NCCA denies another appeal

[PCM]

From USA Today:

NCAA denies William & Mary appeal in logo ruling

The NCAA has denied William & Mary's appeal of a ruling that prohibits it from using its logo showing two Indian feathers at NCAA championship events or from hosting NCAA tournament games where the logo would be displayed.

The news came Thursday in a letter from the NCAA Executive Committee, affirming a May decision that the green and gold logo is hostile or offensive to American Indians.

"Hostile and offensive"? Where's that wording come from?

"We strongly disagree with the decision by the Executive Committee and find it absurd that the NCAA continues to target William and Mary

[sioux7>5]

From USA Today:

NCAA denies William & Mary appeal in logo ruling

"Hostile and offensive"? Where's that wording come from?

[ScottM]

Once again, the NC$$ changes rules to suit its own devices.

[Sioux-cia]

I certainly hope Wm & Mary doesn't roll over on this one. But, I have to admit, I expect them too. After having read their initial appeal, they appeared to place themseves above the other institutions that lost their appeals. (My read.)

[PCM]

I think it's an "every school for itself" situation because each school has different strengths and weaknesses in its arguments. Ideally, it would be best if all the schools opposed to the NCAA would speak with one voice. As a practical matter, I don't see that happening.

The NCAA has successfully used a divide and conquer strategy. Whether this was planned or it just worked out that way is anyone's guess. (I don't want to give Brand and Harrison too much credit.) By giving exemptions to a few schools, putting Bradley on probation and giving Illinois and William & Mary part of what they wanted while other schools completely caved in, the NCAA has made it very difficult for the few schools left in opposition to assume a united front.

UND's case, unfortunately, will have to sink or swim on its own merits.

[DI IN FARGO]

I would have thought they would have had a much better chance at winning any appeal or pursuing it even further if they chose to then you guys do. I mean really two stinking feathers and the NCAA is up in arms about it, I have to agree thats a joke. Unlike the nickname "fighting sioux" and the Indian head logo, from the NCAA' perspective that's a much tougher battle then two feathers IMHO.

[PCM]

I would have thought they would have had a much better chance at winning any appeal or pursuing it even further if they chose to then you guys do. I mean really two stinking feathers and the NCAA is up in arms about it, I have to agree thats a joke. Unlike the nickname "fighting sioux" and the Indian head logo, from the NCAA' perspective that's a much tougher battle then two feathers IMHO.

The appeals process became a joke the moment the NCAA gave Florida State a pass. Trying to find a rationale in it is pointless because there isn't any. The NCAA simply does what it wants to do for whatever reason it chooses to concoct at the moment. Unfortunately, it will be up to the courts to determine whether the NCAA can ignore its own rules and break contracts with its members after taking their money or if it must adhere to some type of standard.

[Sioux-cia]

IMHO, the problem has nothing to do with which name, logo and/or mascot is not/less/very hostile or abusive. The problem is that the NC$$ has no business/authority to tell any school 'change your name/logo/mascot or suffer the economic consequences'. This premise applys to all the schools on the list of shame and has been and is the basis of all the appeals and the upcoming lawsuit.

[Chief Illiniwek Supporter]

If the symbol was one that was associated with any other type of "tribe", I wonder if the NCAA would have a problem with it?

Can anyone here tell me if North Dakota has ever had an opponent refuse to play them because of the nickname/symbolism? I can tell you that a few people have made some noise about the Illini (some people associated with the University of Oregon) but AFAIK no game has ever been cancelled, or even not scheduled.

[dmksioux]

If the symbol was one that was associated with any other type of "tribe", I wonder if the NCAA would have a problem with it?

Can anyone here tell me if North Dakota has ever had an opponent refuse to play them because of the nickname/symbolism? I can tell you that a few people have made some noise about the Illini (some people associated with the University of Oregon) but AFAIK no game has ever been cancelled, or even not scheduled.

I could be wrong but I believe the Michigan Wolverines are a school that will not play opponents with Native American mascot/nicknames...not sure if I heard it or read it. The only time I remember the Sioux playing them has been in tournaments (in the last 10 or so years).

On a related note, they do continue to play Notre Dame on an annual basis.

[Sioux-cia]

I could be wrong but I believe the Michigan Wolverines are a school that will not play opponents with Native American mascot/nicknames...not sure if I heard it or read it. The only time I remember the Sioux playing them has been in tournaments (in the last 10 or so years).

On a related note, they do continue to play Notre Dame on an annual basis.

Why would it be ok to play us in the play offs and not during the regular season? If what you say is true, they're hypocrites.

[Redneksioux]

Doesn't Wisconsin do this as well? They only play us because they're required to play scheduled WCHA games, right? I can't remember who told me that, but I've heard it somewhere.

[ScottM]

I could be wrong but I believe the Michigan Wolverines are a school that will not play opponents with Native American mascot/nicknames...not sure if I heard it or read it. The only time I remember the Sioux playing them has been in tournaments (in the last 10 or so years).

On a related note, they do continue to play Notre Dame on an annual basis.

I believe that comes from a Big 10 policy, but it allows exceptions for conference opponents, etc. I am not sure if the CCHA or any other hockey conference has such a stupid rule. Moreover, I really doubt Michigan would turn down the $$$ to not play Florida State in the Fiesta Bowl or Rose Bowl.

[dmksioux]

I believe that comes from a Big 10 policy, but it allows exceptions for conference opponents, etc. I am not sure if the CCHA or any other hockey conference has such a stupid rule. Moreover, I really doubt Michigan would turn down the $$$ to not play Florida State in the Fiesta Bowl or Rose Bowl.

This link talks about schools from the NCC and WCHA who have passed resolutions pertaining to Native American mascots. You can scroll down to the U of Wisconsin to see the resolution, or summary of it.

http://www.UND.nodak.edu/org/bridges/passed.html

It seems as though UND and Illinois get a pass due to being in the same conference

[The Sicatoka]

Let's finish this sentence accurately:

It seems as though UND and Illinois get a pass due to being in the same conference

and because the money is good.

[Sioux-cia]

Much like the NC$$, there are times when it's hostile or abusive and there are other times when the almighty dollar rules.

UNIVERSITY OF WISCONSIN ATHLETIC DEPARTMENT

POLICY ON NATIVE AMERICAN LOGOS AND NAMES

We are concerned that the use of war chants, American Indian related mascots and logos by teams both perpetuates a stereotype and causes insult to many Native Americans.

During the regular season, UW Athletic Department will not schedule any team with a Native American mascot or nickname unless the team is a traditional rival or a conference member.

[The Sicatoka]

... it will be up to the courts to determine whether the NCAA can ignore its own rules and break contracts with its members after taking their money or if it must adhere to some type of standard.

How do courts feel about breeching contracts?

[Redneksioux]

How do courts feel about breeching contracts?

They're totally cool with it

[The Sicatoka]

They're totally cool with it

Sw-w-w-wee-e-e-e-eet.

[SiouxMeNow]

just remember...in a court of law, "ARBITRARY" is actionable and that's what is clearly going on here and it WILL be UND's best arguement against the NC$$!! OR we could change our nickname to "SUE!" - which is apparently what we're doing anyway

[GeauxSioux]

McMurry University's appeal was also rejected this week. Legal action is being discussed.

The University of North Dakota announced that state officials voted to sue the NCAA to keep its Fighting Sioux nickname and Indian head logo.

Taking legal action against the NCAA is one option being discussed by the McMurry committee. Other options are remaining the Indians, changing the nickname, continuing Indian traditions without having the nickname, or joining the National Association of Intercollegiate Athletics (NAIA).

http://mooresportsreport.blogspot.com/2006/08/msr-alert.html

[Chief Illiniwek Supporter]

I could be wrong but I believe the Michigan Wolverines are a school that will not play opponents with Native American mascot/nicknames...not sure if I heard it or read it. The only time I remember the Sioux playing them has been in tournaments (in the last 10 or so years).

On a related note, they do continue to play Notre Dame on an annual basis.

Okay, a little Big Ten history for everyone. AFAIK, there is no conference-wide policy set down by the Big Ten office. However, there are two conference schools with this policy: Wisconsin and Iowa. I think Wisconsin was the first to go PC-happy. I'm a bit more familiar with Iowa's policy and the way it was handled so I'll go into more detail there. The University of Iowa student council got itself into a tizzy one year and started a resolution about Indian nicknames. The grown-ups needed to get involved to water it down enough so the conference games and post-season games were exempted. (After all, the Hawkeye sports department wouldn't want to turn down the money involved with either the NCAA tourney or a possible bowl game for a mere principle, would they? And I'm sure the bowl would say "oh, we see your point. Listen, the Hawks are still invited: we'll turn down Florida State and let their dollars and TV ratings go elsewhere.") After it was passed by whatever student council, it was so important to succeding generations of Iowa students that it was promptly forgotten. Iowa actually played Bradley's baseball team at least once, maybe twice before the old resolution was brought to somebody's attention. They cancelled any future games contracted for with Bradley, and paid whatever financial penalty was involved.

I was just wondering if any school ever said to North Dakota "love to play you, but your name is offensive".

AFAIK, nobody has ever done this to Illinois.

[PCM]

I was just wondering if any school ever said to North Dakota "love to play you, but your name is offensive".

AFAIK, nobody has ever done this to Illinois.

To my knowledge, that's never happened. Probably the closest thing to that was when an American Indian organization at St. Cloud State requested that UND's hockey team not wear its Sioux jerseys while playing at SCSU. As I recall, UND's AD said the request would be considered if it came officially from SCSU's administration, but such a request was never made.

[The Walrus]

To my knowledge, that's never happened. Probably the closest thing to that was when an American Indian organization at St. Cloud State requested that UND's hockey team not wear its Sioux jerseys while playing at SCSU. As I recall, UND's AD said the request would be considered if it came officially from SCSU's administration, but such a request was never made.

We had a exhibition game on schedule for 2006-07 Womens B-Ball vs. Iowa, They declined to play us because of "Fighting Sioux"

[#1 Sioux Fan]

We had a exhibition game on schedule for 2006-07 Womens B-Ball vs. Iowa, They declined to play us because of "Fighting Sioux"

Not to knock ya Walrus, but to make such a statement must warrent some proof, other wise it's just talk, right.