The Whistler Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 Last year the city lost $720,000 in the "event" fund, and won't tell us where aside from a $250,000 loss on the Neil Diamond concert. Shouldn't we know? They also lost the entire $380,000 raised with the hospitality tax. Now that's acceptable to use it for small subsidies but it leaves no money to handle routine maintenance like replacing the carpets. They also got a $600,000 injection of capital that was to go to upgrades on the building. They apparently paid for some Sioux banners and I couldn't tell what else we got for our money. (The outside banners are gone.) At the end of the year it came out that there was money loaned (from the city) to the Alerus in the amount of $872,000. The city council claimed they didn't know anything about it. They wrote that amount off this year. This year the city council through six million dollars more into the Alerus. We paid for those video boards because Steve Hyman said it would bring in $100-300K. They still only have the bud light and Altru ads (that we've had for years. In other words, we're not getting any additional revenue months after they should have been selling ads) They're going to rebuild the convention entry which makes me wonder why they let CanadInn tear it out. The comment about the Armory is looking at it the wrong way. That ($150,000)subsidy was all it was costing us(for the Armory). The Alerus cost us $8,000,000 last year. ($380,000 hospitality tax, $720,000 losses in the "event fund", $6.9 million for 3/4 sales tax on GF taxable sales) I'm trying to stick to facts in this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goon Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 I'm wondering if "Siouxmenow" lives in GF? I know I do and have for to many years. If the Alerus loses money every year then it will cost us money in the form of property taxes and other things that have to make up for the lose. then it isn't a big deal if the year generates even tiny profit. Of course this is only my opinion. Apparently Siouxmenow has a hard time understanding this concept. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goon Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 So who would that be....you? and what "cheerleader" from the Herald wrote it? Seemed pretty balanced with both the pros and cons. How much money has the Alerus cost you personally? MONEY out of your pocket Goon? SERIOUSLY?? You can't prove it has cost you a single dime and you know it! Do you even live within GF city limits??? You also can't ignore the city-wide economic impact numbers and they are big. (PSSST...we're still PAYING for the building, remember? EVERYONE who comes to town and stays in a hotel, eats in a restaurant, goes shopping, etc...pays SALES TAX that pays for the lions share of this building - SWEET!! Note to Goon: OUT OF TOWNERS are paying for the majority of this great facility that brings people to town....it's a NO BRAINER!) The year to year operational costs are chump-change and I'm glad the management is taking some chances and bringing big shows to GF...it helps tourism, brings $$$ to GF, and puts us on the map as a progressive place to live. We used to pour $150,000+ every year into the old Civic and no one complained about that but we also had NOTHING to show for it...where were you then? The cheer leader is Tu-Uyen Tran. SiouxMeNow; you're probably what I call a zero sum gain person, one of the people that pay nothing in the form of taxes, probably a career college student that voted for OBAMA and chastise anyone that didn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiouxMeNow Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 The cheer leader is Tu-Uyen Tran. SiouxMeNow; you're probably what I call a zero sum gain person, one of the people that pay nothing in the form of taxes, probably a career college student that voted for OBAMA and chastise anyone that didn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farce poobah Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 Seriously, if you owned a house in this town you would know that taxes have gone up every year. Seriously, the city is over inflated the value of our houses so they can assess more taxes to pay for the over grown grain bin known as the Alerus. If you think that I am full of it go to this page and run some of the properties and see how much people pay in taxes. Our home is half the price of my sister Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siouxperseven Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 FINALLY! The Curtain has been pulled away from "goon" to reveal he MIGHT be the biggest knee-jerk reactionary ever (luckily) elected to the GF city council...TERRY BIERKE! (seriously - I'd like to know because I had no idea a knuckledragger like that neanderthal could learn to type ) FYI GOON! - I've lived in GF for over 25 years. Came here as a UND student in the mid-80's and STAYED. (That says something in itself!) I've been a proud tax-paying homeowner in GF since 1998 - and HAPPILY payed my property taxes because I know WHAT i'm getting for my money! (Yes - TAX MONEY I'm willing to PAY for certain things)...such as.... --The Flood of '97! I was here during the flood...IT SUCKED! I fully supported the Flood Control Project we finally have in place - even though - OUCH - it cost me MONEY? Well it left us with a protection that left us LAUGHING 11 years later while Fargo was sweating bullets trying to save their town last spring? (and they did it WITH GF'S help but that's another story) Seems like a good investment to me.... --The RALPH! (FREE to taxpayers because of the generosity of an Alum - nice for us!) -- and the AL! An Indoor Football Facility that has propelled UND into the DI world where we would NEVER have been able to do it with just an outdoor stadium. As I've mentioned before....we payed through the nose for the crappy old Civic - I have no problem writing the difference in my property taxes for the difference for the Al..because it brings SO MUCH quality of life to GF! Concerts, trade shows, events, football games - everything! GF is WAY AHEAD of things with TWO great public facilities in a town of 50,000 people - Fargo barely makes money with the Fargobarn with 3X the metro population! The point is - we're pretty LUCKY facility-wise in little GF here IMO!! That's my entire point... PS - MY homes value in GF has increased from the $80,000 we payed in 1998 to over $110,000 in 2009....don't know where you live buy maybe you should move to Prior Lake if you're "suffering" so much here...what's keeping you here? I just get so TIRED of the constant BITCHING ABOUT HOW BAD THINGS ARE HERE! If you don't like it....MOVE!!!!! Wow...seems like a lot of hostility here. Though I don't always agree with Goon's opinion the great thing is that we each get to have one. And on this subject I tend to agree with him more. Both good points but SiouxMeNow..a little less mudslingin. I do not agree that we needed two facilites of this size but it is what it is. I will say though that the Canad is a great addition and makes the Alerus a little better but I guess we help pay for the Canad Inn too. I better stop typing or I might even want to move. I'm already wondering why I live here when I have to coach my son's FB game tomorrow...October 10th...and it'll be 26 degree's at 9 am. As for property taxes my lake place which is far nicer than my home is alot less. but at least we have the greenway to enjoy and get some bang for our buck here. Go Sioux!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 Seriously, if you owned a house in this town you would know that taxes have gone up every year. That's every town. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND92,96 Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 That's every town. But at least in North Dakota, we don't need to worry about scrambling to make up for state budget cuts by raising property taxes the maximum amount under state law, like what's going on across the river. Personally, I much prefer the relative stability of the overall North Dakota tax situation. We pay higher property taxes, but we pay low state income taxes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goon Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 For example, are Grand Forks property taxes out of line compared to Fargo ... I used my sister's home as an example but I was shocked to find out a few ears back that Fargo's taxes weren't as high as Grand Forks, ND. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goon Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 That's every town. Doesn't make it right. Just saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goon Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 FINALLY! The Curtain has been pulled away from "goon" to reveal he MIGHT be the biggest knee-jerk reactionary ever (luckily) elected to the GF city council...TERRY BIERKE! (seriously - I'd like to know because I had no idea a knuckledragger like that neanderthal could learn to type ) We get it you're a big government Liberal. So now Terry Bjerke is a knuckle dragger because he wants responsible government. Oh so let me get this straight, OBAMA and Liberal good, Conservative = no good. FYI GOON! - I've lived in GF for over 25 years. Came here as a UND student in the mid-80's and STAYED. (That says something in itself!) I've been a proud tax-paying homeowner in GF since 1998 - and HAPPILY payed my property taxes because I know WHAT i'm getting for my money! (Yes - TAX MONEY I'm willing to PAY for certain things)...such as.... Good for you do you want a meda?l I have lived in Grand Forks since 1993 and I stayed here so what is your point? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray77 Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 I used my sister's home as an example but I was shocked to find out a few ears back that Fargo's taxes weren't as high as Grand Forks, ND. Are you sure that's the case about GF vs Fargo? I don't know, I'm just asking how you know that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goon Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 Are you sure that's the case about GF vs Fargo? I don't know, I'm just asking how you know that. I have talked to my friends that live their. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray77 Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 I have talked to my friends that live their. Ahh...I'll have to check with family in GF. I know GF has increased recently, but I was still under the impression that GF was "cheaper" than Fargo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGSIOUX Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 as stated, the genius Body Ventura really had everybody fooled w/ the LGA/low property tax law. Thats apples and oranges now to compare mn to nd for tax rates. My friend in moorhead only pays 1900 a year in taxes on a lot on the river. I pay 3300. His income tax is likely 50% higher than mine. Ill take the extra couple thousand i pay in property tax, and know im not going to lose services like he is because my city has to get its money from the state. I cant understand why anyone making more than 35k would live in EGF before GF. You save on property tax, but its a net loss on income tax. GF is cheap, dont kid yourselves. The alerus, while not operating in the black, is still a valuable assest and commodity here in grand forks, and a reason to retain young people that build the tax pool. Alerus=more visitors=more hotels=more jobs=housing prices rise=more tax dollars. There is a reason people have polled to be more "attached" to grand forks than in the past, because there is more to do. I'll happily pay my tax bill, and continue to enjoy the amenitites our city provides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stromer Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 We get it you're a big government Liberal. So now Terry Bjerke is a knuckle dragger because he wants responsible government. Oh so let me get this straight, OBAMA and Liberal good, Conservative = no good. This really isn't an issue of liberal vs conservative. I am one of the most conservative people I know but I support the Alerus 100%. So its not as easy as just drawing lines in the sand like you are trying to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stromer Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 FINALLY! The Curtain has been pulled away from "goon" to reveal he MIGHT be the biggest knee-jerk reactionary ever (luckily) elected to the GF city council...TERRY BIERKE! (seriously - I'd like to know because I had no idea a knuckledragger like that neanderthal could learn to type ) FYI GOON! - I've lived in GF for over 25 years. Came here as a UND student in the mid-80's and STAYED. (That says something in itself!) I've been a proud tax-paying homeowner in GF since 1998 - and HAPPILY payed my property taxes because I know WHAT i'm getting for my money! (Yes - TAX MONEY I'm willing to PAY for certain things)...such as.... --The Flood of '97! I was here during the flood...IT SUCKED! I fully supported the Flood Control Project we finally have in place - even though - OUCH - it cost me MONEY? Well it left us with a protection that left us LAUGHING 11 years later while Fargo was sweating bullets trying to save their town last spring? (and they did it WITH GF'S help but that's another story) Seems like a good investment to me.... --The RALPH! (FREE to taxpayers because of the generosity of an Alum - nice for us!) -- and the AL! An Indoor Football Facility that has propelled UND into the DI world where we would NEVER have been able to do it with just an outdoor stadium. As I've mentioned before....we payed through the nose for the crappy old Civic - I have no problem writing the difference in my property taxes for the difference for the Al..because it brings SO MUCH quality of life to GF! Concerts, trade shows, events, football games - everything! GF is WAY AHEAD of things with TWO great public facilities in a town of 50,000 people - Fargo barely makes money with the Fargobarn with 3X the metro population! The point is - we're pretty LUCKY facility-wise in little GF here IMO!! That's my entire point... PS - MY homes value in GF has increased from the $80,000 we payed in 1998 to over $110,000 in 2009....don't know where you live buy maybe you should move to Prior Lake if you're "suffering" so much here...what's keeping you here? I just get so TIRED of the constant BITCHING ABOUT HOW BAD THINGS ARE HERE! If you don't like it....MOVE!!!!! Can't say I normally agree with you but this is spot on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goon Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 This really isn't an issue of liberal vs conservative. I am one of the most conservative people I know but I support the Alerus 100%. So its not as easy as just drawing lines in the sand like you are trying to do. When Siouxmenow said that Terry Bjerke was a knuckle dragger he pretty much drew the lines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goon Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 -- and the AL! An Indoor Football Facility that has propelled UND into the DI world where we would NEVER have been able to do it with just an outdoor stadium. I actually think the Alerus is a horrible venue for football, I know a lot of people that think the place is stale and a horrible place to watch football, In fact I will take an upgraded Memorial Stadium any day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND92,96 Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 Regarding property taxes in Fargo and Grand Forks, I was curious so I went to each county's web site, and compared property taxes for two homes which were assessed at values within $1000 of each other. Even including the dike assessment which we pay in GF, and which presumably Fargo people will be hit with soon, the GF tax bill was actually about $60 lower. So IMO, if you're really comparing apples to apples, i.e. two homes with nearly identical values, taxes are NOT higher in Grand Forks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goon Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 Regarding property taxes in Fargo and Grand Forks, I was curious so I went to each county's web site, and compared property taxes for two homes which were assessed at values within $1000 of each other. Even including the dike assessment which we pay in GF, and which presumably Fargo people will be hit with soon, the GF tax bill was actually about $60 lower. So IMO, if you're really comparing apples to apples, i.e. two homes with nearly identical values, taxes are NOT higher in Grand Forks. You might want to compare houses and their values of the two cities. Grand Forks house seem to be more over priced. Just saying. My wife's aunt built a new house in Fargo a few years ago for about 90,000 and that same house would probably cost a lot more in Grand Forks, ND. Maybe we are comparing apples to oranges or apples to apples. The fact remains that the Alerus center is a drain on the city no matter how you slice it. I think the main point is the city is playing loose with our money and Whistler has done a pretty good job breaking down the issues over on Say anything blog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGSIOUX Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 You might want to compare houses and their values of the two cities. Grand Forks house seem to be more over priced. Just saying. My wife's aunt built a new house in Fargo a few years ago for about 90,000 and that same house would probably cost a lot more in Grand Forks, ND. Maybe we are comparing apples to oranges or apples to apples. The fact remains that the Alerus center is a drain on the city no matter how you slice it. I think the main point is the city is playing loose with our money and Whistler has done a pretty good job breaking down the issues over on Say anything blog. that is not fact, goon, but opinion. Does it lose money operationally. Yes Is it a net positive for economic stimulus. Yes Its just semantics, the sewer system costs more than it makes, do you want to implode that too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND92,96 Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 I actually think the Alerus is a horrible venue for football, I know a lot of people that think the place is stale and a horrible place to watch football, In fact I will take an upgraded Memorial Stadium any day. Just curious, do you actually regularly attend UND football games? I've been to every game since the Alerus opened, and I was at every game at Memorial in the 1990's and much of the 1980's, and I certainly wouldn't want to go back to playing football at Memorial whether it was renovated or not. I have to assume most people agree given the difference in attendance at the Alerus compared to Memorial. If tomorrow's game were at Memorial, attendance would be anywhere from 3000 to maybe 5000 tops. Indoors, it will be at least 10,500. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goon Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 that is not fact, goon, but opinion. Does it lose money operationally. Yes Is it a net positive for economic stimulus. Yes Its just semantics, the sewer system costs more than it makes, do you want to implode that too? Let see the center lost $256,600.00 + 97,000.00 = 353,600.00 so where does that money come from? That's not a drain on the city? Who pays for that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 Want something to be pissed about? NDSU's new Barry Hall is $3 million over budget. That has to be covered by the State of North Dakota. It'll cost people in GF more per person to cover that than the losses at the Spears concert. http://forum.siouxsports.com/index.php?sho...20&start=20 $3 million / 600k NDans = ~$5 per. $97k / 50k GFers = ~$2 per. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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