D2 Abandoned Stronger Schools....NDSU Did Not Abandon D2 or the NCC

[informant]

I came on this site in an attempt to understand the hatred between the two universities and to explain that I have been a fan of different programs at both schools. But the UND backers on this site will have no part of it. I admit to having a stronger allegiance to NDSU because I've been such a huge fan of Bison football for about four decades...since the Mudra/Erhardt days. That dates me pretty well. It was an amazing ride that deserves to be called a dynasty in D2. I loved watching the Bison. I admit that I've never been much of a hockey fan. Mayville/Portland is a basketball community...to put it mildly. I grew up in that culture...with standing room only crowds at Lewy Lee Fieldhouse for our high school games. Hockey was rarely talked about.

But I loved watching UND men's basketball too. This is what I've tried to get across. I am a legitimate UND men's basketball fan. I lived in Brookings, SD in the 90s. When the great UND teams came to Brookings, I was always there cheering for them. UND had a team that should have been in the nationals a few times, but they got a little unlucky. It was unfortunate...and it was upsetting. I was at most of those regional games. I skipped the Bison basketball games most of the time. And I do remember listening to the Phil Jackson teams as a kid on the radio. I was too young to go to the games.

I've supported SU's move to DI-AA because I believe that continuing to work within the confines of D2 rules was making it very difficult to rebuild the football program. If the brilliant people at the NCAA were to make a ruling stating that any DI hockey program had to move all of its sports to DI-AA or higher...would there be any debate in the UND community? Or would UND simply move its hockey program down? This hypothetical question was asked in an earlier posting of mine....but I didn't receive any straight answers. Is there a UND hockey fan that would care to give a straight, simple answer to this question? Or are all of you content to just get in my face about it?

NDSU's traditional program is football. Admittedly, there was a dip in the quality of play at SU after their last national championship in the early 90s. The cycle turned toward UND. The rivalry has gone through several cycles. That's one of the big reasons why the rivalry became so intense. It shifted back and forth. Prior to the Erhardt days...UND pounded on NDSU for a long time. In the 60s the cycle changed. It was somewhat neutral in the 70s...with one UND championship mixed in there. The 80s belonged to NDSU, with some really amazing teams. Then, after 1991, it began to shift toward UND.

But NDSU views its football program much the same as UND views its hockey. The leadership and backers at SU wanted to bring up the caliber of play again. They didn't see it happening as easily in D2 because of scholarship limitations.

I ask this question also: Try to imagine, for a moment, that you were a Bison football fan, and that you had experienced what I call the dynasty years of the 60s and 80s. How would you be feeling if the program dropped to total mediocrity? Would you call for dramatic changes? And would you be content to wait around for other schools to make bold moves while the program is crumbling?

Several UND faithful have written that NDSU's move up was strictly to get in UND's face. That might be true to an extent. But there is another huge factor that is being missed. Since St. Cloud and Mankato entered the mix...it has been more difficult to lure some of the better players that weren't quite up to DI standards away from the Twin Cities. I see the entrance of Crookston, Mary (Bismarck), Moorhead, Southwest State, Bemidji, and other smaller schools into D2 as a definitive sign that the complexion of D2 has changed entirely. Blue-chip D2 athletes from the Twin Cities area began to see St. Cloud and Mankato as an opportunity to stay closer to home and still play a decent brand of football. Recruiting those kids up to North Dakota became more difficult.

UND has had some strong coaching and good recruiting in recent years. I don't begrudge UND for being proud of its recent successes. That's been a part of the cycle change. The new coaching staff at SU came, in part, because of the DI-AA status. Some really poor leadership and coaching entered the mix at NDSU in the late 80s and 90s. That's the way it goes.

It is my opinion that NDSU has not abandoned D2 or the NCC. Rather...D2 has abandoned stronger programs like NDSU, UND, Pittsburg St., Northern Colorado....etc. I won't list them here...but many of NDSU's past playoff rivals have made the move up to DI-AA. As far as I'm concerned, SU (and perhaps UND) should have made the move in the early 90s when the programs were still really strong. Entzion, the AD at the time, was too busy hanging out at parks and falling asleep at the wheel...literally and figuratively. It was an embarrassment. They were difficult times. Some really poor decisions were made about allowing players to play even with some very bad behavior...to put it mildly. This hurt the image of the program and the chemistry of the winning tradition. Again...the leadership at SU saw a need to jolt the program, or give it a strong transfusion. I agreed with the move for the above reasons.

No, it's not fair that NDSU moved up without UND. But I argue this point. UND has had its DI hockey program in the national spotlight for decades. I'm not jealous about it. I admire it. I don't want NDSU to have DI hockey. I want to support UND's program. I see no need to double up those programs and to fight for the top recruits in the region.

Rather...I want to see NDSU football playing a very high caliber of football again. No....there is not a huge difference between D2's stronger programs and DI-AA's programs. And we saw UC Davis defeat Stanford at home this past fall. Granted...Stanford had a down year, but they did manage to win a few conference games after pulling it together some.

The difference, as I see it, between D2 and DI-AA is depth and some speed on many of the teams. Perhaps UND is an exception. I don't know. Perhaps the same could be said for Pittsburgh St. and a few of the stronger D2 programs. But on the average, DI-AA is stronger. I have traveled to UC Davis, Cal Poly SLO, and Southern Utah to watch the Bison in the past two years. The change in the Bison team is remarkable. They are becoming bigger, faster, quicker, and deeper. It can't be denied. The caliber of play has definitely gone up.

I can't compare it to UND. But I "can" compare it to SU teams of the last 5 to 10 years. And there is no comparison. The caliber of play is way up.

If UND wants to stay in D2 and be a dominant force...I have no problem with it. If they move up...I have no problem either. Each to his own.

Rather than get in my face about being an imposter and a troller....maybe some of you could cut me a little slack...and even consider discussing these issues more neutrally. But maybe this isn't the place to do it.

I will say that living in Southern California has changed my perspective. From down here, North Dakota gets little to no attention. UND hockey gets some, but hockey isn't exactly a big deal to most people down here. I have gone to the Frozen Four to watch the Sioux....and cheered wildly. I've even worn Sioux green to the games.

Perhaps my earlier postings got too emotional and some of my replies were too harsh. That's not what I came here for. I came here to declare that it is possible to be for "both" schools, and that I would like to see the hatred ease off.

I will be going to Bisonville.com to communicate some of these same feelings and beliefs.

Finally....I think that both schools and communities have acted immaturely. The blame game is counterproductive....and frankly....stupid. No one will win this game.

Finally...I think that a cooling off period is needed if the two schools were to compete again. And I apologize to UND if NDSU should have waited for UND to consider the move up....but you need to understand just how desperate us Bison football fans were to get some high-caliber football back in Fargo.

Bison fans enjoyed the win at Madison. It was a huge surprise. It pumped some energy into people's attitudes. If SU is to survive the move....this kind of thing is crucial once in a while. Yes...a conference is needed.....but I present the chicken or the egg theory. Yes....having a conference lined up would have been better....but football found a temporary conference. The other sports have suffered because of all of the travel....no doubt.

The pissing contest can't be won. So why not try to find even a little piece of middle ground?

I'm finished posting on this site. My message has been stated. You can blast me all that you want. I came here to try to understand....and to state an opinion. It appears that I've failed....and I've been lured into the emotionalism of this unhealthy rivalry. It's like a damn civil war....over athletics. It's gotten way too serious.

Both schools have bragging rights in many areas....including academics.

That's enough. I'll read some of your comments...but I'm likely done posting or responding here. It appears that my outlook doesn't fit in. This is a purely UND discussion board with no room for people that are not totally faithful UND fans....much like bisonville.com.

Grand Forks and Fargo are two great communities. North Dakota is a great state with a small population. The people don't need to be polarized and full of hatred. It's not a healthy rivalry at this time. It is sad.

I'm a jock...but this thing has become far too important....over sports.

[dropTHEgloves]

After that long post I really do not like NDSU

[Sioux27]

After that long of a post I was wondering why the rambling continues to go on..............and on..............and on.............and on..............and on.......................

Please feel free to abandon Siouxsports.com and simply join your friends at bisonville!

[choyt3]

Somewhere out there, there's a person searching frantically for their stolen soapbox.

[redwing77]

Even though I have Miss Informant on Ignore, I can pretty much summarize what he said:

"UND sucks by their own choosing. They should have jumped with all the other good schools. Since they didn't want to toil in a made up conference for as long as we have spending the amount of money we have, they have chosen to stay in a weaker conference so that they can feel good about their decision. God I am glad that I root for NDSU, but please, don't think that I'm an NDSU troll despite the fact that I think NDSU rules and UND sucks. You all are rooting for the second best ND school. I hope you are happy."

Now you don't have to read ANY more of his long arsed posts. Just read this one and you'll understand what his message is.

[informant]

After that long post I really do not like NDSU

And this is precisely the attitude that I wrote about. The three people that have replied are simply here to have a "feel good" UND site. Your insults mean nothing. They only solidify my beliefs. It's going to be really hard to have any sympathy for UND in the future.

And as for jealousy....I'm certainly not jealous. There's nothing to be jealous of. Your attitudes are immature and single-minded.

You don't wanna let facts git in the way. And you certainly don't want opinions.

You people have been a total waste of my time.

After I've read your comments...I don't hate UND, but I can see why SU fans really hate the attitude at UND.

YOU people are the jealous ones. You're jealous because SU made the move. You can deny this, but it's obvious. UND plays D3 caliber football. They would have trouble with a strong St. Johns or Concordia team.

Keep thinking small.

I gave $15,000.00 to UND last year. That's done. It's $30,000.00 to SU next year.

I won't be reading your comments...so don't waste your time. Bye

Former UND fan and supporter.

[Cratter]

And this is precisely the attitude that I wrote about. The three people that have replied are simply here to have a "feel good" UND site. Your insults mean nothing. They only solidify my beliefs. It's going to be really hard to have any sympathy for UND in the future.

And as for jealousy....I'm certainly not jealous. There's nothing to be jealous of. Your attitudes are immature and single-minded.

You don't wanna let facts git in the way. And you certainly don't want opinions.

You people have been a total waste of my time.

After I've read your comments...I don't hate UND, but I can see why SU fans really hate the attitude at UND.

YOU people are the jealous ones. You're jealous because SU made the move. You can deny this, but it's obvious. UND plays D3 caliber football. They would have trouble with a strong St. Johns or Concordia team.

Keep thinking small.

I gave $15,000.00 to UND last year. That's done. It's $30,000.00 to SU next year.

I won't be reading your comments...so don't waste your time. Bye

Former UND fan and supporter.

That's so cute.

[choyt3]

And this is precisely the attitude that I wrote about. The three people that have replied are simply here to have a "feel good" UND site. Your insults mean nothing. They only solidify my beliefs. It's going to be really hard to have any sympathy for UND in the future.

And as for jealousy....I'm certainly not jealous. There's nothing to be jealous of. Your attitudes are immature and single-minded.

You don't wanna let facts git in the way. And you certainly don't want opinions.

You people have been a total waste of my time.

After I've read your comments...I don't hate UND, but I can see why SU fans really hate the attitude at UND.

YOU people are the jealous ones. You're jealous because SU made the move. You can deny this, but it's obvious. UND plays D3 caliber football. They would have trouble with a strong St. Johns or Concordia team.

Keep thinking small.

I gave $15,000.00 to UND last year. That's done. It's $30,000.00 to SU next year.

I won't be reading your comments...so don't waste your time. Bye

Former UND fan and supporter.

D3 calibre?

I bet you haven't given two cents to UND. Ever. Nice try. Not sure if you think you ever fooled anyone into believing that you ever were a fan of both programs. Your posts have easily given that away.

You know what... no one here is going to miss you. There are already enough NDSU trolls that post here. And they are certainly less long-winded than you. They aren't on any high horse. Just take their shots, and move on. Maybe that is a concept that would be better served for you?

[Cratter]

D3 calibre?

For arguements sake lets say we agree: D1A = D1. D1AA = D2. D2=D3.

but what small minded informant doesn't say: NDSU plays D2 caliber football. They would have trouble with a strong UND or GVSU team.

If you believe generalization #1 then you can't argue generalization #2.

'Nuff said.

[SiouxMD]

And this is precisely the attitude that I wrote about. The three people that have replied are simply here to have a "feel good" UND site. Your insults mean nothing. They only solidify my beliefs. It's going to be really hard to have any sympathy for UND in the future.

And as for jealousy....I'm certainly not jealous. There's nothing to be jealous of. Your attitudes are immature and single-minded.

You don't wanna let facts git in the way. And you certainly don't want opinions.

You people have been a total waste of my time.

After I've read your comments...I don't hate UND, but I can see why SU fans really hate the attitude at UND.

YOU people are the jealous ones. You're jealous because SU made the move. You can deny this, but it's obvious. UND plays D3 caliber football. They would have trouble with a strong St. Johns or Concordia team.

Keep thinking small.

I gave $15,000.00 to UND last year. That's done. It's $30,000.00 to SU next year.

I won't be reading your comments...so don't waste your time. Bye

Former UND fan and supporter.

Thank you for your past contributions to UND.

BTW...when are you going to post on Bisonville? If you take the same approach you did here...you might be able to save yourself $30,000.

[star2city]

Informant:

By June, UND will have announced a DI move. Within a year to eighteen months, UND will also have a conference bid in hand, at the same time NDSU receives one. Within 3 years, UND facilities will be the envy of mid-major DI schools (if they aren't already), while NDSU will still be "working" on theirs. Don't let the superficial glitz, demand-it-now, and media-hype world of Southern California crowd your thoughts as there is still a virtue called patience, at least at UND.

UND's leadership has continually been derided as lacking vision by NDSU fans (and some UND fans). Time will disprove those potshots - wait and see. Patience, Informant, patience. For UND, there will be no public humiliation in being rejected by conferences multiple times. UND will have done all of their homework (and I mean ALL) before their move.

BTW, nearly all my relatives are either Mayville Lions, Portland Pirates, or MP Patriots, so I understand your passion for BB.

[PCM]

[homer]

YOU people are the jealous ones. You're jealous because SU made the move. You can deny this, but it's obvious. UND plays D3 caliber football. They would have trouble with a strong St. Johns or Concordia team.

Must have been frustrating to be getting you a$$ kicked by a D3 caliber football team the last ten years before you made the move. The rivalry definately shifted alright. And that "if you can't beat 'em, just stop playing them" attitude really has worked well for you. Even has made you feel D-I

[Uncle_Rico]

NDSU can have this guy.

[dakotadan]

Informant,

I am still trying to figure out what you are trying to accomplish here. We at SS.com do not sit around bashing NDSU and Fargo. The bison are rarely mentioned on this site except for the occasional joke, which is to be expected in a rivalry. However, if you go to bisonville.com and read their message board, there is thread after thread that does nothing more than belittle UND and trash Grand Forks. Member after member there has some remark about UND in their signature lines, avatars, or even their screen names (i.e. ih8dasue). They have even devoted an entire section just for trashing UND and GF.

On the other hand, People on this board very seldom discuss NDSU. We don't have a section devoted to trashing NDSU. Every single thread that is started doesn't end up a UND/ndsu battle. Our signature lines and avatars aren't all anti-bison. You seem to be the only one who wants to keep bringing up the bison on here and inform us how much better their dynasty years were compared to anything UND has (7 DI NCs!) Most of us here are too busy being UND fans and following our own great teams to spend time bashing the ag college. And I admit that I am a Sioux fan that supports a DI move and do read bisonville to see how their teams are doing. But I do not go there and participate in all of the smack talk. I enjoy following how all of the colleges in ND do.

So my question to you is what are you trying to accomplish here? I just can't quite figure it out. I have said this many times: go to bisonville.com and read the thread after thread belittleing UND and Grand Forks and then come back and let us know which school hasn't been able to actually move on.

[gjw007]

And this is precisely the attitude that I wrote about.

After I've read your comments...I don't hate UND, but I can see why SU fans really hate the attitude at UND.

YOU people are the jealous ones. You're jealous because SU made the move. You can deny this, but it's obvious. UND plays D3 caliber football. They would have trouble with a strong St. Johns or Concordia team.

I gave $15,000.00 to UND last year. That's done. It's $30,000.00 to SU next year.

Former UND fan and supporter.

I am amused. I don't post much here but I do read the site regularly. If you were attempting serious dialog in your first post, this post has accomplished everything but suggest that. You even contradict yourself in praising UND's programs in your first post to belittling them in this post. I'm sure that you can understand why people question your motives. There are rabid fans at all universities including UND and NDSU. It could be argued that NDSU made a mistake but it will take years to recognize it and even more if there is a mistake before it is corrected. On the other hand, it might also prove to be good move. The jury is out on this so everything is conjecture. The $35,000,000 question is whether moving up and being competitive in D1AA football is worth foregoing championship quality teams in other sports. I went to UND in 1975 and I felt at that time it should have joined NDSU in going D1AA as Northern Iowa, Montana, and Montana State did. Both would have if geography wasn't an issue. It is still an issue. At the end of the day, what is gained by going D1AA other than saying that you are a D1 program?

[informant]

I am amused. I don't post much here but I do read the site regularly. If you were attempting serious dialog in your first post, this post has accomplished everything but suggest that. You even contradict yourself in praising UND's programs in your first post to belittling them in this post. I'm sure that you can understand why people question your motives. There are rabid fans at all universities including UND and NDSU. It could be argued that NDSU made a mistake but it will take years to recognize it and even more if there is a mistake before it is corrected. On the other hand, it might also prove to be good move. The jury is out on this so everything is conjecture. The $35,000,000 question is whether moving up and being competitive in D1AA football is worth foregoing championship quality teams in other sports. I went to UND in 1975 and I felt at that time it should have joined NDSU in going D1AA as Northern Iowa, Montana, and Montana State did. Both would have if geography wasn't an issue. It is still an issue. At the end of the day, what is gained by going D1AA other than saying that you are a D1 program?

Through my experience at SiouxSports.com, I've learned about the sickening level of hatred that this rivalry has turned into. UND fans are jealous as hell of the Bison victory at Wisconsin. And they're jealous as hell of the progress of SU football. And the recruiting has been amazing. UND has been almost completely shut out. This is all about jealousy at UND. I've lost any interest in UND sports. I tried to explain that I was interested in both schools. UND faithfuls want no part of it. Yir either fir or agin. There's no room for debate here. You're a part of it. The move up to DI-AA in Fargo is already a success. Money is no object in Fargo as long as the caliber of play is high. People will fill the Fargodome to watch SU play Montana, Cal Poly, UC Davis, SDSU, Montana State, among others. Fargo is a filthy rich community that will host DI-AA and DI athletics with great success. I doubt that UND and the Grand Forks community is capable. The attitudes here tell the story quite well. I've heard the same attitude from UND fans during my recent visits to Mayville. It has been confirmed here. Mayville people are laughing about beating UND in basketball....and they hope that Glas will get a contract extension.

I'm not amused. It's sickening to read the attitudes on this site.

[ND Hockey 4]

I won't be reading your comments...so don't waste your time. Bye

What happened to that plan of yours?

[choyt3]

Through my experience at SiouxSports.com, I've learned about the sickening level of hatred that this rivalry has turned into. UND fans are jealous as hell of the Bison victory at Wisconsin. And they're jealous as hell of the progress of SU football. And the recruiting has been amazing. UND has been almost completely shut out. This is all about jealousy at UND. I've lost any interest in UND sports. I tried to explain that I was interested in both schools. UND faithfuls want no part of it. Yir either fir or agin. There's no room for debate here. You're a part of it. The move up to DI-AA in Fargo is already a success. Money is no object in Fargo as long as the caliber of play is high. People will fill the Fargodome to watch SU play Montana, Cal Poly, UC Davis, SDSU, Montana State, among others. Fargo is a filthy rich community that will host DI-AA and DI athletics with great success. I doubt that UND and the Grand Forks community is capable. The attitudes here tell the story quite well. I've heard the same attitude from UND fans during my recent visits to Mayville. It has been confirmed here. Mayville people are laughing about beating UND in basketball....and they hope that Glas will get a contract extension.

I'm not amused. It's sickening to read the attitudes on this site.

You learned in these forums, in a thread titled "time to give credit where credit is due", that "UND fans are jealous as hell of the Bison victory at Wisconsin"?

Again, you initially came on here PREACHING to Sioux fans. You proceeded to post diatribes in an attempt to "convince" Sioux fans that NDSU is so much better. You then get called on that and make this ridiculous assertion that you will no longer give "your usual" $15,000 donation to UND. No one believes that you EVER gave a dime to UND. If you feel so strongly in your support of UND that you can read some posts on a freaking message board and decide that you will no longer support UND, trust me, UND doesn't need you. You have been taking subtle jabs at UND in each lengthy post that you have made on here. Good for you.

Go on and enjoy all of the success that NDSU is having.

[PCM]

Through my experience at SiouxSports.com, I've learned about the sickening level of hatred that this rivalry has turned into.

If I based my impressions of schools on what sports fans wrote on Internet message boards, I'd believe that NDSU was a seething pit of hatred because of what's posted at bisonville.com every day. As others have pointed out, that site devotes an entire forum to nothing but bashing UND and the members there take great pride in it. That type of behavior isn't allowed here and people have been suspended for engaging in NDSU smack talk, which means that your statement makes you a major hypocrite.

UND fans are jealous as hell of the Bison victory at Wisconsin.

Some might be, but I think most Sioux fans are better at keeping it in perspective than NDSU fans. You think it's jealousy. I think it's UND fans saying: be realistic.

And they're jealous as hell of the progress of SU football. And the recruiting has been amazing. UND has been almost completely shut out.

That's your opinion, which has no basis in fact.

There's no room for debate here.

There are some Bison fans and some Sioux fans here who are willing to debate issues without resorting to smack talk. I've been involved in some of those discussions, so I know they happen.

The move up to DI-AA in Fargo is already a success.

If your definintion of success is "at least the roof hasn't fallen in," then, yes, I guess you could say that it's been successful. It's way too early to declare NDSU's move a success. I'm not saying it won't be, only that nobody can make that statement with any credibility at this point.

Money is no object in Fargo as long as the caliber of play is high.

Are you really that naive? Money is a problem everywhere, especially at NDSU because of the move to DI. You're fooling yourself if you don't recognize that.

I doubt that UND and the Grand Forks community is capable.

And if you're right, it would make absolutely no sense for UND to move to DI, would it?

[informant]

What success?

Wisconsin.....Montana.....top 25 in DI-AA their first two years in the division.....women's basketball wins over Alabama and Georgetown....and in the past....

Bison National Championships in Football

National Championships (Poll) 1965, 1968, 1969

National Championships (Playoff) 1983, 1985, 1986, 1988, 1990

National Championships (Poll) 1965, 1968, 1969

National Championships (Playoff) 1983, 1985, 1986, 1988, 1990

Playoff Appearances 1976, 1977, 1981, 1982, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1986,

1988, 1989, 1990, 1991, 1992, 1994, 1995, 1997,

2000

Conference Championships 1925, 1932, 1935, 1964, 1965, 1966, 1967, 1968,

1969, 1970, 1972, 1973, 1974, 1976, 1977, 1981,

1982, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1986, 1988, 1990, 1991,

1992, 1994

Add a few in women's basketball, wrestling, cross country, and track.

OK....I'll give the Canadian South Team a few.

[dakotadan]

1959 DI Men's Hockey National Champions

1963 DI Men's Hockey National Champions

1980 DI Men's Hockey National Champions

1982 DI Men's Hockey National Champions

1987 DI Men's Hockey National Champions

1997 DI Men's Hockey National Champions

1997 DII Women's Basketball National Champions

1998 DII Women's Basketball National Champions

1999 DII Women's Basketball National Champions

2000 DI Men's Hockey National Champions

2001 DII Football National Champions

[Uncle_Rico]

I won't be reading your comments...so don't waste your time. Bye

Former UND fan and supporter.

[Supertrex]

And this is precisely the attitude that I wrote about. The three people that have replied are simply here to have a "feel good" UND site. Your insults mean nothing. They only solidify my beliefs. It's going to be really hard to have any sympathy for UND in the future.

And as for jealousy....I'm certainly not jealous. There's nothing to be jealous of. Your attitudes are immature and single-minded.

You don't wanna let facts git in the way. And you certainly don't want opinions.

You people have been a total waste of my time.

After I've read your comments...I don't hate UND, but I can see why SU fans really hate the attitude at UND.

YOU people are the jealous ones. You're jealous because SU made the move. You can deny this, but it's obvious. UND plays D3 caliber football. They would have trouble with a strong St. Johns or Concordia team.

Keep thinking small.

I gave $15,000.00 to UND last year. That's done. It's $30,000.00 to SU next year.

I won't be reading your comments...so don't waste your time. Bye

Former UND fan and supporter.

And here we thought you said you were done posting...

[redwing77]

If I based my impressions of schools on what sports fans wrote on Internet message boards, I'd believe that NDSU was a seething pit of hatred because of what's posted at bisonville.com every day. As others have pointed out, that site devotes an entire forum to nothing but bashing UND and the members there take great pride in it. That type of behavior isn't allowed here and people have been suspended for engaging in NDSU smack talk, which means that your statement makes you a major hypocrite.

Some might be, but I think most Sioux fans are better at keeping it in perspective than NDSU fans. You think it's jealousy. I think it's UND fans saying: be realistic.

That's your opinion, which has no basis in fact.

There are some Bison fans and some Sioux fans here who are willing to debate issues without resorting to smack talk. I've been involved in some of those discussions, so I know they happen.

If your definintion of success is "at least the roof hasn't fallen in," then, yes, I guess you could say that it's been successful. It's way too early to declare NDSU's move a success. I'm not saying it won't be, only that nobody can make that statement with any credibility at this point.

Are you really that naive? Money is a problem everywhere, especially at NDSU because of the move to DI. You're fooling yourself if you don't recognize that.

And if you're right, it would make absolutely no sense for UND to move to DI, would it?

What's the point PCM? Reasoning with a guy who calls himself a "former UND supporter" because he thinks that will get us to listen to him? All he does is badmouth UND and NOTHING you or anyone here can say will change his mind.

Ignore him. Everyone should ignore him. A man with an audience can garner an opinion. A man without an audience is just talking to himself.