How would you fix the CHA?

[siouxnami]

I really don't want to see the WCHA any bigger, in fact I would like to see it smaller.

I consider there to be 3 western leagues, CCHA, WCHA, and CHA. BSU and Wayne State are trying to get out of the CHA, in part because the league is on borrowed time with only five teams. I would suggest that strengthening the CHA is a better choice than further expanding the CCHA and WCHA. Here is what I would do.

1) Move MSU-M and AA to the CHA.

2) Move Nebraska-Omaha, LSSU, Bowling Green, and Ferris State to the CHA.

3) Sign 10 year home/home or alternating year series with all members of the CHA and the big name CCHA / WCHA school.

This would leave 8 teams in the WCHA, which would allow for a restoration of 4 games per year between some traditional rivals.

This would leave 8 teams in the CCHA, which would allow for a restoration of 4 games per year between some traditional rivals.

This would temporarily place 11 teams in the CHA, including some good rivalries. I suspect that a couple (at least one) of the CHA teams may move to an Eastern conference.

Because the all conferences would be at 10 or less, there is room for new programs to join D1. Most traditional rivalries would be kept, and the CHA would have good talent, good rivalries, and would be a legit conference. Some teams that are unlikely to never compete in their current conferences could develop in the new CHA.

So why MSU and AA? UND, UMTC, UW, UMD, MTU, DU, CC are long established traditional rivals. Of the 3 remaining teams SCSU is the most likely to be able to compete over the long run. Plus MSU has a good rivalry with UNO, which is why they would be good in a new conference.

I don't want to see the WCHA at 12 teams, I hate that we only played Tech, UMTC, Denver, and UMD one series this year. I wouldn't want to see that even more often. By signing long term contracts with the CHA teams, the integrity of their league and teams would be preserved.

What would you do? Would you want to see BSU in the WCHA?

[proudsioux]

Id like bemidji in wcha only cuz of the corner bar and crappy beer thursday in which they have it all out of whack. Can u beleiave thye got keystone in with the crappy beers?

[Goon]

Sioux 7 wrote this for my blog and got some serious flames;

Sioux_7 addresses expansion

Sioux_7

Here are the teams I think should move to the CHA

Mankato State haven't been it the WCHA for that long, and

location)

Northern Michigan location, and moved to CCHA from WCHA in 1993)

Lake Superior State (location)

This would make 10 teams in CCHA, 9 in WCHA, and 8 in CHA, so it would

be a little more balanced in terms of numbers.

The CHA would then be a better conference. For instance, nobody likes

to play Mankato, since they tend to surprise many times by splitting

series or taking 3-of-4 points when you least expect it. Northern

Michigan has a good history of winning in the NCAA tourney, the won it

all back in 1991. Same for Lake Superior State, they too have gone all

the way, twice (correct me if I'm wrong). As for the existing schools,

Bemidji has the most titles at any level for hockey, enough said.

Funny he mention MSU-M too. They aren't going to move though.

The only problem what do you do with 9 teams. Do you make the 9th placed team stay home.

Or do you give the first place team a bye? Not likely.

I think eventually your going to see UNO and BSU as members of the WCHA.

[siouxnami]

Funny he mention MSU-M too. They aren't going to move though.

The only problem what do you do with 9 teams. Do you make the 9th placed team stay home.

Or do you give the first place team a bye? Not likely.

I think eventually your going to see UNO and BSU as members of the WCHA.

Just like city league Basketball. 8 plays 9 and the 1 kills the winner immediately afterward.

[Goon]

Just like city league Basketball. 8 plays 9 and the 1 kills the winner immediately afterward.

That works for me.

[MafiaMan]

Sioux 7 wrote this for my blog and got some serious flames;

Sioux 7's Suggestion

Funny he mention MSU-M too. They aren't going to move though.

The only problem what do you do with 9 teams. Do you make the 9th placed team stay home.

Or do you give the first place team a bye? Not likely.

I think eventually your going to see UNO and BSU as members of the WCHA.

I'll correct him for being wrong. LSSU has won the national title 3 times (1988, 1992, and 1994) and was an OT goal away from having the most-recent three peat (they lost to Maine in 1993).

I'm also not sure of the logic of moving two of the more remote teams in terms of location (Marquette and Sault Ste Marie) into conferences which would require them to travel more than they do now.

[Goon]

I'll correct him for being wrong. LSSU has won the national title 3 times (1988, 1992, and 1994) and was an OT goal away from having the most-recent three peat (they lost to Maine in 1993).

I'm also not sure of the logic of moving two of the more remote teams in terms of location (Marquette and Sault Ste Marie) into conferences which would require them to travel more than they do now.

Don't shoot the messenger, I just put it out there to show what others are thinking.

I am on record as wanting UNO and BSU in the WCHA.

I do believe the NCAA is going to eventually say ok, if you guys want to keep the 16 seeds for the NCAA tourney your going to have to come up with a solution. Just MHMO

[MafiaMan]

Don't shoot the messenger, I just put it out there to show what others are thinking.

I wasn't correcting you, Goon, my comments were directed at Sioux_7.

[franchise]

I personally would like to see BSU in the WCHA because they should get better with more competition and have done fairly well at times against WCHA teams. Of course, I would also get to see much better hockey right in the backyard. It's tough to get excited with Robert Morris comes to town.

On a side note, I heard some rumor that we'd need to get the new arena built and come up with like $3 mil to get into the WCHA.

[Goon]

I personally would like to see BSU in the WCHA because they should get better with more competition and have done fairly well at times against WCHA teams. Of course, I would also get to see much better hockey right in the backyard. It's tough to get excited with Robert Morris comes to town.

On a side note, I heard some rumor that we'd need to get the new arena built and come up with like $3 mil to get into the WCHA.

Are you sure its 3 million, I heard it was two million?

[franchise]

Are you sure its 3 million, I heard it was two million?

You could very well be right. What's a million among rumors?

[Goon]

You could very well be right. What's a million among rumors?

Yeah that's true. I am wondering where are going to come up with that kind of money, BSU isn't a rich school and most of their facilities are old and run down.

They were when I went to school there and that was 1992.

[siouxnami]

Yeah that's true. I am wondering where are going to come up with that kind of money, BSU isn't a rich school and most of their facilities are old and run down.

They were when I went to school there and that was 1992.

Fire up Austin Powers: "One Hundred Billion Dollars..."

[Ba Ba Canoosh]

Send BSU to the CCHA. We don't need any more rodents in this league!!!

[farce poobah]

Let's create 2 leagues of 6 teams each. (The current 10 in the WCHA plus Bemidji and UNO.)

Put the top 6 in one league and the bottom 6 in the other league. Inter-conference scheduling means everyone will get home games (3x each in the top league and 2x each vs the other league, for a total of 27).

Win the bottom league and you get promoted to the top league. Finish last in the top league and you get demoted to the bottom league. Like football in Europe.

For UND, MN, it would mean the same # games against "top" rivals (in a 4-year cycle, we'd get 12 against MN either way).

By creating a second league, we create a second autobid. This means teams like Mankato, Tech, and UAA get an improved shot at making the Big Dance. Which is why they would sign up for this scheme.

Blast away....

[SportsDoc]

It is pure speculation to suggest who should leave the WCHA. Reality. No one is going to leave the WCHA. Why would you leave the best conference in the nation? MSU-M, AA and Tech have all had the ability to play with the best teams in the WCHA. And, it is still easier to recruit to the WCHA than it would be to CHA. We are going to have to look at adding teams, probably get to 12 if we add. Maybe then go to East and West halves for scheduling.

Other possibility would be to start a whole new, farther West, league. Could be a revamped CHA or completely new or be the new WCHA with the Big Ten going it alone. If anything like that would happen, UND would be looked at to move West in it. Along with both Alaska schools, both Colorado schools, AF, BSU, UNO. U of BC is broaching NCAA inclusion (though it's a long shot for many reasons), and they would play D-I hockey. Anyone here like that? ... Didn't think so. Exactly why no other current WCHA school is going to leave, and you can't just kick them out.

I think the only thing likely to happen in the next five years is expansion. Unless the Big Ten breaks away from WCHA and CCHA. Then all H - E - double hockey sticks breaks out! Don't think it's impossible. Remember when Notre Dame, Northern Michigan and Michigan were in the WCHA? I do.

[siouxnami]

Let's create 2 leagues of 6 teams each. (The current 10 in the WCHA plus Bemidji and UNO.)

Put the top 6 in one league and the bottom 6 in the other league. Inter-conference scheduling means everyone will get home games (3x each in the top league and 2x each vs the other league, for a total of 27).

Win the bottom league and you get promoted to the top league. Finish last in the top league and you get demoted to the bottom league. Like football in Europe.

For UND, MN, it would mean the same # games against "top" rivals (in a 4-year cycle, we'd get 12 against MN either way).

By creating a second league, we create a second autobid. This means teams like Mankato, Tech, and UAA get an improved shot at making the Big Dance. Which is why they would sign up for this scheme.

Blast away....

I've thought about this too, kind of like the English Premier League. But the problem is that teams change year to year becasue of recruiting / players leaving. So a very good SCSU in 2001 may look like crap in 2002.

[farce poobah]

I've thought about this too, kind of like the English Premier League. But the problem is that teams change year to year becasue of recruiting / players leaving. So a very good SCSU in 2001 may look like crap in 2002.

The biggest reason not to is what you said - it works in Premier League because there's relatively consistent personnel from year to year. (And more teams, so the schedules change less.)

The alternatives just aren't very palatable. Nobody will voluntarily just leave the WCHA. Forcing BSU out of D1 hockey, and denying their entrance into the WCHA would do just that (and slamming the door on any future teams out west) are not good for the game either. The trick is to bring teams into the WCHA without sacrificing traditional rivalries...

[DamStrait]

Bruce Mclod (misspelling intentional) was on this weekend between periods w/ Tim H. According to him, after MSU was added the league decided that any future addition would have to convincingly answer this question: How will your entering the league benefit the league? BSU cannot provide a convincing answer. They will not be joining the WCHA. This may be the first time ever that Mclod has gotten anything right. Don't get me wrong, I harbor no ill will towards BSU. They just aren't a good fit for the WCHA. Even with the new rink they are planning to build, it would still be the smallest rink in the league.

[nodakvindy]

I had thought about a relegation/promotion scenario as well, but pulling one team from the WCHA and three from the CCHA, so all three leagues would be at nine teams. The relegation/promotion would also occur only once every five years, with the bottom teams from the the CCHA and WCHA over that stretch moving to the CHA, while the top CHA team over that period would move to the league or their choice and the second place team would move to the other league. This allows you to maintain the core schools competing together and some of the other NCAA rules and helps create more stability for scheduling purposes. I know it has virtually no chance of happening, but it is probably one of the few places a European style relegation/promotion system could work.

[SportsDoc]

I had thought about a relegation/promotion scenario as well, but pulling one team from the WCHA and three from the CCHA, so all three leagues would be at nine teams. The relegation/promotion would also occur only once every five years, with the bottom teams from the the CCHA and WCHA over that stretch moving to the CHA, while the top CHA team over that period would move to the league or their choice and the second place team would move to the other league. This allows you to maintain the core schools competing together and some of the other NCAA rules and helps create more stability for scheduling purposes. I know it has virtually no chance of happening, but it is probably one of the few places a European style relegation/promotion system could work.

No, it has NO chance of happening. Take out virtually.

[Big A HG]

Maybe leave the CCHA and WCHA as is...and add some good D-3 programs in the midwest to the CHA. I know Wisconsin has like 3 alone that are top 5 or top 10 teams nationally. #1 St. Norbert is by Green Bay, WI. #4 Wisconsin - River Falls is right by the border of Minnesota. #7 Wisconsin - Stout is a half hour across the border. They might struggle at first, but recruiting will increase in the long run and bring them up to CHA standards. I honestly don't know the talent level of these D-3 schools, but, I think it has the potential to create some interconference rivalries as well, yet doesn't affect the CCHA and WCHA any more than they already have been in the past.

Just a thought.

[mksioux]

Maybe leave the CCHA and WCHA as is...and add some good D-3 programs in the midwest to the CHA. I know Wisconsin has like 3 alone that are top 5 or top 10 teams nationally. #1 St. Norbert is by Green Bay, WI. #4 Wisconsin - River Falls is right by the border of Minnesota. #7 Wisconsin - Stout is a half hour across the border. They might struggle at first, but recruiting will increase in the long run and bring them up to CHA standards. I honestly don't know the talent level of these D-3 schools, but, I think it has the potential to create some interconference rivalries as well, yet doesn't affect the CCHA and WCHA any more than they already have been in the past.

Just a thought.

My understanding is that the CHA has done all it could to try to convince DIII and Club schools to move up to DI and join the CHA, but has not had any success.

Title IX is the real culprit here. If a school could add DI mens hockey without having to add a womens program as well, the CHA would have easily been able to find a replacement to keep its auto-bid alive.

[Big A HG]

My understanding is that the CHA has done all it could to try to convince DIII and Club schools to move up to DI and join the CHA, but has not had any success.

Title IX is the real culprit here. If a school could add DI mens hockey without having to add a womens program as well, the CHA would have easily been able to find a replacement to keep its auto-bid alive.

Is it just be or does that Title IX BS need some revamping. I know of more than one schools with multiple sports capable of playing decent within a conference, but are stuck at the "club" level because of Title IX. They should allow more teams to play, and then when the women put together a sport that they want to compete, they can automatically create a team. I dunno, that doesn't make a ton of sense either, but I hate how a stupid rule like that can prevent so much.