Thoughts about a settlement

[dmksioux]

What are the chances UND and the NCAA reach some sort of settlement prior to the April court date? There seems to be some support (depending on who you ask) among the Sioux tribes, and I would guess that UND will continue to work on growing these relationships. We also have the current resolution from the Spirit Lake tribe which in effect supports the name. Now that the courts have issued the injunction, would the NCAA consider a probationary period for UND which would allow them to work with the Sioux Tribal governments and see if a consensus on the name, one way or the other, can be reached. The NCAA claims they wanted to create a dialogue, so perhaps here's there chance to let that play out?

[redwing77]

What are the chances UND and the NCAA reach some sort of settlement prior to the April court date? There seems to be some support (depending on who you ask) among the Sioux tribes, and I would guess that UND will continue to work on growing these relationships. We also have the current resolution from the Spirit Lake tribe which in effect supports the name. Now that the courts have issued the injunction, would the NCAA consider a probationary period for UND which would allow them to work with the Sioux Tribal governments and see if a consensus on the name, one way or the other, can be reached. The NCAA claims they wanted to create a dialogue, so perhaps here's there chance to let that play out?

I think the chances fall somewhere between Slim and None. If the NCAA settles, that would still make the policy basically unenforceable and practically null and void. Brand and Harrison would never stand for it.

The only slim chance it would be is if the NCAA thought UND was "running away" with the Court and felt that the loss was inevitable and they wished to save something.

Is the monetary damages UND suing for $2.6 million or $2.6 billion or am I completely off? I don't see $2.6 million as being all that costly to the NCAA. They should have gone for something substantial, like 75% of that TV contract's profit margin.

[mksioux]

The only way I see the NCAA backing off on this is if the Standing Rock Tribe comes out unequivocally in favor of the nickname. That, along with the Spirit Lake resolution, would probably be enough for the NCAA to remove UND from the list.

However, even if that were to happen, UND may not want to settle the case because it would leave the fate of the nickname up to the whim of changing tribal governments. The question would be whether UND would continue to have standing to challenge the policy in court if it is removed from the list. Without having thought about that issue much, I think the answer is yes, because the exemption would be merely temporary in nature and the terms of the exemption would be beyond the control of UND. So the policy would still have a negative impact on UND even if it were removed from the list.

With the current facts, I don't see a settlement happening. I suppose it's always possible, but it takes two parties that want to settle the case before a settlement becomes a possibility. I've seen nothing from the NCAA that would indicate they are the slightest bit interested in settling.

[star2city]

With the current facts, I don't see a settlement happening. I suppose it's always possible, but it takes two parties that want to settle the case before a settlement becomes a possibility. I've seen nothing from the NCAA that would indicate they are the slightest bit interested in settling.

The NCAA leadership is too prideful to settle with a "hick", no-name, non-elitist school like UND.

IMHO, impugning Engelstad's character and mocking the REA are more important NCAA goals than getting at UND itself. The NCAA wants to send a message to all potential major athletic donors, especially at mid-major schools, that it will not tolerate threats to the current power status. The NCAA and its power schools do not want lower level schools "buying" championships with facilities (that exceed theirs). Ironically, UND hasn't won a championship since the REA was built.

[jloos]

Tribal government is more volatile than anything you can imagine. Standing Rock is one of the worse examples. UND could reach an agreement with the tribe and two weeks later a new leader will emerge at Standing Rock and do a 180 on whatever was agreed. Spirit Lake is a little more stable and has many ties to UND. However, UND has previously reached an agreement with Spirit Lake and they still came out against the name, then came out for it, then against it, now they are kind of for it again, maybe.

UND has done more for Native students than nearly any university in the country. I think they should continue to do so, regardless of the name issue.

Helping Native students and helping the tribe are not the same. UND needs to be very careful when dealing with tribal government. Unfortunately some tribal leaders do not see how helping Native students help them.

[ScottM]

Tribal government is more volatile than anything you can imagine. Standing Rock is one of the worse examples. UND could reach an agreement with the tribe and two weeks later a new leader will emerge at Standing Rock and do a 180 on whatever was agreed. Spirit Lake is a little more stable and has many ties to UND. However, UND has previously reached an agreement with Spirit Lake and they still came out against the name, then came out for it, then against it, now they are kind of for it again, maybe.

UND has done more for Native students than nearly any university in the country. I think they should continue to do so, regardless of the name issue.

Helping Native students and helping the tribe are not the same. UND needs to be very careful when dealing with tribal government. Unfortunately some tribal leaders do not see how helping Native students help them.

Regardless of any tribal governmental issues, any settlement talks will probably be based on what happens in discovery. If I were representing the State, I would be salivating over reviewing, and presenting, NC$$ emails, voice mails, phone logs, internal documents, correspondence, etc. related to this policy, and how it was implemented, to demonstrate how far Brand & Co. have deviated from their charter, and their agreement with UND and possibly other schools. As well, I think Myles and Franklin would not make very good deponents, or witnesses under cross.

I don't think the NC$$ really wants all of its dirty laundry shown to its member schools, Congress and maybe even the IRS. If there is a settlement, I think tribal "consent" for UND to use its name/logo should not be on the table at all, and not part of any agreeement.

[Chewey]

I do not think a settlement would be in the best interests of UND in the long run. If any settlement were reached it would be crucial to have it be approved and signed off by the Court so that res judicata would prohibit the NC00 from bringing it up again in the future. Any settlement would just otherwise postpone the matter to some future point in time when the NC00, believing that the alumni have lost their collective spine and assuming that UND does not have a AG with guts, would bring it up again. The machinery has been set in motion and there is momentum and publicity that is positive for UND. Those are assets that should not be lightly disregarded, especially where, as in this matter, there are very cogent and persuasive arguments, unless there is one heck of a settlement. Settling with the NC00 would be akin to making a deal with a snake oil salesman.

[dmksioux]

Tribal government is more volatile than anything you can imagine. Standing Rock is one of the worse examples. UND could reach an agreement with the tribe and two weeks later a new leader will emerge at Standing Rock and do a 180 on whatever was agreed. Spirit Lake is a little more stable and has many ties to UND. However, UND has previously reached an agreement with Spirit Lake and they still came out against the name, then came out for it, then against it, now they are kind of for it again, maybe.

UND has done more for Native students than nearly any university in the country. I think they should continue to do so, regardless of the name issue.

Helping Native students and helping the tribe are not the same. UND needs to be very careful when dealing with tribal government. Unfortunately some tribal leaders do not see how helping Native students help them.

So does anyone know if the FSU exemption will need to be reapproved after so many years or have they been granted an indefinite exemption.

[Goon]

Regardless of any tribal governmental issues, any settlement talks will probably be based on what happens in discovery. If I were representing the State, I would be salivating over reviewing, and presenting, NC$$ emails, voice mails, phone logs, internal documents, correspondence, etc. related to this policy, and how it was implemented, to demonstrate how far Brand & Co. have deviated from their charter, and their agreement with UND and possibly other schools. As well, I think Myles and Franklin would not make very good deponents, or witnesses under cross.

I guess this is a question for the Lawyers, can lawyers get this stuff without them putting it through the shredder and erasing it from the hard drives at the NCAA offices? Do they have to give this stuff up if the Lawyers ask for it, and if not do they get sanctioned for it?

I do not think a settlement would be in the best interests of UND in the long run. If any settlement were reached it would be crucial to have it be approved and signed off by the Court so that res judicata would prohibit the NC00 from bringing it up again in the future. Any settlement would just otherwise postpone the matter to some future point in time when the NC00, believing that the alumni have lost their collective spine and assuming that UND does not have a AG with guts, would bring it up again. The machinery has been set in motion and there is momentum and publicity that is positive for UND. Those are assets that should not be lightly disregarded, especially where, as in this matter, there are very cogent and persuasive arguments, unless there is one heck of a settlement. Settling with the NC00 would be akin to making a deal with a snake oil salesman.

I agree, we do not compromise with these people, period end of discussion. We shouldn't have to, we would be accepting fault in this issue. I don't think we have done anything wrong. Never. I think the NCAA has way over stepped its bounds in this decision and is going to have to pay the piper eventually. I am hoping Myles Brand gets fired eventually. Especially because it appears that he is basing his legacy on this issue.

I think this issue eventually it will go away if this gets settled in court. I mean your always going to have your protesters. Let them protest its their first amendment right. I think some of the other schools are sitting on the side line waiting to see what happens before they act. Let the NCAA take this to the Executive Council then the NCAA is going to get push back from the Big Schools like FSU. They can't say hey some schools are ok, but UND screw you your logo is hositle especially when some of the schools given exemptions are on shaky ground. What happens if CMU gets some serious pushback from the Michigan Chippewas? They have the same level of support as UND. Also, we say that Utah wasn't even holding its end of the deal up on their agreement with the ute's tribe. Its either one way where the logo and names are ok or everyone goes and its not going to happen. Just a hunch. I am thinking the NCAA is going to be looking for a way to get out of this with out looking all that stupid.

[HockeyMom]

I have a t-shirt that says:

Never Settle

on the front if it.

*puts it on and points at UND*

Or maybe I should have the avatar put it on her Magnadoodle......

[Tsiouxnami]

This may be a rather dumb question, but, if the NCAA gets their way (which, I don't think they will), and UND has to change the nickname. . . . . how can they force the issue with REA? Is REA a seperate entity, or is it owned and run by the school? (If it is owned/run by the school, nevermind my argument here.) On the other hand, if it isn't, then why could it NOT be the RE Fighting Sioux Arena, with all the logos left intact? Would the NCAA tell UND that they can't play there?

[UND92,96]

This may be a rather dumb question, but, if the NCAA gets their way (which, I don't think they will), and UND has to change the nickname. . . . . how can they force the issue with REA? Is REA a seperate entity, or is it owned and run by the school? (If it is owned/run by the school, nevermind my argument here.) On the other hand, if it isn't, then why could it NOT be the RE Fighting Sioux Arena, with all the logos left intact? Would the NCAA tell UND that they can't play there?

There really wouldn't be any way to force REA to do anything, and I don't think REA would ever alter or cover up any logos. Besides not awarding another regional to UND/REA, there wouldn't be anything the NCAA could do about it to my knowledge. Keep in mind that the NCAA sanctions only apply to post-season events.

[Goon]

This may be a rather dumb question, but, if the NCAA gets their way (which, I don't think they will), and UND has to change the nickname. . . . . how can they force the issue with REA? Is REA a seperate entity, or is it owned and run by the school? (If it is owned/run by the school, nevermind my argument here.) On the other hand, if it isn't, then why could it NOT be the RE Fighting Sioux Arena, with all the logos left intact? Would the NCAA tell UND that they can't play there?

That is a very good question. What do they do.

[SportsDoc]

This may be a rather dumb question, but, if the NCAA gets their way (which, I don't think they will), and UND has to change the nickname. . . . . how can they force the issue with REA? Is REA a seperate entity, or is it owned and run by the school? (If it is owned/run by the school, nevermind my argument here.) On the other hand, if it isn't, then why could it NOT be the RE Fighting Sioux Arena, with all the logos left intact? Would the NCAA tell UND that they can't play there?

The NCAA is not telling UND that it cannot play at REA and it is not telling UND they cannot be the Fighting Sioux. They are telling UND that they cannot be the Fighting Sioux or use any Native American imagery during NCAA sanctioned post-season events.

So, REA can stay and keep all it's logos and other Native American imagery. It cannot, any longer, be awarded any NCAA sponsored post-season events. This is curently an issue for the women's BB team, but at this point, not an issue with the hockey team, since the NCAA now has a provision that NCAA Regional and Frozen Four Hockey events are to be held at neutral sites. Unless that changes (and it could), the Ralph will not see another NCAA Hockey Regional regardless of the outcome of the law suit.

[southpaw]

This may be a rather dumb question, but, if the NCAA gets their way (which, I don't think they will), and UND has to change the nickname. . . . . how can they force the issue with REA? Is REA a seperate entity, or is it owned and run by the school? (If it is owned/run by the school, nevermind my argument here.) On the other hand, if it isn't, then why could it NOT be the RE Fighting Sioux Arena, with all the logos left intact? Would the NCAA tell UND that they can't play there?

i believe there is a clause in ralph's will that says the arena will be imploded.

[Sioux-cia]

i believe there is a clause in ralph's will that says the arena will be imploded.

[HockeyMom]

i believe there is a clause in ralph's will that says the arena will be imploded.

"Yeah right and pretty soon monkeys........" Dieter- Dieter's Dance Party- SNL.

[Tommiejo]

Hey HockeyMom: We can agree on one thing. NEVER SETTLE. The day the NC$$ comes up with an out of court settlement is when hell freezes over & the devil goes ice skating. Also HockeyMom tell your friend from Florida State the the GATORS are going to chomp on those dame seminoles. GO GATORS.

SIOUX FAN SINCE 1973.