Big Sky Presidents Meet on May 23rd

[aff]

Once again Aff paints all with a broad brush, Saying that NDSU fans are spitting on the Mid-Con is so far out in left field. If you were to ask NDSU fan's the broad majority would be in favor of Both NDSU and SDSU getting into either conference. Both have their advantages but either would be fine.

A broad brush huh? How many articles have been about the Big sky in the forum in the last two weeks, how many interviews have been with Fullerton? The big sky doesn't even know if it will expand, and they get more attention from saying they might, than the mid con, which definitely is going to expand. You have to admit, there's a lot more attention on the big sky because of football than the mid con in Fargo.

[The Sicatoka]

... there's a lot more attention on the big sky because of football than the mid con in Fargo.

Ding the bell. He got it 100% right.

SDSU fans like Mid-Con because of hoop; NDSU fans like the Big Sky because of football; UND fans like the WCHA because of, er, ah, well, 'cause hatin' Buckie and Goldie is fun and using it as a springboard to 7 NCAA DI national titles ain't bad either.

There's the differences in interests and philosophies of the three groups of fans in one sentence.

That also explains why UND folks are interested in "conference" before a move: We see what a good conference can prepare you to do in post-season play.

[CDog]

Reading through this thread, I was just thinking to myself how orderly and thoughtfull the discussion was. I'm being serious. Good points by UND, NDSU, and SDSU fans. No name calling or smack taking place here. You won't find this at bisonville, where if UND is brought up, someone by the name of "kchats" goes on a bizarre rant. Thank you to the Bison and Jack fans on this thread for displaying some class.

[MplsBison]

The last time the Big Sky added three teams one of them dropped football and another had to be granted a waiver to drop tennis.

Since then the BSC has been cautious about expanding

[aff]

The last time the Big Sky added three teams one of them dropped football and another had to be granted a waiver to drop tennis.

Since then the BSC has been cautious about expanding

And the last time the big sky conference extended an invitation farther east than montana was never.

[star2city]

Starcity, if you think I'm 89Rabbit, then figure out how to check my IP address and locate it. Its not terribly difficult. Just ask the Moderator to tell you my IP. Tell him that I gave you full permission to have it. See if its from Kansas City or its suburbs. See if its from Brookings. Otherwise I think you need to take me at my word that I'm not 89Rabbit, living in Kansas City.

So 89rabbit lives in KC? For a Gopher fan, who "doesn't post on many other boards but this one" and who has a lot of passion for SDSU and NDSU even though you're not of fan of either, and has high hopes for the MidCOn conference, you sure seem to know a lot about 89rabbit, who doesn't even post here. It would be interesting to get 89rabbit's, or any other Jackrabbit's fan perspectives, though.

[star2city]

If you guys had the cahona's to move up and were an independant you would be doing the same thing so don't be so quick to ridicule the Mid-Con.

My comments weren't an attempt to ridicule the MidCOn. The MidCon as a conference makes a very poor match for UND as an institution. The MidCon would make a much better match for a schools like IPFW, Northern Kentucky, or even Nebraska-Omaha (not that that will happend)

As far as the comment about NDSU's only chance at the BSC is with SDSU and UND is laughable. Maybe with SDSU yes but you still seem to think the BSC is looking at a DII school. You guys just don't get it, no conference is going to take you seriously when you haven't even declared. Don't hold your breath or throw to much dirt on any conference NDSU and or SDSU get in, you may be knocking on the same door someday.

So if UND gets into the Big Sky with NDSU and SDSU, what will be your response?

[star2city]

As for the SDSU and NDSU conference situation, who do you think is going to be rectruiting the better basketball players in the future if NDSU is in the big sky and SDSU is in the Midcon. Right now NDSU has a player from outside Kansas City, Riley, that both schools were after. If SDSU was in the Midcon and NDSU wasn't, where would he be going to school right now? How about players from Illinios, Missouri, and East? SDSU. Now what about the players that NDSU would be able to recruit. Haven't seen many from Cal. Washington, Montana etc. on either schools roster lately? What about the players from Minneapolis? Do you think they want their closest away game to be in Montana? Or maybe they could have ones east of the cities. If SDSU was in the midcon, it would be a dream come true for its fans and coaches from a basketball perspective. They would have the advantage over NDSU every time for recruits. If I was an SDSU fan I would like nothing better than NDSU to go to the Sky and SDSU to go to the mid con. It also leaves the door open for SDSU to the Missouri Valley, without having to wait for NDSU too. It also allows for better travel, having a drive to Kansas City for games against UMKC, and shorter flights to other destinations. But what does that matter, UND has games against Mayville state on the schedule, they should definitely be telling people that their conference "sucks". Playing Valporasio every year at home? Oakland? The same Oakland team that was playing Memphis two months ago on national television. But what does that matter when you can get the comets into play in front of 500 people?

With NDSU recruiting mainly Minnesota and Wisconsin, don't really see how the MidCon would be an easy sell for that location of recruits. The promise of a non-conference game at Minnesota, Wisconsin, Marquette, or even Wis-Milw would be a bigger sell than a conference game in Macomb, Ill against Western Illinois. Except for Valpo and maybe Oral Roberts, MidCon fans generally have so little passion. In the Big Sky, the opposite is true (with a like number of exceptions).

I'm just stating that I really doubt the big sky will expand to only include a school what, 800 miles outside of its footprint? It doesn't make any sense, and Fullerton is full of crap. Sac isn't going to agree to it, and neither are the other west coast schools, and they've got the conference held hostage. All I was trying to say is that NDSU has a real possibility of an auto bid to the tournament for basketball coming up, and their fans are pretty much spitting on it. Its pretty sad. I hope that the midcon presidents get wind of the attitiude up in Fargo, and doesn't add them, and the Big Sky lets them sit until Sac Leaves in 15 years. Then we'll see where the superority goes to.

You need to take this to the Bison board and see what they say.

[BisonMav]

A broad brush huh? How many articles have been about the Big sky in the forum in the last two weeks, how many interviews have been with Fullerton? The big sky doesn't even know if it will expand, and they get more attention from saying they might, than the mid con, which definitely is going to expand. You have to admit, there's a lot more attention on the big sky because of football than the mid con in Fargo.

The Forum does not equal all NDSU fans

[DI IN FARGO]

A broad brush huh? How many articles have been about the Big sky in the forum in the last two weeks, how many interviews have been with Fullerton? The big sky doesn't even know if it will expand, and they get more attention from saying they might, than the mid con, which definitely is going to expand. You have to admit, there's a lot more attention on the big sky because of football than the mid con in Fargo.

What does the Fargo Forum have to do with what NDSU officials or the fans of NDSU have to do with their choice in either or conference. Your comment about the Basketball conference vs. Football for the Big sky is legit and I won't argue that but those are just consequences of the two conferneces and where the fans interest in general lies. If the administration at NDSU was to favor the sky or the fans as well (which I'm not saying they do refer to the poll on Bisonville) you won't see a big difference in support of either they are pretty much in the same ballpark when talking about support from the fans. So back to the original reason for my reply to you and I still stand by it I think your argument is flawed and to say the Bison faithful think poorly or as you say spit on the conference is just plain wrong.

[DI IN FARGO]

My comments weren't an attempt to ridicule the MidCOn. The MidCon as a conference makes a very poor match for UND as an institution. The MidCon would make a much better match for a schools like IPFW, Northern Kentucky, or even Nebraska-Omaha (not that that will happend)

So if UND gets into the Big Sky with NDSU and SDSU, what will be your response?

I would say when your looking at conference affilitation you take first one that offers. If and when something else that would be more appropriate comes along at a later date then you look at that option i.e. get conference affiliation first and then if and when its appropriate make a change if a better opportunity arises just like any other school would do.

If UND does make the move they will be in the same boat as any other school looking for conference affiliation and until such time as a spot opens up then work through the transitional status just like NDSU and SDSU did. IF your asking how would I vote its a mute point as I have no vote. On the other hand I can't tell you how President Chapman or the SDSU president would vote I really don't know.

[star2city]

I would say when your looking at conference affilitation you take first one that offers. If and when something else that would be more appropriate comes along at a later date then you look at that option i.e. get conference affiliation first and then if and when its appropriate make a change if a better opportunity arises just like any other school would do.

If UND does make the move they will be in the same boat as any other school looking for conference affiliation and until such time as a spot opens up then work through the transitional status just like NDSU and SDSU did. IF your asking how would I vote its a mute point as I have no vote. On the other hand I can't tell you how President Chapman or the SDSU president would vote I really don't know.

Wasn't referring to five years down the road, but now, next week/this summer.

Just last year, Central Arkansas was accepted into the Southland Conference as a DII over two other full DI schools (Centenary and UTPA) when the Southland went to 12 members. A DII school can get into a lower ranking DI conference - it has happened many times previously.

[DI IN FARGO]

Wasn't referring to five years down the road, but now, next week/this summer.

Just last year, Central Arkansas was accepted into the Southland Conference as a DII over two other full DI schools (Centenary and UTPA) when the Southland went to 12 members. A DII school can get into a lower ranking DI conference - it has happened many times previously.

What your talking about is more the exception to the rule then the norm. I wouldn't be holding my breath if I were you waiting on that conference invite to come.

[rabidrabbit]

Wasn't referring to five years down the road, but now, next week/this summer.

Just last year, Central Arkansas was accepted into the Southland Conference as a DII over two other full DI schools (Centenary and UTPA) when the Southland went to 12 members. A DII school can get into a lower ranking DI conference - it has happened many times previously.

S2C - good points! Why is UND like UCA and unlike Centenary or UTPA is another way of phrasing this question.

UND is like UCA in that it's a top D-2 school, with full range of sports, especially both football and basketball. Cent/UTPA aren't. Enrollment is 10K plus, mainly not commuters. I've not sized out UCA stadium/arena, but suspect UND is larger than UCA. Cent/UTPA are tiny backwater schools that are struggling, and probably shouldn't be D-I, especially Cent.

Why is situation different from UCA? Generally isn't. Either conference (Big Sky or Mid-Con) you are outside their footprint. Big Sky reasons for accepting UND in near future. Join two strong programs as third in same general area as those two. However, SUU also fits that description, and already within BSC footprint. Schollies on the rise there. Reasons to accept UND into Mid-Con - Get to 12 schools. Helps solidify GWFC/Mid-con combo (A desired outcome of commish). Again, acceptance is premised on SDSU/NDSU also here.

At this time, I see no viable alternative for UND to be invited to ANY DI conference other than in conjunction with NDSU, and likely also SDSU. Otherwise, Grand Forks is too remote from other schools, such as MT, UNI, UNC to attract them. But bundled in with the SU's......

Future growth/acceptance is better in the mid-con/GWFC than in Big Sky IMHO.

BTW, '89's info at SDSUFans.com does shown him living in KC/Shawnee KS.

We'd love to see u in D-1, but understand if wish to keep D-2/NCC alive too.

[Bison Dan]

Wasn't referring to five years down the road, but now, next week/this summer.

Just last year, Central Arkansas was accepted into the Southland Conference as a DII over two other full DI schools (Centenary and UTPA) when the Southland went to 12 members. A DII school can get into a lower ranking DI conference - it has happened many times previously.

I guess this about answers it:

Mid Con and BSC commissioners just put a fork in the notion that a dii team can be asked to join a DI conference before they make a commitment to DI.

http://www.in-forum.com/articles/index.cfm...&section=Sports

[jimdahl]

Mid Con and BSC commissioners just put a fork in the notion that a dii team can be asked to join a DI conference before they make a commitment to DI.

http://www.in-forum.com/articles/index.cfm...&section=Sports

Their Fullerton quote certainly attempts to paint it as if he won't consider any school in transition (i.e. no UND, NDSU, or SDSU):

“It’s going to be real tough,” said Fullerton, whose league’s presidents council is expected to discuss expansion next Tuesday at its annual meeting. “I think you almost have to make the move first. It’s very difficult for a conference to carry a university through the transition process. It almost tears you apart as a conference when you have one school that cannot participate.”

Of course, Big Sky already took UNC while still in transition, and has asked NDSU, SDSU, and UND to submit institutional profiles during each of the previous two expansion rounds, so I'll take that more as affirmation that transition status is a consideration (for at least one person).

Buning suggests that a transition with an NDSU-like transitional faux conference is acceptable to UND:

“There may be a substitute for having a conference,” Buning said. “I want to be optimistic (about finding a conference.) It’s the best opportunity for the university in what would be a difficult process. You have to have a contingency plan. Forming a league fulfills most of the requirements for a conference and is still acceptable.”

[WYOBISONMAN]

Their Fullerton quote certainly attempts to paint it as if he won't consider any school in transition (i.e. no UND, NDSU, or SDSU):

[star2city]

I guess this about answers it:

Mid Con and BSC commissioners just put a fork in the notion that a dii team can be asked to join a DI conference before they make a commitment to DI.

[url="http://www.in-forum.com/articles/index.cfm?id=127063

[jimdahl]

I also find it interesting that, for the first time, the Forum chooses to print an article that is negative about the chances of a conference for a school early in the transition. The Forum never relayed these facts to Bison fans two years ago, causing them to have high, but false, expectations.

Fullerton's statements also would seem to confirm that the earliest NDSU and SDSU could both get in the Big Sky is the 2008-9 season.

That's what I was trying to say The Forum's "UND can't possibly get into Big Sky" quote also collaterally excluded NDSU from consideration -- oops. That Big Sky added UNC in transition and keeps requesting info from UND/SDSU/NDSU demonstrates that it's not a strict criterion, but the quote certainly suggests that transition status is a significant consideration.

[WYOBISONMAN]

That's what I was trying to say The Forum's "UND can't possibly get into Big Sky" quote also collaterally excluded NDSU from consideration -- oops. That Big Sky added UNC in transition and keeps requesting info from UND/SDSU/NDSU demonstrates that it's not a strict criterion, but the quote certainly suggests that transition status is a significant consideration.

I think a key factor is just how far a team is from post season eligibility. That is why an institution needs to just make the move and get the clock ticking.......

[DI IN FARGO]

I have said it several times and that article pretty much backs up what I was saying. No conference will take you seriously until you declare. I don't think I would go so far as to say it excludes NDSU. If they decide to take NDSU/SDSU or just one by the time the conference schedules would be setup for the first year they are in the conference they would either have to wait one year for eligibility for playoffs or the Big Sky could make it so the first year they are in the conference is 08. Either way the main thing is NDSU and or SDSU get into the conference. If its the Mid-Con the same thing applies. I see a bright future based on those comments either way. The main thing is we only have two years left of transition and thats the bottom line. Conference affilitation will take care of itself and maybe sooner then many think for both NDSU and SDSU.

[Bison Dan]

You can spin it anyway you want. The fact remains that UND is never going to be asked to join a conference while it's still dii.

[tony]

Meh. I kinda think Mr. Fullerton tailors his comments for his audience. The only thing this article did was put to rest the rumor that Fullerton told UND that they were going to get an invitation to the Big Sky (as if Fullerton had the power to make it happen anyway). I like Fullerton - he keeps the lines of communication open and is a big cheerleader for NDSU getting into the Sky - but he doesn't get to make decisions like that.

Bison Dan, never say never. It seems like you are letting your dislike for UND cloud your reasoning. Lots of DII schools have gotten invitations to DI conferences, and in the long run, SDSU and NDSU getting into a DI conference will greatly increase the odds of schools like UND, SCSU, et al getting into a DI conference.

[Bison Dan]

Meh. I kinda think Mr. Fullerton tailors his comments for his audience. The only thing this article did was put to rest the rumor that Fullerton told UND that they were going to get an invitation to the Big Sky (as if Fullerton had the power to make it happen anyway). I like Fullerton - he keeps the lines of communication open and is a big cheerleader for NDSU getting into the Sky - but he doesn't get to make decisions like that.

Bison Dan, never say never. It seems like you are letting your dislike for UND cloud your reasoning. Lots of DII schools have gotten invitations to DI conferences, and in the long run, SDSU and NDSU getting into a DI conference will greatly increase the odds of schools like UND, SCSU, et al getting into a DI conference.

Nothing is clouded - just read the article and what it said. Those dii schools you are talking about are in the middle of DI conferences - different story in ND SD. Granted NDSU and SDSU getting into a conference will help UND and scsu if they want to join later on, but most of the UND posts here have been saying that UND will be asked either before NDSU or with NDSU and SDSU. This article pretty much tells a different story. You are right about one thing, never say never.

[star2city]

Meh. I kinda think Mr. Fullerton tailors his comments for his audience. The only thing this article did was put to rest the rumor that Fullerton told UND that they were going to get an invitation to the Big Sky (as if Fullerton had the power to make it happen anyway). I like Fullerton - he keeps the lines of communication open and is a big cheerleader for NDSU getting into the Sky - but he doesn't get to make decisions like that.

Wow! Actually agree with Tony!

but most of the UND posts here have been saying that UND will be asked either before NDSU or with NDSU and SDSU. This article pretty much tells a different story. You are right about one thing, never say never.

BD:

Where have you ever seen it said UND will be asked before NDSU? Your dislike of UND is obviously affecting your reading comprehension.