The real Champions

[dagies]

1st take this with a grain of salt because I have always been and will continue to remain a big supporter of Dave Hakstol, but I can't help saying the same thing I said after the USA/Belarus game-"Dean Blais would not have lost that game"!!

That said......Go Sioux

You've gotta be kidding me. I'm love Blais as much as the next guy, but why don't people remember the monster disappointments of 1998 and 1999 when they bring up "Dean Blais wouldn't have lost" arguments.

[dagies]

Rosters don't play games.

Well, I think we're getting a handle on what happened during that MN/HC game now....

[buckysieve]

So Bucky, by your great logic, I guess you are conceeding that the one move wonder's freshmen season really was a bust. After all he was supposed to come in a dominate games other than the four against Alaska. (or Norway)

I'm just saying that I don't think the Sioux overachieved. It's not supposed to be the put down you guys are making it into. Losing to Michigan or Holy Cross on home ice would have been an upset, therefore winning those games and moving onto the Frozen Four was to be expected. Beating St. Cloud State for the Broadmoor was to be expected. These are teams that the Sioux are better than. Overachieving in my opinion is beating teams that you're not supposed to beat. Beating UW at the final five can maybe be called a small upset but I think most fans of both teams agreed that game was pretty much a toss up before it started. And of course beating Mankato in the first round was also to be expected.

I just don't see where the Sioux overachieved. Who did they beat that was a surprise? You can't find one example. This isn't a derogatory comment towards the Sioux. They beat whoever was in front of them throughout the post season until BC. I just don't think any of those wins were upsets.

[7>4]

BS,

I think the post is looking at the season as a whole. The bottom line for me is that if someone told me that the Sioux would make it to the FF at the beginning of the year, I would have said that that exceeded my expectations.

On the other hand, if somebody would have told me I would experience the profound pleasure of watching the Gophers dribble one down their legs against Holy Cross, I would have said that exceeded by wildest imagination.

[redwing77]

You've gotta be kidding me. I'm love Blais as much as the next guy, but why don't people remember the monster disappointments of 1998 and 1999 when they bring up "Dean Blais wouldn't have lost" arguments.

I don't know why I didn't think of this before, but I think it comes down to feelings. People tend to feel better when things don't go the way they wanted if they can find something or someone to blame. When you are dealing with fans of an individual sport (like golf or tennis) it's pretty easy. Federer didn't beat some unranked schlub from Whocarsikstan. Why? Because he didn't show up to play. It's his fault. Done. When it is a team sport, unless it is shockingly obvious, it isn't that definitive. So, people grasp at straws. I didn't see the blame Hakstol part until later. The first one was blame Parise. Then it was blame the D. And now we have Blame Hakstol. It's all a conditioning to give these people a scapegoat to point at when they try to rationalize how a postseason that had been going so well could come to such an abrupt and disappointing end.

So yeah, blaming Hakstol is in. Unfortunately, some people just can't handle the fact that BC outcapitalized us. Both teams made mistakes and BC capitalized on more of the mistakes than we did. It's really that simple.

[Goon]

BS,

I think the post is looking at the season as a whole. The bottom line for me is that if someone told me that the Sioux would make it to the FF at the beginning of the year, I would have said that that exceeded my expectations.

On the other hand, if somebody would have told me I would experience the profound pleasure of watching the Gophers dribble one down their legs against Holy Cross, I would have said that exceeded by wildest imagination.

I think I would have to agree with this observations. I think this team exceded expectations, they were a bubble team before the WCHA playoffs, and they answered the call. UND was a young team this year and took its lumps along the way and got better at the end of the season and made the Frozen Four, they also did get a few breaks along the way. I think realistically speaking getting to the Frozen Four was a nice surprise, for me any way. I think this team is built for the future, We had a couple of players Watkins and Kozek that are just starting to reach their potential. The Fighting Sioux also has a very young defense, that will get better. The possibilities for this team is scarey good. Look at Wisconsin they were a veteran team that gained experience with four years of Mike Eaves systems. Hak really can't be evaluated until he has had four years of his recruits. So far it looks pretty darn good and promising. Also, the last two years Eades has been an assistant the special teams have improved drastically as well as defensively under Brad Berry.

While the sting of losing is in the minds of the fans imagine how the players probably feel, this experience the last two season should give them enough motivation to during the off season to be more focused next season. This season we had two players that still should have been High School seniors. Pretty amazing if you ask me. I can only imagine what some of these kids can do after a summer in the weight room. Yikes the opposition will come to know this team very well in the next couple of season.

[Piper]

I think this team exceded expectations, they were a bubble team before the WCHA playoffs, and they answered the call.

But they shouldn't have been a bubble team that late in the season, that's the point. They underachieved for much of the season and reached their potential at the end.

[Slap Shot]

Again, you are making these statements with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight. When a team picked to finish fifth in its league ends up as one of the top four teams in the nation, saying that the team overachieved is not a stretch at all.

Sioux fans can't have it both ways. They either have the talent or they don't and simply played over their heads. Which is it?

(Take the above with a grain of salt - I have no problem with either perespective )

[82SiouxGuy]

I'm just saying that I don't think the Sioux overachieved. It's not supposed to be the put down you guys are making it into. Losing to Michigan or Holy Cross on home ice would have been an upset, therefore winning those games and moving onto the Frozen Four was to be expected. Beating St. Cloud State for the Broadmoor was to be expected. These are teams that the Sioux are better than. Overachieving in my opinion is beating teams that you're not supposed to beat. Beating UW at the final five can maybe be called a small upset but I think most fans of both teams agreed that game was pretty much a toss up before it started. And of course beating Mankato in the first round was also to be expected.

I just don't see where the Sioux overachieved. Who did they beat that was a surprise? You can't find one example. This isn't a derogatory comment towards the Sioux. They beat whoever was in front of them throughout the post season until BC. I just don't think any of those wins were upsets.

I think that what bucky is saying is that UND didn't get a chance to overacheive because UMTC underacheived, twice. UND played Holy Cross because UMTC lost a game in which they were overwhelming favorites. And UND played St. Cloud at the Final Five for the the same season. So Holy Cross and St. Cloud overacheived while UND was right where they should have been as long as they didn't have to face the mighty UMTC squad.

I still see it as overacheiving when a team that finishes in the middle of the WCHA, where it was predicted to be at the beginning of the season, moves on to the Frozen Four. Just because the path is not as difficult as predicted doesn't make it less of an accomplishment.

[82SiouxGuy]

Sioux fans can't have it both ways. They either have the talent or they don't and simply played over their heads. Which is it?

(Take the above with a grain of salt - I have no problem with either perespective )

Actually, there is a different perspective. Talent does not always equal acheivment. Young talent often needs to grow into acheivement. My perspective is that the Sioux hockey team, with a lot of very young talent, acheived faster than expected. I expected them to be competitive in the regular season and have a chance to reach the regional. Once you get there just about anything can happen in a single game elimination. We saw that happen in this year's tournament.

[PCM]

Sioux fans can't have it both ways. They either have the talent or they don't and simply played over their heads. Which is it?

Nobody's trying to have it both ways. There are three possibilities. Either the team underachieved, overachieved or finished about as expected.

Clearly, reaching the Frozen Four with 9-10 freshmen playing every night is not underachieving.

Was it realistic to expect a team with that many freshmen to reach the Frozen Four? I don't recall anyone with any hockey knowledge making such a prediction before the season started. If you know of such experts, kindly list them here.

The only remaining conclusion is that the team overachieved. If you disagree with that conclusion, please feel free to list those experts who said UND would be a Frozen Four team by season's end. Most people felt that if the Sioux could qualify for the West Regional, they'd be doing well.

The "too young to win anything this year" label was hung on the Sioux early in the season and stayed there until they won the Broadmoor. Even after that, there were quite a few teams in the PairWise Rankings above UND.

[brianvf]

The "too young to win anything this year" label was hung on the Sioux early in the season and stayed there until they won the Broadmoor.

I put the "too young to win anything this year" line in my signature on USCHO during the pre-season threads, as many fans, both opposing and Sioux fans, proclaimed that the Sioux were too young to do anything with their season. After going through struggles, they finished the season strong.

They were a team that didn't have many expectations placed on their shoulders before the season started, and they got some valuable playoff experiences with their late season run. Hopefully they can build on that next year.

[MafiaMan]

I'm still at a loss for words as to how a 2005-2006 Gopher hockey fan can call the Sioux of this past season underachievers. Look in the mirror.

[sagard]

The Gophers blew it vs. SCSU then Holy Cross. It was painful. They had a great season up until the wheels fell off. After the season they had I don't know how anyone could not call the playoffs a major underachievement.

The Sioux did great. It was hard to know how good they would be with all the new players. They pulled it together and looked great in the WCHA playoffs and really for a month before to lock up their bid. Unfortunately once at the Frozen Four the Sioux let a very good shot at #8 slip through the cracks. I don't think UW was anywhere near as good as the DU team in '05 and UND would have had a great shot had they made it to the final. Elliott certainly may have been able to shut them down, but I know UND would have put close to twice the shots BC put on him. I wouldn't call it an underachievement, but it certainly was an opportunity lost.

UND fans will always have that Holy Cross game, the WCHA championship and the Western regional. Us Gophers fans will focus on the McNaughton and the simple pleasure of watching RP bury shot after shot after shot. UW fans get to savor redemption after 15 years of exile.

[PCM]

I wouldn't call it an underachievement, but it certainly was an opportunity lost.

That's a statement with which I can totally agree.

There have been Sioux teams in recent years that I'd consider "underachievers." Those would be the 97-98, 98-99 and 03-04 UND teams. I don't think anyone would have been surprised had any of those teams won national championships.

[UNDakota]

This may be total bs and a bs anology...

the super bowl sucked and that was a 2 week wait

the frozen 4 semis sucked and that was a 2 week wait

ive decided i dont like 2 week waits (Go Steelers)

[Goon]

I'm still at a loss for words as to how a 2005-2006 Gopher hockey fan can call the Sioux of this past season underachievers. Look in the mirror.

I know that is funny; pot calling the kettle black. At least UND didn't lose to Holy Cross.

[Taz Boy]

The Gophers blew it vs. SCSU then Holy Cross. It was painful. They had a great season up until the wheels fell off. After the season they had I don't know how anyone could not call the playoffs a major underachievement.

The Sioux did great. It was hard to know how good they would be with all the new players. They pulled it together and looked great in the WCHA playoffs and really for a month before to lock up their bid. Unfortunately once at the Frozen Four the Sioux let a very good shot at #8 slip through the cracks. I don't think UW was anywhere near as good as the DU team in '05 and UND would have had a great shot had they made it to the final. Elliott certainly may have been able to shut them down, but I know UND would have put close to twice the shots BC put on him. I wouldn't call it an underachievement, but it certainly was an opportunity lost.

UND fans will always have that Holy Cross game, the WCHA championship and the Western regional. Us Gophers fans will focus on the McNaughton and the simple pleasure of watching RP bury shot after shot after shot. UW fans get to savor redemption after 15 years of exile.

How can I possibly continue my tirades against the filthy rodent when so much sense comes out of one of their fans? Sagard, you're killing me! No blind "Pride On Ice/State of Hockey" dogma. No Twin Cities/D-I arrogance. No left over Wooger Shrine of Whine excuse-filled mentality. No chest-puffing-big "M"-Grand Forks-is-hicksville sneering. Are you sure you are a Gopher Fan?

No, this just can't be. Does not compute with Taz Boy. The Goofer Collective must have kicked you out of the club house long ago for using too many big words. Now the local media refers to you as "Sagard, maverick Gopher fan."

I must admit, in my dealings amongst the faithful in Gooferville I have come across a small number of those who wear the "M" proudly and yet still put forth coherent thought on the issues of the day, hockey-related or otherwise. So, perhaps I should not be so surprised.

Yet, there it is. Even so, I will still be watching, reading. You'll slip up sooner or later, I'm sure of it. One of the Moron-in-Gold talking points will slip out eventually. A "What else can you do in the Forks..." or a "Mariucci West..." or even a throwback like "you won those with 25 year old Canadians..." type phrase coming out in autonomous, kneejerk reaction. Then I can pounce. But, so far, nothing. I can wait... or not.

What's this thread about? Oh yeah, Go Sioux!!!!

taz

[ATLSiouxPhan]

This may be total bs and a bs anology...

the super bowl sucked and that was a 2 week wait

the frozen 4 semis sucked and that was a 2 week wait

ive decided i dont like 2 week waits (Go Steelers)

My paycheck sucked and it was a two week wait.

[Slap Shot]

Nobody's trying to have it both ways.

Perhaps you missed the wink?

[redwing77]

How can I possibly continue my tirades against the filthy rodent when so much sense comes out of one of their fans? Sagard, you're killing me! No blind "Pride On Ice/State of Hockey" dogma. No Twin Cities/D-I arrogance. No left over Wooger Shrine of Whine excuse-filled mentality. No chest-puffing-big "M"-Grand Forks-is-hicksville sneering. Are you sure you are a Gopher Fan?

No, this just can't be. Does not compute with Taz Boy. The Goofer Collective must have kicked you out of the club house long ago for using too many big words. Now the local media refers to you as "Sagard, maverick Gopher fan."

I must admit, in my dealings amongst the faithful in Gooferville I have come across a small number of those who wear the "M" proudly and yet still put forth coherent thought on the issues of the day, hockey-related or otherwise. So, perhaps I should not be so surprised.

Yet, there it is. Even so, I will still be watching, reading. You'll slip up sooner or later, I'm sure of it. One of the Moron-in-Gold talking points will slip out eventually. A "What else can you do in the Forks..." or a "Mariucci West..." or even a throwback like "you won those with 25 year old Canadians..." type phrase coming out in autonomous, kneejerk reaction. Then I can pounce. But, so far, nothing. I can wait... or not.

What's this thread about? Oh yeah, Go Sioux!!!!

taz

Bah. Sagard's a closet Sioux fan so it's no wonder why he's talking sense Seriously, he's fun to read.

Greyeagle is always fun to read, even though he seems to be more concerned with GPL (as he's a moderator on that board) than to hang out with us...

[TC_transplant]

Was it realistic to expect a team with that many freshmen to reach the Frozen Four? I don't recall anyone with any hockey knowledge making such a prediction before the season started. If you know of such experts, kindly list them here.

The only remaining conclusion is that the team overachieved. If you disagree with that conclusion, please feel free to list those experts who said UND would be a Frozen Four team by season's end. Most people felt that if the Sioux could qualify for the West Regional, they'd be doing well.

USCHO picked UND seventh in the preseason poll with a first-place vote. The USA Today preseason poll had UND sixth. With home ice for the regional, a trip to the Frozen Four was a reasonable expectation. If they didn't make the Frozen Four, you'd all be complaining that the team didn't play to its potential and how it was a missed opportunity.

(Even those that don't know about hockey agreed that UND was a Frozen Four contender.....INCH had the Sioux second in the WCHA and third in the nation while Fox Sports had the Sioux fifth in the nation).

[MafiaMan]

USCHO picked UND seventh in the preseason poll with a first-place vote. The USA Today preseason poll had UND sixth.

And pre-season polls mean everything, don't they?

Here's a look at this past season's NFL pre-season playoff teams as brought to you by SI magazine:

AFC playoff teams: Ravens, Jets, Steelers, Chiefs, Colts, Patriots

NFC playoff teams: Cowboys, Vikings, Falcons, Rams, Panthers, Eagles

Of those 12 teams, only the Steelers, Colts, Patriots, and Panthers made the playoffs. Now, seriously, would anyone think the Patriots or Colts could have missed the playoffs? That would mean SI picked 1 out of 10 other playoff teams not named New England or Indianapolis.

What's that all spell? It's nice to debate, but pre-season polls and rankings don't mean a thing.

[buckysieve]

And pre-season polls mean everything, don't they?

What's that all spell? It's nice to debate, but pre-season polls and rankings don't mean a thing.

Well then stop using the Grand Forks Herald pre-season poll as an argument to show that the Sioux overachieved this season. When you're an elite program with home ice in the regional a Frozen Four is expected, no matter what.

Going into last year the Gophers were coming off of losing Vanek, Riddle, Koalska, G. Potulny, Ballard, and Taylor, but knowing that they had the regional at Mariucci I fully expected to see them in the Frozen Four. The fact that seven freshman played every night didn't change that opinion.

[PCM]

(Even those that don't know about hockey agreed that UND was a Frozen Four contender.....INCH had the Sioux second in the WCHA and third in the nation while Fox Sports had the Sioux fifth in the nation).

Yes, and go back and check the posts here to see how realistic Sioux fans thought that was. The WCHA coaches were far more realistic than INCH and, as it turned out, more accurate. So were most Sioux fans who post here.