Guess who's looking at IA Football: Jacksonville St

[star2city]

Off the top of my head, here's a list of schools that are often mentioned as having IA football aspirations or publicly expressed those desires:

UC-Davis

Sac St

Portland St

Montana

Texas-San Antonio (doesn't even have football yet)

Kennesaw St (ditto)

Appalachian St

Ga Southern

Texas St

Massachusetts

Delaware

James Madison

Old Dominion

Illinois St

Youngstown St

To that list, add Jacksonville St (AL), who haven't really done much since they left DII: Bham News: Jacksonville State studies move to big time

The Jacksonville State University board of trustees on Monday formed an exploratory committee to investigate a possible move to the NCAA's Football Bowl Subdivision. ...

JSU President William A. Meehan called the discussion "very, very preliminary," but board member Jim Coxwell said it is just a matter of time before the Gamecocks are playing in the same division - and possibly the same conference - as former archrival Troy.

"There are no preconceived ideas. We need to see what the financial implications are. If it's a positive thing on the financial aspect and a positive for the university, then it's something we'll consider as we move down the road."

The board also approved a recommendation to get preliminary architectural drawings by Sept.1 for a renovation of the south stands that would add 5,000 seats to the 15,000-seat Paul Snow Stadium.

The six-story addition would include a new press box, executive suites, classroom space and possibly a wellness center operated by Jacksonville State that would serve the Calhoun County area.

With Fullerton talking about the Big Sky moving to IA, and with some chatter that the Colonial (formerly A10) conference may go IA in the future, how much longer will IAA (FCS) be viable?

[bincitysioux]

With Fullerton talking about the Big Sky moving to IA, and with some chatter that the Colonial (formerly A10) conference may go IA in the future, how much longer will IAA (FCS) be viable?

I-AA will be viable for a long time. Schools come and schools go from all divisions, all the time. Fullerton is full of hot air, we know that. Moving the entire Big Sky to I-A is preposterous in my opinion. The only schools that I can see that would be in favor of it would be UM (only school that really has the resources, facillities, and fanbase to do it), Sac St. (only because of their President's infatuation with Fresno St., that could change if he ever left), and Montana St. (would only consider it if UM left first). You could make an argument at the current time for Portland St., but that is only because of Jerry Glanville. That talk will end in three years when he moves on.

ISU would have no interest in the FBS (Idaho can't really support two I-A schools, much less 3). UNC............I don't think so. NAU with their location and facillities can't compete with ASU and UofA for the sports entertainment dollars in AZ. Same goes for Eastern Washington with regards to the Huskies and Cougars. Weber St. would have to contend with BYU and Utah.

If UofM and/or MSU did make the plunge into the FBS, that would only be more incentive for the above schools to make a stronger commitment to I-AA, because that would immediatly make schools like NAU, EWU, etc. contenders in the FCS.

The Big Sky would be far better off improving their standing within NCAA basketball. They are already one of the top 2 or 3 FCS conferences in the country. I-AA football is similar to college hockey..........it is a bit of niche sport, but the schools that excel at it, have a rabid regional and national following. The Big Sky gets much more attention as a powerhouse FCS conference than it would as a bottom-feeding FBS conference. Maybe Fullerton doesn't realize this, but I'm sure the University Presidents do.

[GeauxSioux]

Sun Belt not looking to add JSU

The commissioner of the league that some Jacksonville State football supporters have their eyes on says there's no room for the Gamecocks.

Meanwhile, Jacksonville State Athletics Director Jim Fuller expressed surprise that a move to the Football Bowl Subdivision, formerly known as Division I-A, was brought to the forefront in Monday's board of trustees meeting.

The JSU board's athletics committee formed an exploratory subcommittee to discover the pros and cons and costs of moving from the Football Championship Subdivision to the FBS.

Waters said the University of Denver, which does not play football, is likely one day to leave the Sun Belt for a more western league, but he doesn't foresee any other defections or any mass shakeup in other conferences across the country.

[MplsBison]

I guarantee that there will be major shakeups within the next 10 years.

Colorado going to the Pac 10, Syracuse or Rutgers going to the Big 10, and the Big East split will cause many moves. Maybe up to 25.

[iramurphy]

Don't forget NDSU.

You are correct. You may also add UND to the same list. It will be a while for both schools but, that is the goal of the guy at UND who is spearheading the D1AA move. You can bet NDSU would have the same aspirations. One step at a time though.

[MplsBison]

If a school wants to and has the ability to grant 85 football scholarships, I see no reason why they shouldn't be allowed to do so.

[star2city]

Another school likely moving up to IA football. South Alabama doesn't field a team yet, but, with its existing membership in the Sunbelt, has a ready-made conference.

South Alabama (USA) Football would break even

USA officials have been publicly considering bringing a football program to the school for the last month. Such a program would be mostly financed by a $200 to $300 increase in student fees annually.

Moulton said that USA already spends about $6.4 million a year to cover losses from other sports currently offered.

He said it would be hard to say exactly how much a new football program would cost the school, but the figure would gradually climb as the program becomes more established.

The first year would likely cost less than $1.5 million because the school could offer fewer scholarships and would still be hiring coaches, trainers and other personnel. By the third year, that figure would grow to $3.5 million and would increase to about $5 million by the fourth or fifth year, Moulton said.

But all of these costs would likely be paid for by the student fee increase, ticket sales and money that established programs could give USA to play away games, Moulton said. This would keep the school from dipping into general university funds.

University officials have said that a new football team would likely not take the field until 2009. Moulton said Tuesday that he thinks the school probably would not be able to play at the top level of NCAA football, formerly known as Division I but now called the Football Bowl Subdivision, until 2011.

He said he thinks a strong majority of the 14,000-student school's population support football, and the Student Government Association president said the organization has amassed 2,000 signatures on student petitions to support football and the higher activity fees.

The faculty senate also voted last month 27-4 in support of a new football program, according to Moulton.

[star2city]

With the rate football announcements are going, IAA's ranks could be devastated in a few years.

Starting football and going to IA level:

UT-San Antonio

South Alabama

Discussing starting football, possibly at IA level:

Georgia State

Kennesaw State

Charlotte

North Florida

IAA to IA moves announced (2011)

Texas State

Jacksonville St

University goals to be at IA football:

Cal Poly

Sacramento State

Portland State

Public discussions by University officials on IA football/conference changes:

UMass

Illinois State

S Illinois

Missouri State

Ga Southern

Appalachian State

Liberty

James Madison

Delaware St

Current potential for IA:

Delaware

Montana

Montana St

NDSU

Youngstown St

North Dakota

Other possible:

Old Dominion (starting in IAA)

Albany (ramping up scholarships)

[spearman]

Glad to see this discussion happening at UND. If Wyoming can do D-1A FB as isolated as it is in Laramie with only 40,000 Pop. why can't UND with a metro of 100,000. A new stadium that looks like the Ivy League with a retractable roof would be a great recruiting tool. The Bison are locked into a 19,000 seat stadium so UND is in a better position to move sooner to D-1A with the ability to leave the Alerus. In order for UND to become a national univ. and recruit students nationally D-1A FB is necessary. There is no choice if we are serious about dealing with the declining # of home grown HS grads. 25-30,000 seats would be necessary I believe to qualify for 1-A. With 70 Twin City H.S. producing players there are enough to go around. The S.Dak. schools can't jump to 1A as they are in very small towns. If UND can get the jump on NDSU it may relegate the Bison to 1AA status for a long time. There should only be one 1-A fb school in N.D. just like in Neb., Wyo., Mn. & Wisc.

With the rate football announcements are going, IAA's ranks could be devastated in a few years.

Starting football and going to IA level:

UT-San Antonio

South Alabama

Discussing starting football, possibly at IA level:

Georgia State

Kennesaw State

Charlotte

North Florida

IAA to IA moves announced (2011)

Texas State

Jacksonville St

University goals to be at IA football:

Cal Poly

Sacramento State

Portland State

Public discussions by University officials on IA football/conference changes:

UMass

Illinois State

S Illinois

Missouri State

Ga Southern

Appalachian State

Liberty

James Madison

Delaware St

Current potential for IA:

Delaware

Montana

Montana St

NDSU

Youngstown St

North Dakota

Other possible:

Old Dominion (starting in IAA)

Albany (ramping up scholarships)

[The Sicatoka]

25-30,000 seats would be necessary I believe to qualify for 1-A.

Number of seats does not matter per se; however, ....

The requirement for FBS (formerly DI-A) is "Once every two years on a rolling basis, the institution shall average at least 15,000 in actual or paid attendance for all home football games."

See Section 20.9.7.3 of the 2007-08 NCAA DI Manual for all of the gorey details.

[MplsBison]

The only reason that U of Wyoming is FBS is because Wyoming decided to have 1 flagship university instead of 2.

Montana has 2 flagships, both located in decent sized towns or not terribly far from them and neither of them are FBS.

But I can guarantee that if UND ever goes FBS first, NDSU will quickly follow. We already average enough attendance to qualify and have the necessary number of sports sponsored (16). It would just be a matter of adding 22 more scholarships to the football program and maintaining title IX compliance.

The problem being that it would really put a strain on the state of ND/NDUS to fund 2 FBS schools.

Maybe if they closed down some of the smaller campuses.

[spearman]

Is FLAGSHIP univ. an official term? Are Mn., Wisc., Neb. one flagship univ. states? Would Mn. allow St. Cloud and Mankato to go D-1 FBS? There are no other FBS schools in Wisc. besides Madison , that's why I ask if that makes Wisc. a one flagship univ. state?

The only reason that U of Wyoming is FBS is because Wyoming decided to have 1 flagship university instead of 2.

Montana has 2 flagships, both located in decent sized towns or not terribly far from them and neither of them are FBS.

But I can guarantee that if UND ever goes FBS first, NDSU will quickly follow. We already average enough attendance to qualify and have the necessary number of sports sponsored (16). It would just be a matter of adding 22 more scholarships to the football program and maintaining title IX compliance.

The problem being that it would really put a strain on the state of ND/NDUS to fund 2 FBS schools.

Maybe if they closed down some of the smaller campuses.

[Hammersmith]

Is FLAGSHIP univ. an official term? Are Mn., Wisc., Neb. one flagship univ. states? Would Mn. allow St. Cloud and Mankato to go D-1 FBS? There are no other FBS schools in Wisc. besides Madison , that's why I ask if that makes Wisc. a one flagship univ. state?

No, flagship is not an official term. What happened to the different states went something like this...

When territories acheived statehood, they were given money to start a state university. Alongside this, the Morrill Act of 1862 gave every state a piece of federal land to start an agricultural/engineering/military college. Some states, like WI, MN, WY & NE, choose to lump the two grants together to form one large university. States like ND, SD, MT, KS & CO, chose to create two seperate institutions. Today, states like the first group tend to call the resulting university their flagship. The second type of states will often, but not always, give the flagship title to both major universities. Normally, the choice is made depending on how each university has fared over the last hundred years or so(some grow and prosper, others fail and become irrelevant). The flagship title can even move to a new school if circumstances warrant(ex. San Jose State was the first public university in CA, but most would regard UCLA and UC Berkeley as CA's flagship schools).

Another description and a listing* of states' flagship universities can be found here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flagship_university

*The listing is based off of a USA Today article listing tuition costs at 75 public flagship schools. The 75 number is arbitrary and the list should not viewed as official or completely accurate(I think SDSU should be on it).

[MplsBison]

States that chose to establish a new public university separate from existing public schools via the Morrill Land Grant act:

Washington - Washington State U

Utah - Utah State U

Colorado - Colorado State U

Montana - Montana State U

North Dakota - North Dakota State U

South Dakota - South Dakota State U

Kansas - Kansas State U

Oklahoma - Oklahoma State U

Texas - Texas A&M U

Mississippi - Mississippi State U

South Carolina - Clemson U

North Carolina - North Carolina State U

Virginia - Virginia Tech U

Indiana - Purdue U

Ohio - Ohio State U

The rest of the states designated a previously established school as their "land grant school" or established a singular public university.

[Hammersmith]

As I was looking back on flagship/land-grant universities, I learned about sea, space and sun grant colleges. No big suprise, none of the Dakota schools are sea-grant colleges(30 schools; started in 1966), but UND is a space-grant college(52 consortia; started in 1988), and SDSU is one of five sun grant colleges(started in 2003) in addition to its land-grant status. Actually, SDSU is the lead program of the five.

For more information:

Land-grant university

Sea grant colleges

Space grant colleges

Sun grant colleges

Back on topic, sort of...

While I don't view a FBS move by NDSU as realistic in the near to short term, NDSU has to be about 10x more likely than UND to make the move within the same timeframe. It always boils down to the same thing: where's the conference? You've got two realistic choices in FBS conferences: MAC and WAC. The MAC has so-so geography, but it doesn't have much competitive appeal, and UND wouldn't really fit in(the smallest MAC school has over 20,000 in enrollment). The WAC would be a geographic nightmare, though UND would be only the third smallest. I like to talk about a FBS MVC, but as unlikely as they are to take NDSU anytime soon, UND's chances are probably in the negative, so long as UND basketball is considered a tertiary sport behind hockey and football. Finally, a few posters seem to forget that that athletic facilities master plan has a 30-50 year timeframe. Some of the projects listed in it may come soon, but others are decades away, if they even happen at all. Guess where that stadium comes in at. (BTW, the rendering for the outdoor stadium in the first draft of the plan was actually copied from the new Gopher stadium. Does anyone recognize where the architects grabbed the retractable roof stadium design from?)

Just an opinion.

[MplsBison]

What about a new FBS conference anchored by NDSU, UND, SDSU, USD, Montana State and Montana?

[spearman]

I not sure your 30-50 yr. time frames are accurate. Rick Tonder sp? at UND Facilities is talking much shorter times if I hear him correctly. If the city would agree to build a practice facility at the Alerus and add seats UND would stay at the Al. If not wittin 5 yrs. Ralph #1 would be the site of a new practice facilityand within 10 yrs. the stadium addition would create a stadium with 20,000-25,000 seats. His attitude is that if you only fill it once a year for NDSU it works.

As I was looking back on flagship/land-grant universities, I learned about sea, space and sun grant colleges. No big suprise, none of the Dakota schools are sea-grant colleges(30 schools; started in 1966), but UND is a space-grant college(52 consortia; started in 1988), and SDSU is one of five sun grant colleges(started in 2003) in addition to its land-grant status. Actually, SDSU is the lead program of the five.

For more information:

Land-grant university

Sea grant colleges

Space grant colleges

Sun grant colleges

Back on topic, sort of...

While I don't view a FBS move by NDSU as realistic in the near to short term, NDSU has to be about 10x more likely than UND to make the move within the same timeframe. It always boils down to the same thing: where's the conference? You've got two realistic choices in FBS conferences: MAC and WAC. The MAC has so-so geography, but it doesn't have much competitive appeal, and UND wouldn't really fit in(the smallest MAC school has over 20,000 in enrollment). The WAC would be a geographic nightmare, though UND would be only the third smallest. I like to talk about a FBS MVC, but as unlikely as they are to take NDSU anytime soon, UND's chances are probably in the negative, so long as UND basketball is considered a tertiary sport behind hockey and football. Finally, a few posters seem to forget that that athletic facilities master plan has a 30-50 year timeframe. Some of the projects listed in it may come soon, but others are decades away, if they even happen at all. Guess where that stadium comes in at. (BTW, the rendering for the outdoor stadium in the first draft of the plan was actually copied from the new Gopher stadium. Does anyone recognize where the architects grabbed the retractable roof stadium design from?)

Just an opinion.

[star2city]

I not sure your 30-50 yr. time frames are accurate. Rick Tonder sp? at UND Facilities is talking much shorter times if I hear him correctly. If the city would agree to build a practice facility at the Alerus and add seats UND would stay at the Al. If not wittin 5 yrs. Ralph #1 would be the site of a new practice facilityand within 10 yrs. the stadium addition would create a stadium with 20,000-25,000 seats. His attitude is that if you only fill it once a year for NDSU it works.

This will make for some interesting political discussion in Grand Forks.

[spearman]

Yes it will. When I asked Tonder how it would be paid for he said something like "30 yr. bonds".

This will make for some interesting political discussion in Grand Forks.

[The Sicatoka]

This will make for some interesting political discussion in Grand Forks.

The trial balloons have been out there for quite a while for those paying attention.

[nd1sufan]

I not sure your 30-50 yr. time frames are accurate. Rick Tonder sp? at UND Facilities is talking much shorter times if I hear him correctly. If the city would agree to build a practice facility at the Alerus and add seats UND would stay at the Al. If not wittin 5 yrs. Ralph #1 would be the site of a new practice facilityand within 10 yrs. the stadium addition would create a stadium with 20,000-25,000 seats. His attitude is that if you only fill it once a year for NDSU it works.

Kind of tough to base the feasability of a stadium on playing a team that is not on the schedule. I'm not sure you are going to get NDSU in that new stadium. However, even if they do it will be once every 2 years, not once a year.

Knowing UND's marketing strategy, they wouldn't fill it for an NDSU game either. If they follow the pricing strategy from the last UND-NDSU game, by that time they will be asking $200 a ticket.

[MplsBison]

Is "30 yr. bonds" the nickname of the man who would be donating 300 million to UND?

[GeauxSioux]

Is "30 yr. bonds" the nickname of the man who would be donating 300 million to UND?

Yeah, he's Barry's younger brother.

[The Sicatoka]

Yeah, he's Barry's younger brother.

No, no, he's Barry's cousin. He's this guy's brother.

[GeauxSioux]

No, no, he's Barry's cousin. He's this guy's brother.

I bow to your superior genealogical prowess.