Facilities Master Plan

[bincitysioux]

You are comparing NDSU today with UND in 5 years. What will NDSU's student fees be like in 5 years?

I thought he was comparing NDSU today with UND 5 years ago.

[jimdahl]

That report estimates UND's athletic expenses will rise from $9,473,486 this school year to $18,051,734 by the 2012-2013 school year, UND's last year as a Division II school.

That would be great. Though our most recently designated peers range from the likes of Illinois Chicago ($8.5m 05-06) to UVA ($93m!!!), I think a lot of us think of schools like I-AA/hockey power Maine ($14m 05-06) as the athletics target peer. This would put us right there.

Definitely an exciting time to be a Sioux fan. I can't wait to see how the next five years play out.

That works out to about 5 percent annual inflation during the five-year transition.

Boy, I don't think so

[bincitysioux]

I think a lot of us think of schools like I-AA/hockey power Maine ($14m 05-06) as the target peer. This would put us right there.

That's what I'm thinking.

[The Sicatoka]

Who decides what to do with the Fargodome's money? Has it become a living, breathing entity?

Didn't you hear?

The living, breathing FargoDome signed over power of attorney to Joe Chapman (in meeting that violated the open meetings law no less).

[tony]

Geez, wasn't it ten months ago that UND's crack DI Task Force held a news conference and announced that going DI would cost $1 million a year?

[MplsBison]

Who decides what to do with the Fargodome's money?

The Fargodome Authority decides what to do with the money in the Fargodome's accounts.

[GeauxSioux]

Geez, wasn't it ten months ago that UND's crack DI Task Force held a news conference and announced that going DI would cost $1 million a year?

Well....in general ...........uh............ numbers.................they were ..................ah...............ah...................um................not even close.

Actually Tony, I think there were two different numbers about a day apart, one saying that it was going to cost $1M more and then $2M more the next day.

Edit: I think the $1M was in a newspaper article and the $2M came from the report. Too long ago for us old people to remember accurately.

[jimdahl]

Well....in general ...........uh............ numbers.................they were ..................ah...............ah...................um................not even close.

That's why UND hired the professionals. UND made back-of-the-envelope guesses when deciding whether to even take this step, but making the move based on those would have been monumentally stupid.

Now they have an external refinement of assumptions/outcomes on which they can move forward planning. It's a certainty that the assumptions and some of the outcomes will change in subsequent revisions as UND tweaks the consultant's plan. So, if you're intolerant of what later turns out to be "wrong" information, it's probably best to ignore this number, too.

So, I may have missed it, but isn't the point of this thread that we're supposed to be getting a facilities master plan soon?

[tony]

That's why UND hired the professionals. UND made back-of-the-envelope guesses when deciding whether to even take this step, but making the move based on those would have been monumentally stupid.

Now they have an external refinement of assumptions/outcomes on which they can move forward planning. It's a certainty that the assumptions and some of the outcomes will change in subsequent revisions as UND tweaks the consultant's plan. So, if you're intolerant of what later turns out to be "wrong" information, it's probably best to ignore this number, too.

Oh, I'm tolerant of bad guesses but being an order of magnitude off is more than a bad guess - especially when UND's Task Force had data from NDSU, SDSU, Northern Colorado, and UC Davis to use as a benchmark.

Hehe, for now, I'll just enjoy the irony of it all. I mean, Joe "Carpetbagger" Chapman was publicly castigated for daring to spend $30k on a Carr Report. Just about everything NDSU said about DI was vociferously challenged but, yet, for all the talk about NDSU pulling the wool over peoples' eyes and whatnot, NDSU came up with a $3 million per year figure way back in 2002. Not too shabby

[star2city]

In terms of the Carr report, it was just announced [url="http://www.grandforksherald.com/articles/index.cfm?id=34068

[jimdahl]

I mean, Joe "Carpetbagger" Chapman was publicly castigated for daring to spend $30k on a Carr Report.

I think you're confusing someone else with me. One of the few things I said about NDSU's transition plan was that I thought they should be paying MORE attention to the recommendations from their consultant's study. A main thing I was saying about a potential UND reclassification, before such was announced, was that they should get an external assessment.

Oh, I'm tolerant of bad guesses but being an order of magnitude off is more than a bad guess

NDSU came up with a $3 million per year figure way back in 2002.

You seem to criticizing UND for having to go to a consultant to get an accurate number, while simultaneously lavishing praise on NDSU for using a consultant to come up with what proved to be a great number.

[aff]

I think you're confusing someone else with me. One of the few things I've said about NDSU's transition is that I thought they should be paying MORE attention to the recommendations from their consultant's study. A main thing I was saying about UND, before they announced their move, was that they needed to get an external evaluation of reclassification potential.

You seem to criticizing UND for having to go to a consultant to get an accurate number, while simultaneously lavishing praise on NDSU for using a consultant to come up with what proved to be a great number.

I think he is pointing out that people in some circles would view it as misleading to say that it is going to cost $XX to go D-I when the decision is initially made, only to give a figure less than a year later that is 10 times that amount. After all, when these were the recommendations for going D-I in the first place that Kupchella allegedly used to make his decision, shouldn't people be a little more upset that the amount of money he was considering for the move was only 1/10 th the actually amount needed? You would think something like that would be a big influence in a decision of this magnitude, wouldn't you? One has to ask what the actually point of this report was in the first place....

Starcity is right though, people need to actually view the report so that what was actually budgeted can be determined. Its stupid to draw conclusions before seeing that. Right now it just doesn't look good on the surface.

[jimdahl]

Starcity is right though, people need to actually view the report so that what was actually budgeted can be determined. Its stupid to draw conclusions before seeing that.

Exactly. If you're intolerant of wrong numbers, don't pay attention to this one, either. UND is now going to go study the consultant's assumptions and outcomes and change some assumptions and tweak some outcomes.

UND made a guess (about $2m immediate increase). They hired a consultant who came back with a bit bigger number (about $4m increase in five years, excluding inflation). The numbers are different, but not by the order of magnitude some are trying to suggest.

[82SiouxGuy]

Tom Buning was on the radio a little while ago talking about the report. He said that the budget numbers discussed would put UND in the top 2 or 3 for any conference that they may get involved with, including Mid-Con, Big Sky or several others. It also includes inflation increases for the current budget. The $1 or $2 million discussed before was new spending, it did not include inflation. So, my guess is that the actual budget in 5 years will be somewhere in the middle. That would make it more than the initial estimates but less than this report.

[aff]

Tom Buning was on the radio a little while ago talking about the report. He said that the budget numbers discussed would put UND in the top 2 or 3 for any conference that they may get involved with, including Mid-Con, Big Sky or several others. It also includes inflation increases for the current budget. The $1 or $2 million discussed before was new spending, it did not include inflation. So, my guess is that the actual budget in 5 years will be somewhere in the middle. That would make it more than the initial estimates but less than this report.

With a Hockey program and a football program, I would certainly hope that UND would be the highest budget program in the mid-con, and certainly in the top 3 in the big sky. If you're not, you don't have any chance of being competitive.

Does anybody know off the top of your head how much money in the budget goes strictly toward hockey (mens and womens). I know that it brings in a ton of money, but knowing the expenses for those two sports would make it easier to compare all other sports to where the SU's are currently at.

[The Walrus]

What do the consultant know anyway, full speed ahead......

http://www.in-forum.com/av/index.cfm?id=13...p;type=tvscript

[The Sicatoka]

Too bad there's no bigger BB capable facility in the Grand Forks area.

It'd be great if we had something like this or this nearby ....

[MplsBison]

I would strongly advise you not to become another one of "those" teams that plays their bball games in the football dome.

[The Sicatoka]

Like Syracuse?

Like the Missouri Valley Conference hosting a regional in Edward Jones Dome?

Like the Final Four in Georgia Dome?

Or like the 'yotes?

[bincitysioux]

Where does Wisconsin play basketball again?

[The Sicatoka]

Where does Wisconsin play basketball again?

In Madison.

[GeauxSioux]

I am one of the unfortunate ones who has never seen a hockey game at the Ralph. I have seen three basketball games there in a suite and loved it. The Carr Report is saying that the Betty is undersized for BB. It wasn't built for BB games. It was built for practice. Engelstad Arena will add basketball/volleyball courts

BTW, I hope to see a hockey at the Ralph next season. DOT! DOT! DOT! DOT!

[82SiouxGuy]

Didn't Ohio State play in NC$$ basketball championship game? And what other sport shares a building with the Ohio State basketball team? Doesn't UND need more facilities than Ohio State.

[jimdahl]

Some more details from the report in today's Herald article:

Between 2007 and 2012, the report recommends:

-- Investment in scholarships for student athletes increase from about $1.7 million to about $4.5 million.

-- Salary costs for new coaches and other staff increase from about $3.1 million to about $5.4 million.

-- Sports operations costs, including team travel and recruiting operations, increase from about $1.5 million to about $3.6 million.

They even answered my question about their (on the surface, absurd) prediction of 5% inflation:

Alice Brekke, UND budget director, said the high inflation rate is a reflection of the specific categories where costs are increasing. Scholarships, for example, are tied to tuition rates, which are projected to rise about 5 percent each year in the next biennium.

Salaries at UND, the second main category, will rise between 4 percent and 5 percent annually depending on which side wins a university system budget battle between North Dakota's House and Senate.

A large part of the third main category, sports operations, is made up of travel expenses, Brekke said, which could increase drastically with rising fuel prices and disorder in the airline industry.

[MplsBison]

Like Syracuse?

No, like Idaho, Idaho State, East Tennessee State, etc.: