Student Behavior @ The Ralph

[The Sicatoka]

The only thing I want to add to this discussion is if we are going to hold the students to these standards, than everyone in the arena should be held to the same level of standards. The profanity heard from my section of non-students is really bad on some nights.

I agree:

- don't stand just to stand, especially in someone else's view

- don't run the "R"-rated mouth

- public drunkeness is against the law (ask Ron White, he was thrown out of a bar in New York City )

Seems simple to me.

[airmail]

So when you were all 18 and 19, you liked it when 45-60 year olds were telling you what you could and could not do? You enjoyed feeeling you were being bossed around? I doubt it. When you are 18 or 19, I think you were just like 18 or 19 year old ares now. You had a sense of entitlement, it was all about you. And if you weren't, why make the generalization that all students are now? Because all students certainly aren't. Students nowadays could say many things about your generation that aren't neccessarily totally true.

Diggler, you bring up some good points... to a point. When I was that age, you are right... I didn't like to be bossed around, and I suppose I thought I could get away with pretty much everything when it came to hockey games. (evident by the number of "half glasses of coke" that were ordered from concessions)

Entitlement, however, is something different. I never thought that it was my right to go to these games, rather my privelege. I never thought that if I broke the rules there wouldn't be consequences. If I was approached by one of these 45-60 year olds that you speak of, I treated them respectfully... even if I was thinking something different.

As I've posted before, I sit in 107... closer to the student isle than the other one. I can put up with the language, and if the standing occurs when "play calls for it", I'm okay with that too. But some of the blatant disregard and disrespect for the staff at REA really drives me crazy. I've personally witnessed, and a number of times, a verbal lashing of the REA ushers by students. Whether the staff is young, old, or elderly, it doesn't matter... the student will say whatever they want, however they want. REA is partly to blame in this because they never kick anyone out for such rude behavior to set an example. Maybe the students should be forced to bring a grandparent to each game to accompany them. Then grandma can kick some manners into their arses like they should've done 18 years earlier.

Granted, this doesn't mean the whole student section is doing this. It does, however, completely remove any symapthy that I have for the student section and their seating trouble.

[dagies]

Are you ok? Are you adjusting to being on the outside? Do you need a suport group?

Did you see The Shawshank Redemption? We should be worried.

[THETRIOUXPER]

Just wait a few years when most of these "kids" have graduated and are sitting in other seats in the arena, I'd bet anything their point of view is going to change, especially if they are bringing their kids to the games.

[teamsioux]

I would like to know why there were so many questions about # of seats...the students have not even come close to selling out except for maybe the Gophers. The big series like Wisconsin and Denver had hundreds of empty seats left over for the public to buy. The first thing the students should worry about is getting their butts in the seats.

Another point is why the insistence on standing up when 95% of the time they are not saying anything, I think the standing would be much more accepted if they actually were making noise more often. At least 2/3 of them are there to be at the social event of the evening and have no clue. I sat by some students in the upper bowl during the Denver series and he had no clue who Bina or Paukovich was, when he figured out Bina was the one with the broken neck last year, he thought it was a Sioux teammate who had hurt him in practice, btw he considered himself a "big" college hockey fan.

[jloos]

I think one of the big problems with the student section is the same problem with the season ticket holders. Too many attend the games as a social gathering, not to watch a hockey game. When I sat in the student section I was very surprised at the number of students who had no idea what was going on at ice level. These were the students who felt the need to stand all the time and swear constantly.

That is the price to pay for the new REA. It is going to be more corporate and will never be what the old REA was.

On the other hand, the student section has been unfairly targeted and policed. I can remember a game two or three years ago against BC. The Sioux were losing by a couple of goals and mounted a big comeback in the third period. Many of the students there to socialize left after the second period. That third period was rocking. After the Sioux scored less than a minute into the period, the students stood most of the first half of the period, as the Sioux kept scoring. After that game there were many complaints about the students standing and being too loud. If I remember right the Sioux scored 3 or 4 goals in less than 10 minutes. That was a time to make a ton of noise and stand most of the time. After things quieted down the students eventually sat, but still a few complained.

From what I have seen, the students have brought much of this on themselves. Many of them do not know the game and do not know how to act at a game. At the same time it appears the admin is going too far and generalizing the entire student section rather than trying to come up with a realistic solution. Personally I expect the student section to be full of immature 18-21 year olds. Guess what, many 18-21 year olds are obnoxious. Unfortunately some have taken their immaturity too far. Personally I think the best thing to do would be have the students police themselves. With the right supervision I think this could be done successfully. The student government should be involved, and they could work with REA officials.

I hope my grammer and spelling are ok ND Pride

[soohockey15]

This is the perspective of his generation. They think they are entitled to act like morons and nothing should be done to them, no one takes any personal responsibility anymore. This generation doesnt care and they think they are ENTITLED to do what ever they feeling doing in the stands, eff the person that paid 20,000 to 40,000 for their suite, I am going to school here. This is my college I pay tution. The sad reality is that they are the ones that are going to be paying your retirement after you have retired if there is still social security when you retire. So you beter save for your retirement. Its only going to get worse.

I think I will rescind my idea of having them sit where UND shoots twice I have a better idea. Maybe we should put a huge television screen outside where they can watch the game they we can let the say all of the eff bombs that they want while not being able to offend anyone in the crowd.

You know something else? All African-Americans LOVE watermelon and fried chicken and wear baggy clothes and carry guns and are phenomenal athletes. And all Asians are just great at math. And all Jewish people are just out to get our hard earned money. What? Was that stereotypical? Just like your entire post? Yes, there are some students who feel this way, but my guess is that most don't. It isn't like the University is going to make them sit down and be quiet all game. Students can still yell as loud as they want, but minus the f-bombs. That's really the only word they (the University) should be concerned about. It's not our (the student's) arena, it is the University's, and like it or not, they are actually allowed to do whatever the hell they want with it.

[Eskimos]

This is the perspective of his generation. They think they are entitled to act like morons and nothing should be done to them, no one takes any personal responsibility anymore. This generation doesnt care and they think they are ENTITLED to do what ever they feeling doing in the stands, eff the person that paid 20,000 to 40,000 for their suite, I am going to school here. This is my college I pay tution. The sad reality is that they are the ones that are going to be paying your retirement after you have retired if there is still social security when you retire. So you beter save for your retirement. Its only going to get worse.

I think I will rescind my idea of having them sit where UND shoots twice I have a better idea. Maybe we should put a huge television screen outside where they can watch the game they we can let the say all of the eff bombs that they want while not being able to offend anyone in the crowd.

This is the old and worn out argument that all generations say about the younger generations.

[PCM]

I think one of the big problems with the student section is the same problem with the season ticket holders. Too many attend the games as a social gathering, not to watch a hockey game. When I sat in the student section I was very surprised at the number of students who had no idea what was going on at ice level. These were the students who felt the need to stand all the time and swear constantly.

That is the price to pay for the new REA.

I'll engage in some myth-busting here. The exact same thing was going on in the old REA. When I was shooting pictures in the old arena, I was frequently in the student sections and surrounded by people who were obviously there to flirt and socialize. They had very little interest in what was happening on the ice.

EDIT: Before anyone jumps on me, I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with students going to games to flirt and socialize. That's part of the student experience. I am saying that it doesn't have much, if anything, to do with the new arena.

Edited January 19, 2006 by PCM

[WiSioux]

Here's the article from today's Grand Forks Herald...

REA: Line in the stands AD bargains with students over REA behavior

"I'd like to say I don't want to hear words here that I wouldn't hear in church, but I'd be naive," Buning said.

It wasn't long before students asked what the limits might be.

Andrew Howard, a graduate student, said he understands that students wouldn't be able to say some of the more vulgar four-letter words. But can they say "ass" or "bitch" or "hell," he asked, all words allowed in PG-13 movies.

"The last time I checked in church, there's a lot of 'damns' and 'hells,'" Buning said by way of reply. "But if I hear another chant with the 'F' word, we've got a serious problem."

If there is something in the Dakota Student tomorrow, I will post that as well...

[Goon]

So when you were all 18 and 19, you liked it when 45-60 year olds were telling you what you could and could not do? You enjoyed feeeling you were being bossed around? I doubt it. When you are 18 or 19, I think you were just like 18 or 19 year old ares now. You had a sense of entitlement, it was all about you. And if you weren't, why make the generalization that all students are now? Because all students certainly aren't. Students nowadays could say many things about your generation that aren't neccessarily totally true.

I agree with you to a point because when I was in the military during basic training someone brought up the point that I have no right, and the Drill SGT said sure you do. You have the right to sing as loud as possible during marching. Everyone looked at him really confused. In other words, you claim all of these rights and entitlements, however, there are sacrifices that go along with these things.

The point being is that you are always going to be bossed around so you might want to get used to it. Its the way of the work world, the real world. In the real world if you boss tells you to do something and you tell him to go pound sand, I hope you have your resume written up because your going to get fired. If you come in to work late because you feel your entitle to get drunk the night before, after three times your probably going to get fired.

Edited January 19, 2006 by Goon

[The Sicatoka]

1a. We lose $300,000 a year because of you.

Bad word choice. They could make another $300k if they sold those seats to other fans (and that sounds low to me almost).

1c. Student fees make up 9% of the athletic budget.

That roughly matches the projected FY 04 budget numbers I have. Back then mens hockey tickets were about 40% of the budget and Fighting Sioux Club dues were another 25%.

1d. UNH has $6 million in student fees go to the athletic department.

1e. UND only has $900,000.

UNH's enrollment isn't that much bigger than UND's. (14300 v. 13000).

UND now --> $900k/13000 = ~$70 per student.

UNH now --> $6 MM/14300 = ~$420 per student.

UND at UNH levels --> $6MM/13000 = ~$460 per student, a mere $400 more per year.

Who's up for seven times today's student fees?

Look what you'd get!

1f. If UND gave $6 million in student fees to the athletic department, students would get half of the lower bowl.

That'd solve the standing problem.

What do you want? What are you willing to pay?

Season ticket holders have to make those same decisions. (Do they want lower bowl? Can they afford it?)

[Northcountry]

On the "time - honored" tradition of UND students standing during hockey games: This "tradition" began when Athletic Director Roger Thomas initiated a program of "rush seating" to allow the general public to purchase student seats that were not being used. To determine the number that could be sold, a count of empty seats was done at the beginning of the game and 5 minutes into the period that number of seats were put on sale with the buyer then "rushing" to find an unoccupied spot to sit. Student response to this program was predictably negative and students organized a campaign to not sit down so that officials would not be able to accurately count available seats and the student section not be subjected to the presence of the unwanted, unwashed rubes and their families who otherwise had no chance of attending games. Students as a group tend to be self-centered and selfish, concerned only with their own rights and priviledges, and generally uncaring about anyone or anything outside of their sphere.

When I write my check for season tickets I am purchasing the rights to a "SEAT", not a designated standing space although there are several occasions in every game that literally "pull me out of my seat" and you can witness a literal "wave" of rising people in response to the action. There is a way to be a part of the game and at the same time respect the rights and space of others.

[AZSIOUX]

I think one of the big problems with the student section is the same problem with the season ticket holders. Too many attend the games as a social gathering, not to watch a hockey game. When I sat in the student section I was very surprised at the number of students who had no idea what was going on at ice level. These were the students who felt the need to stand all the time and swear constantly.

That is the price to pay for the new REA. It is going to be more corporate and will never be what the old REA was.

On the other hand, the student section has been unfairly targeted and policed. I can remember a game two or three years ago against BC. The Sioux were losing by a couple of goals and mounted a big comeback in the third period. Many of the students there to socialize left after the second period. That third period was rocking. After the Sioux scored less than a minute into the period, the students stood most of the first half of the period, as the Sioux kept scoring. After that game there were many complaints about the students standing and being too loud. If I remember right the Sioux scored 3 or 4 goals in less than 10 minutes. That was a time to make a ton of noise and stand most of the time. After things quieted down the students eventually sat, but still a few complained.

From what I have seen, the students have brought much of this on themselves. Many of them do not know the game and do not know how to act at a game. At the same time it appears the admin is going too far and generalizing the entire student section rather than trying to come up with a realistic solution. Personally I expect the student section to be full of immature 18-21 year olds. Guess what, many 18-21 year olds are obnoxious. Unfortunately some have taken their immaturity too far. Personally I think the best thing to do would be have the students police themselves. With the right supervision I think this could be done successfully. The student government should be involved, and they could work with REA officials.

I hope my grammer and spelling are ok ND Pride

i think we all need to get over the "too many people at the ralph for a social gathering instead of a hockey game" thing. when you can get about 12,000 people into a arena in g forks which is great itself, you cant expect all fans or people at the game to be die hard sioux or hockey fans like we are. its just not going to happen...this happens everywhere...

[jloos]

I'll engage in some myth-busting here. The exact same thing was going on in the old REA. When I was shooting pictures in the old arena, I was frequently in the student sections and surrounded by people who were obviously there to flirt and socialize. They had very little interest in what was happening on the ice.

EDIT: Before anyone jumps on me, I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with students going to games to flirt and socialize. That's part of the student experience. I am saying that it doesn't have much, if anything, to do with the new arena.

I agree. I graduated from college (NDSU, but don't hold that against me) before the new REA was built and attended many Sioux games. My point was not that this did not happen before, only that it is on a much bigger scale now. This is not so much a "problem" as a fact of life. Obviously the new arena must attract more of the "casual" fan to fill up seats. Overall I think this is a good thing. However, I think many of these "casual" fans are a big part of the problems. The casual student fan appears more obnoxious and there just to get drunk and make an ass out of himself. The casual non-student fan appears more interested in being seen and makes a bigger deal about what he perceives as the drunken student crowd.

There is no way to make both sides happy all the time. As a great poet once wrote, "you can't always get what you want". If the problem is as bad as they claim, both sides need to give a little. The students need to start policing their own and showing more respect. The people complaining about the students need to realize that college students are not supposed conduct themselves with the upmost maturity, especially at a hockey game.

Just my opinion. Instead of working on a solution, I foresee the students being to immature and the administration being to militaristic to actually compromise on anything.

[Sioux-cia]

i think we all need to get over the "too many people at the ralph for a social gathering instead of a hockey game" thing. when you can get about 12,000 people into a arena in g forks which is great itself, you cant expect all fans or people at the game to be die hard sioux or hockey fans like we are. its just not going to happen...this happens everywhere...

AMEN!!

[MafiaMan]

AMEN!!

I was at Target Center a few weeks ago for a Timberwolves game...two attorneys next to me were busy hammering out an agreement between NWA and their striking mechanics.

[Goon]

i think we all need to get over the "too many people at the ralph for a social gathering instead of a hockey game" thing. when you can get about 12,000 people into a arena in g forks which is great itself, you cant expect all fans or people at the game to be die hard sioux or hockey fans like we are. its just not going to happen...this happens everywhere...

Yeah, maybe but I would like them to at least wait till the play is stopped before they head to the beer stand and tell their kids that aren't watching the game to please wait to stand up and move after the play has stopped too. Also, please use your phone between periods when it doesn't bother anyone.

In the upper deck its not as bad as down low.

[The Sicatoka]

In the upper deck its not as bad as down low.

Don't be so sure ....

[Goon]

Don't be so sure ....

No I mean in section 303 we don't have as much of the same b.s. as you some who sit in the lower bowl.

Most of the people who sit in our section sit on their hands or don't come at all.

[Sioux_Yeah_Yeah]

Student section this weekend should be interesting... to say the least haha!! I guess we'll see how it goes!

[SiouxTupa]

How about this...

"You can please some of the people, some of the time; and some of the people, some of the time. But you can't please some of the people, some of the time."

I think that holds true here...

[WiSioux]

Here are two of the articles from today's Dakota Student:

Taking stock in fan behavior

The DS View: "Flat-ass rules"

[Sioux_Yeah_Yeah]

How about this...

"You can please some of the people, some of the time; and some of the people, some of the time. But you can't please some of the people, some of the time."

I think that holds true here...

I don't get it...... It's all the same words, I don't understand!

[Sioux-cia]

Here are two of the articles from today's Dakota Student:

Taking stock in fan behavior

The DS View: "Flat-ass rules"

Are the DS editors grammer school students?

While we agree that chants laced with profanity are not creative and are obscene, merely stating that profanity is not allowed in the arena will not solve the problem. Students need to be presented with an alternative, and on Wednesday, no alternatives were presented.

They actually need someone to tell them what alternatives there are to profanity!!? I'm speechless.