, or a new conference, with an ncaa autobid, when the candian schools come in. personally, i like bsu as a rival and would not mind seeing them in the wcha.

[mksioux]

There's a lot of focus on whether BSU would be competitive in the WCHA in determining whether they are worthy for admittance. While obviously that is a factor, it's not the factor. There are more important considerations.

Does anyone have any insight as to what Minnesota and Wisconsin think about adding Bemidji State? I've heard they are against it. If that it is the case, do we really want to vote in BSU over their objection? What are the unintended consequences of doing so?

I don't claim to have the answers, but UND needs to look out for UND on this one and can't worry about BSU. The absolute worst thing that could happen would be for Minnesota and Wisconsin to leave the WCHA and UND be on the outside-looking-in on their new conference. UND needs to take that into consideration in whatever decisions it makes with regard to conference affiliation.

[mikejm]

This topic has become mind-numbing. I really could care less whether BSU is in the WCHA or not. What concerns me is the future of D-I hockey.

We are 59 schools and dropping. And aside from a few obvious exceptions in the WCHA and CCHA, the schools involved in hockey are smallish enrollment-wise. College hockey is essentially a boutique sport.

Every hockey program needs to work as hard as possible to expand the sport to more schools, perhaps even new geographies. Who would've ever thought Huntsville, AL? Heck, when I first started watching UND hockey I seem to remember a D-I program in San Diego!

I like the WCHA's apparent offer of assistance to BSU in scheduling. Someone earlier posted the interlocking schedule arrangement that essentially saved the WCHA's bacon after it lost the Michigan schools. Every conference, every team, every college hockey fan needs to be focused on the big picture here, which is maintaining D-I hockey's viability. We need to bring more fans into the sport, and eventually more teams, more conferences, etc.

[NorthDakotaHockey]

. . .

The absolute worst thing that could happen would be for Minnesota and Wisconsin to leave the WCHA and UND be on the outside-looking-in on their new conference. UND needs to take that into consideration in whatever decisions it makes with regard to conference affiliation.

And where, pray tell, would either of these two schools go? In the mildly threatened "Big Ten Conference" that would include, at best, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, Michigan State, and maybe Notre Dame?? I don't think so. These two schools are not going anywhere as the WCHA, whether or not it includes BSU, is the best thing to happen to them from many perspectives, not the least of which is quality of competition, natural rivalries, and ease of travel.

[nodak hockey fanatic]

i agree with you here. where exactly are minny and wisco going to go? a five team big ten? if they leave, which they won't, because it would screw up their current respective conferences, how do they fill the rest of the conference? get illinois, iowa, northwestern, pudue and penn state to start programs? i'm all for it, but it won't happen. the wcha isn't ran by minny and the BADgers. as much as i love to watch us kick the s@#t out of those teams, we would be fine without them. wouldn't be the same, but we would survive, and still be the best conference in college hockey. give a little more credit to und, cc, du, mtu, umd and scsu. the wcha is a hell of a conference, and it will stay that way.

[MafiaMan]

And where, pray tell, would either of these two schools go? In the mildly threatened "Big Ten Conference" that would include, at best, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, Michigan State, and maybe Notre Dame?? I don't think so.

At best? Ever heard of Ohio State? Last time I checked, it's a pretty big school in Columbus. That's six schools with a pretty impressive hockey resume. Should those six schools join together, I guarantee you'd see Denver, Colorado College, Northern Michigan, North Dakota, and about a dozen other schools pining to get into what would quickly be the biggest and best college hockey conference. Mildly threatened? The Big 10 Network would LOVE it!

I'm not anti-Bemidji State, as one poster suggested, I'm more worried about the potential pitfalls of letting them into the WCHA over the objection of two flagship programs, Minnesota and Wisconsin.

Ask a North Dakota sports fan who their biggest rivals are and you'll no doubt hear "Minnesota and Wisconsin." Would Minnesota and Wisconsin prefer playing North Dakota and small schools several times a year or would they prefer to bolt and play in East Lansing, Ann Arbor, Columbus, etc...? You'd have to ask them...and I think their answer might surprise you.

[GeauxSioux]

This topic has become mind-numbing. I really could care less whether BSU is in the WCHA or not. What concerns me is the future of D-I hockey.

We are 59 schools and dropping. And aside from a few obvious exceptions in the WCHA and CCHA, the schools involved in hockey are smallish enrollment-wise. College hockey is essentially a boutique sport.

Every hockey program needs to work as hard as possible to expand the sport to more schools, perhaps even new geographies. Who would've ever thought Huntsville, AL? Heck, when I first started watching UND hockey I seem to remember a D-I program in San Diego!

I like the WCHA's apparent offer of assistance to BSU in scheduling. Someone earlier posted the interlocking schedule arrangement that essentially saved the WCHA's bacon after it lost the Michigan schools. Every conference, every team, every college hockey fan needs to be focused on the big picture here, which is maintaining D-I hockey's viability. We need to bring more fans into the sport, and eventually more teams, more conferences, etc.

There was a school in San Diego with hockey, but I don't remember the name of it. Northern Arizona University had a program, but had budget problems. If UND could get into the Big Sky and use influence to expand hockey out west, it would be great. Hockey belongs in places like Montana and Idaho. Get Northern Arizona back on track again.

Edit - I think it was United State International University which is now called Alliant International University.

Edited January 15, 2008 by GeauxSioux

[NorthDakotaHockey]

Oops. I forgot about Ohio State. No wonder. Ohio State with an impressive hockey resume? C'mon MafiaMan. I am pretty sure that The Schott draws hockey crowds in the hundreds, rather than the thousands, for most games. Hockey is a lame sport at OSU. Always has been, always will be. Just becuase they have a big building built for basketballers does not mean that they will ever come close to filling it.

Flagship programs?? Me thinks that you are given the rodents from the easterly reaches of the WCHA far too much credit. They would beg to return to the fold should they ever be so myopic to leave the fold.

[MafiaMan]

Oops. I forgot about Ohio State. No wonder. Ohio State with an impressive hockey resume? C'mon MafiaMan. I am pretty sure that The Schott draws hockey crowds in the hundreds, rather than the thousands, for most games. Hockey is a lame sport at OSU. Always has been, always will be. Just becuase they have a big building built for basketballers does not mean that they will ever come close to filling it.

Flagship programs?? Me thinks that you are given the rodents from the easterly reaches of the WCHA far too much credit. They would beg to return to the fold should they ever be so myopic to leave the fold.

I meant to define the conference as a whole with an impressive resume. Value City Arena typically draws 2,500 to 4,000 fans for hockey, except when Michigan comes to town. That's when 13,000 to 14,000 fair-weather fans come out just to yell "Michigan sucks."

Minnesota, North Dakota, and Wisconsin are indeed the flagship programs of the WCHA. Take away any two of those three, and the third one will be wishing they were with the other two.

When are we gonna play some darts again, NDH?

[Big A HG]

The Big Ten conference would be good and bad for college hockey I think. I think it would bring a "name-brand" type recognition to college hockey. But, schools like us would be looking in from the outside and we'd be scrambling to form a conference with the weak remainders.

BIG TEN

Michigan

Michigan State

Ohio State

Wisconsin

Minnesota

Penn State (would be intrigued by the Big Ten name and add both men's and women's programs)

Purdue (a bigger stretch, but I think a school that could get persuaded to join, they have lots of money)

Notre Dame (could be enough incentive for all athletic programs to join the Big Ten)

So, that's an 8-time conference with PSU and Purdue....6 without. 8 is a perfect number I think.

NEW WCHA

North Dakota

St. Cloud

Michigan Tech

Duluth

Denver

Colorado College

Anchorage

Bemidji State

NEW CCHA

Miami

Bowling Green

Ferris State

Alaska

Northern Michigan

Lake Superior

Western Michigan

Air Force

NEW CHA

Niagara

Huntsville

Mankato

Robert Morris

Nebraska-Omaha

HOCKEY EAST (unchanged)

Boston College

Boston U.

Maine

Northeastern

UMass

UNH

UMass-Lowell

Vermont

Providence

Merrimack

NEW ATLANTIC HOCKEY

Sacred Heart

RIT

Mercyhurst

Bentley

Army

Canisius

Holy Cross

AI

UCONN

Syracuse (is joining college hockey)

Just tinkered everything. Obviously schools would be in conferences where they didn't want, and the Big Ten would be the dominant conference, but if you want 6 remotely balanced conferences, how else could you do it? And for all you people out there, I added BSU into the now much weaker WCHA. CCHA is a really weak conference now.

[MafiaMan]

If you recall, Robert Morris beat Notre Dame last year and have beaten Boston this year along with going 1-0-1 vs Ohio St(who beat #1 Michigan).

Niagara does in fact have a win over "powerhouse" Merrimack as you sarcastically stated. Merrimack has also beat Boston and swept Maine this year.

BSU has beaten UMD 5 of the last 6(can UND say that?) and always seems to play UND tough for the most part. I think that they tied UND the year that they took DU into tourney OT.

Hunstville also made the tourney last year and took Notre Dame to double OT.

As it sits, BSU, RMU and Niagara are all receiving votes in the poll this week and BSU would be tied for 22nd if the poll went that far.

RMU beat Boston U despite managing a paltry 15 shots on goal compared to BU's 35. This is not one of BU's better teams and they currently reside at 6-10-3.

Notre Dame has been a collegiate patsy for years before last season's resurgence under Jeff Jackson. A good team, yes, but also an overwhelming favorite over the Spartans last year in the regionals. They're not a top-notch program just yet.

Merrimack followed up their sweep of Maine by losing twice to UMass Lowell. You mentioned that they defeated Boston, but I see an 0-2-1 record against BC this year and an 0-1 mark against BU. Besides, when was Merrimack last relevant in Hockey East, let alone the NCAA tournament?

BSU has beaten UMD 5 of the last 6. Lots of other teams can make that claim lately too.

Huntsville took Notre Dame to double OT.

Air Force took Minnesota down to the wire.

Minnesota State swept the Zach Parise-led Sioux a few years ago too.

Mercyhurts almost beat Michigan at Yost.

We could go on all day if you would like, but I've forgotten what your point was.

[NorthDakotaHockey]

When are we gonna play some darts again, NDH?

I recently bought a dart board, a real one, at a fundraiser and have been working hard at honing my skills.

I am tossing some darts as well.

Revenge will be mine, as will be the last laugh. Word has it that you are getting soft with all of

the women that you've been courting MafiaMan.

[MafiaMan]

CCHA is a really weak conference now.

Miami, Michigan, Notre Dame, and Michigan State look pretty decent to me.

[MafiaMan]

I recently bought a dart board, a real one, at a fundraiser and have been working hard at honing my skills.

I am tossing some darts as well.

Revenge will be mine, as will be the last laugh.

Just don't forget your wallet when we play again.

[AZSIOUX]

Miami, Michigan, Notre Dame, and Michigan State look pretty decent to me.

umm..he was referring to his NEW CCHA alignment without those teams

yeah but seriously, michigan will be the only team who will make the frozen 4 the rest will bow out early MM especially miami and notre dame

[MafiaMan]

umm..he was referring to his NEW CCHA alignment without those teams

That's what happens when I'm not paying attention.

[MafiaMan]

yeah but seriously, michigan will be the only team who will make the frozen 4 the rest will bow out early MM especially miami and notre dame

Yea, just like Michigan State was gonna bow out early last year. Miami and Notre Dame now have another year of tournament experience under their belts. I'd watch out for them. Anything can happen in a one game situation. Just ask BC. They would beat MSU 9 out of 10 times they played, but in that one magical game last spring...

[Stromer]

Adding BSU would be the socially responsible thing to do. It also may be the step of placing the noose around UND's neck. While I want to see college hockey flourish, I really don't see a lot of schools adding it in the next 20 years. I say we help them out in the schedule but we don't add them in hopes of waiting and seeing if anything happens within the next 5-10 years.