NCC of the Future

[The Sicatoka]

The money needed for the move would impact the hockey budget.

JBB:

Could it be that hockey is the priority at some of these schools in question and that their priorities differ from those at NDSU (whose priority is football)? Isn't that alone an acceptable answer to the situation?

Most of the schools in question are in Minnesota and Minnesota tends to produce a significant number of DI hockey talent and has significant interest in hockey. It only makes sense for them to treat hockey as a priority.

You don't have to like or agree with their priorities, you just need to acknowledge that there may be differing priorities.

[JBB]

I think that

[choyt3]

The puzzling thing for me has been the effort put forth by your institution and its constituencies to try and discourage the move by NDSU.

[SDSUFAN]

As Jim has tried endlessly to explain to you, the NCC IS A D-II conference. Hockey is not a sponsored sport of the NCC. Never has been, never will be. You sure give a lot of credit to the five schools that do sponsor hockey. I would think that if they voted as a group on issues (pretty sure they did not) that there would have been five other schools that would have voted together in opposition. If you were to check the notes from numerous NCC meetings, you would find UND and NDSU for the most part having the same goals and ideas for the league. UND and NDSU, together. The issues among the schools in the NCC weren't split hockey/no hockey. It was haves (UND and NDSU) vs. have nots.

There was one time and a very signifcant time that the five hockey schools voted as a block. Last spring when President Miller of SDSU brought forward the proposal to move the NCC in mass to D1AA, the five hockey schools and Augustanta voted nyet in Russian, Nei in Norwegian and No in English.

[JBB]

Maybe Mr. Hoyt didnt listen to Shoutin' ed schultz go on and on this summer until he was apparently muzzled? Maybe Mr. Hoyt didnt read the local paper? Maybe Mr. Hoyt didnt listen to the president of his insittution? Maybe Mr. Hoyt doesnt read the posts on this forum and others? Maybe Mr. Hoyt cant understand that the NCC is indeed a seperate league from the various DI hockey leagues but as a DII conference its fortunes are decided by the Hockey schools. Sometimes they have the same concerns and solutions as the others, and, as Mr. Husby has pointed out sometimes not. The NCC should be a DI conference but the special interest of the hockey schools have prevented that.

I think the way it has turned out is the best. I also believe what I have said about the future of the NCC will turn out to be true. Why? It best serves the hockey schools.

[choyt3]

I get it now, JBB. You, as an extension of NDSU, are threatened by UND. That can be the only explanation of your hostility towards UND. What does it matter now what Ed Schultz said this past summer, JBB? What does it matter now what the GF Herald wrote about NDSU's move to D-I(AA), JBB? What does it matter now what some posters on this and other message boards said about NDSU's move this past summer, JBB? Last I heard, NDSU was moving up and UND was 'NOT MOVING UP AT THIS TIME'. A couple of posters on this, and others, message board aren't going to change that. Or are they?

I indeed understand that the NCC has since it's inception been a NCAA D-II athletic conference. Three of the hockey playing schools are relatively new programs (last 10 to 15 years). There are actually FOUR hockey programs at schools in the NCC. That is not even a majority of the conference. Take a look back through the years and you will see that most of the time UND and NDSU were on an island together when it came to the NCC. That is fact.

Maybe it is time, JBB, for your infatuation with what happens at UND to cease.

Mr. Administrator, we definitely need an 'IGNORE' feature. Thank you.

[ScottM]

Clayton, ever since I lived in Fargo and graduated HS there, 'SU and its barely literate alums have always had an infatuation for UND. You can see it in the media and Chappie's comments about dragging UND into D1, so it has a natural rival at that level. Ooops. Serious miscalculation.

Whether it's D1 sports, research dollars, or the name change issue, 'SU spends more time worrying about what its older, more prominent foe does than its own affairs. It must be one of the inherent flaws of being a land grant, ag college that seldom makes a footnote on the national stage.

It kind of reminds me of that other sibling rivalry on the "Brady Bunch" where Jan ('SU in this instance) is always worried and whining about "Marsha, Marsha, Marsha!". Sad, but true.

So, Clayton, let Jethro and the rest of the Stream Yellow crowd have their fun. Soon, they'll disappear into the D1AA abyss playing Middle of Nowhere State in front of 5 'SU boosters who happen to live in the area.

[JBB]

Mr. Hoyte, the reason that those things are brought up is because you asked about them. The only reason Im here is to provide a balance to your own (collectively) negative infatuation with NDSU. Its very interesting how narrow minded and unsophisticated many of you are. Dare I say hayseeds? Mr. Hoyte is at the top of the list. He asked about the effort being put forth by the UND constituency against the NDSU Decision I. When he gets the answer he acts baffled a lot like that other hayseed Barney Fife when he got to Mt. Pilot and asked about the coaching job in Sacramento.

It all matters because there is very little that's benign about your institution. Proof lies in the history. I dont expect you know much beyond last years football title. As NDSU continues to grow Im sure many of you will get more shrill and make even less sense. Try and remember what you've said so you can begin to comprehend the replies. Ignore is not that far from ignorant. What we need is an ignorant feature to make some of you a little more cognitive.

Its a blissful world when your left to your own fantasies. When your challenged with balancing thoughts you seem to lose composure and get vindictive.

[jimdahl]

It never fails to amaze me how so many of you on this board turn to the personal attack when you feel your are being backed into a corner by superior argument.

So THAT'S what's responsible for the following personal attacks:

Its very interesting how narrow minded and unsophisticated many of you are.  Dare I say hayseeds?

When he gets the answer he acts baffled a lot like that other hayseed Barney Fife

Im sure many of you will get more shrill and make even less sense.

What we need is an ignorant feature to make some of you a little more cognitive.

(All quotes JBB)

The only reason Im here is to provide a balance to your own (collectively) negative infatuation with NDSU.

Hardly. This thread had NOTHING to do with NDSU. It's about the future of the NCC, which NDSU is leaving. Attacking UND, Grand Forks, all their fans, and now the NCC does not provide any sort of pro-NDSU sentiment, it just reveals your true motivations.

[PCM]

Attacking UND, Grand Forks, all their fans, and now the NCC does not provide any sort of pro-NDSU sentiment, it just reveals your true motivations.

Yep.

[SDSUFAN]

Does the NCC have a future?

[star2city]

Does the NCC have a future?

SDSUFAN:

In your giddiness over the South Dakota Board of Higher Ed's allowance of SDSU to move to Division I (which you swore up and down would be disallowed because of the politics of USD graduates - so much for the anti-SDSU conspiracy!), you seem to forget one 'tiny' hurdle that dear President Miller and AD Oien have yet to clear and have expressed considerable concern about: what will be SDSU's Div I conference? Who will invite SDSU to the palatial mansion you're looking for?

Only a fool would set fire to the prairie rambler he's now living in.

Apparently UMinnesota-Duluth has more than enough confidence in the future of the NCC.

In a year from now, on a cold blizzardy night, when no one has invited SDSU to any party, SDSU's leadership will come to the NCC door, with frostbitten faces, tails between their legs, hats in hands, and ask for a hot meal and a bed to stay in. Its a cruel, cruel Division I world out there, and President Miller, AD Oien, and SDSUFAN will be heartbroken when all their big-city wanderings yield no Division I hospitality.

At that time, they'll take immense comfort in the NCC, which will still be standing, like a lighted fortress in the prairie night, for the prodigal sons and daughters gone astray.

[SDSUFAN]

star2city:

Very funny. I am so glad that you have painted a bright picture for athletics at SDSU. Conspiracy no, internal jealousy from USD yes. Getting the Board of Regents to approve the move was not an easy task. It took homework and thats what happened and was shown at the public forum in Sioux Falls two weeks ago.

To paint a picture of failure is your choice but I feel things will not be as desperate as you have tried to describe. One year from now and we are out in the cold? How do you know that will happen?

How will UND vote on the NCC membership application by Bemiji State two years from now? Maybe that question is truly the future of the NCC.

[JBB]

[U2Bad1]

Is bemidji st really trying to join the NCC??? My brother might end up playing football there.

[star2city]

It might be tough to tell who started this but since your the older institution my guess is it lies with you.

JBB:

You start a thread on this board entitled

[U2Bad1]

Not to mention that the hockey season has about 14-15 more home games per season.

[tony]

Imagine my delight upon coming to see what you UND guys are talking about today and finding out that putting a pretty hard to spot "Hockey Sucks" on my site. Just to head of the bleats of "But it's right there!" - think "Purloined Letter." Relax, I only put it in there to wind up UND fans. A little touchy, are we? There's no disdain for hockey, just a knowledge that there are a lot of UND guys out there who are INCREDIBLY easy to take the piss out of.

[jimdahl]

Frankly, star2city didn't seem that upset by your slogan (I've never seen it), he was just using it as evidence to make a very valid point.

* It will be decades, if not centuries, before NDSU has 7 D-I titles (frankly, that's a moving target that I suspect UND will increase long before NDSU approaches it)

* UND's hockey gate in a year is more than all of NDSU's D-I sports combined will be

* NDSU has repeatedly tried to add hockey, but can never come up with the money

Trust me, we know why NDSU fans disparage hockey in every venue and forum that they can. No need to explain yourself.

[ScottM]

Actually, Jim, the most obvious reason there's no hockey at 'SU is that it requires fans to **focus** in order to follow the action as the puck and players move about.

If you want to take the D1 hockey gate analogy a bit further, SCCC, Minnesota-Duluth and probably Mankato, to a lesser extent, generally fill their hockey arenas more consistently than their BB and FB venues. Most probably due to higher fan support, a longer season and the D1 teams coming usually have a high degree of name recognition, locally and nationally, e.g. BU, Maine, Minnesota, Yale, Notre Dame, etc.

[pirate]

Putting a "pretty hard to find" h-o-c-k-e-y s-u-c-k-s sign on a bison fan site, would seem to me to be a passive agressive behavior. One of many personality disorders endemic to ac supporters.

[SDSUFAN]

* UND's hockey gate in a year is more than all of NDSU's D-I sports combined will be.

What is taken in at the gate is only a portion of one side of the equation.

Operations and maintence costs are deducted from gate receipts, to determine margin. Margin being the other side of the equation. And what is known by the experts on this matter? Are these numbers published anywhere? How does revenue and cost stack up for one year? How much does hockey produce to support other sports at UND?

If hockey is such a good deal, some one should be able to answer these questions.

[jimdahl]

Nope, profit is irrelevant to my point. My point was the source of NDSU's insecurity and jealousy of UND hockey. It's because of the number of bodies going through the gate (many from Fargo) and national recognition the school gets, not profit.

No one has ever claimed that NDSU is going D-I or has tried repeatedly to add hockey to increase profit.

[bisonguy]

Jim,

I still believe that hockey has not caught on in Fargo. A semi-pro team couldn't stay afloat, and now the ice sheets at the Metro Rec Center will become indoor soccer fields year round. Even with the influx of UND grads, there isn't a large enough fan base. There seems to be a boundary where hockey is popular (Highway 2). When I was at Fargo South(class of '92), hockey was at the bottom of the totem pole, and I doubt it has changed.

[jimdahl]

Yeah, the D-I hockey referendum in Fargo a couple years ago seems to confirm your assessment. It also hurts that the hockey fans in Fargo only have to drive an hour to get to one of the best D-I teams in the country -- it's practically a single market. Despite NDSU's desire to add hockey, there's just not much community support.