The grounds for a lawsuit

[mksioux]

[PCM]

I think you are giving the committee too much credit.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I might be giving the whole dang NCAA too much credit.

[MafiaMan]

If the NCAA finds it offensive (whether they're right or wrong), the First Amendment will not prevent the NCAA from banning it from its tournaments.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And therein lies the true heart of the problem. Even if we win (the pro-keep the name forces), the NCAA may just chuckle and say "good for you guys...now enjoy not being picked for the NCAA tournament or playing any playoff games on the road." I don't know if I like that thought any better.

[PCM]

I'll say it once more: The NCAA doesn't want to go there again.

[Driveforshow]

Any truth to the story that Ralph has the legal rights to the logo that is used at REA. Do to the fact that he has changed a few things in the logo. So since UND rents the buildings from REA will that change anything in the legal end. If you change the name and keep the logo that was designed by the group that is backing UND.

[GCWaters]

First amendment or not?

(1) Pete Rozelle tells Jim McMahon what he can and cannot write on his headband.

(2) A public school tells students which t-shirts can and cannot be worn based on what they believe is offensive or not.

(3) Metrodome workers confiscate signs from fans that they believe are offensive and should not be seen in the dome.

(4) MLB tells a pitcher that he cannot wear his lucky hat in the World Series, having to wear the official Series cap instead.

You make the call...

[UND92,96]

First amendment or not?

(1) Pete Rozelle tells Jim McMahon what he can and cannot write on his headband.

(2) A public school tells students which t-shirts can and cannot be worn based on what they believe is offensive or not.

(3)

[PCM]

You make the call...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Okay. You call the NCAA and tell them they did all that work studying First Amendment case law for nothing. Maybe they'll hire you as their lawyer.

[ScottM]

First amendment or not?

(1) Pete Rozelle tells Jim McMahon what he can and cannot write on his headband.

I don't believe McMahon ever raised a 1st Amendment issue.

(2) A public school tells students which t-shirts can and cannot be worn based on what they believe is offensive or not.

Courts have generally upheld students' rights to self-expression, even if offensive, in public settings.

(3)  Metrodome workers confiscate signs from fans that they believe are offensive and should not be seen in the dome.

See 1.

(4) MLB tells a pitcher that he cannot wear his lucky hat in the World Series, having to wear the official Series cap instead.

Again, see 1. 

You make the call...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Mad Man]

First amendment or not?

(1) Pete Rozelle tells Jim McMahon what he can and cannot write on his headband.

(2) A public school tells students which t-shirts can and cannot be worn based on what they believe is offensive or not.

(3)  Metrodome workers confiscate signs from fans that they believe are offensive and should not be seen in the dome.

(4) MLB tells a pitcher that he cannot wear his lucky hat in the World Series, having to wear the official Series cap instead.

You make the call...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

But it becomes discriminatory when you allow one group of people (FSU, NC-Pembroke, Utah and CMU) to use names and images deemed

[PCM]

That makes absolutely no sense....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I give up.

[Mad Man]

[fightingsioux4life]

Actually the first amendment, the part about freedom of assembly, allows the NCAA to make stupid rules for its voluntary members.

With the exception of forcing the University to remove depictions of Native Americans, though a binding contract was in place.  I have no idea what UND can base its case on.

IowaBison,

Let's put the semantics aside and look at the facts:

1) The NC$$ is a monopoly. It makes Microsoft look altruistic by comparison. You either are a part of the NC$$ or you don't have an athletic department. And don't bring up the NAIA, that is not an option for most schools, including UND.

2) Even those on the anti-nickname side (like the Grand Forks Heraldo) have argued that UND should make the decision, not the NC$$.

3) If the NC$$ gets by with this, what other institutional decisions will they stick their noses into? The ethnic and cultural diversity of the student body? The male-female ratio of the student body? If the NC$$ wins this case, they will in essence own every school's athletic department lock, stock and barrel. By the way, that would include NDSU.

4) If these anti-nickname groups win this war, what other names and symbols will they target next? I think the team name of your school is a possibility. Bison are cultural and spiritual symbols of many Native American tribes. They might argue that the use of the Bison nickname is "hostile and offensive" to them because you are using their cultural symbols for "fun and games". I think that is more possible than most people think. Once they gain an inch, they'll take a mile. Or two.

[PCM]

Not trying to irritate you...you obviously have a great deal of passion for this and, as an Atlanta Braves fan who's gone through somthing similar (though not as bad), I do have some empathy for you guys.

Edited September 9, 2005 by PCM

[IowaBison]

[PCM]

Now which of those arguments are you going to use in court?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Who says that you only have to use one?

[choyt3]

Now which of those arguments are you going to use in court?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah, PCM, which one are you going to use?

[PCM]

Yeah, PCM, which one are you going to use? 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'll only answer that after my nomination to the U.S. Supreme Court becomes official.

[GCWaters]

I'll only answer that after my nomination to the U.S. Supreme Court becomes official.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Holy moly--we're in the presence of greatness and didn't even know it!!!

[PCM]

Holy moly--we're in the presence of greatness and didn't even know it!!! 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nobody ever does.

[IowaBison]

Who says that you only have to use one?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I didn't.

[DamStrait]

I didn't.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

DO NOT FEED THE TROLL! Thank you.

[IowaBison]

DO NOT FEED THE TROLL! Thank you.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So apparently, my bison moniker makes me a troll?

I was simply clarifying that my previous post does not limit the argument to one.

[fightingsioux4life]

[dakotadan]

1) The NC$$ is a monopoly.  It makes Microsoft look altruistic by comparison.  You either are a part of the NC$$ or you don't have an athletic department.  And don't bring up the NAIA, that is not an option for most schools, including UND.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What about the NCCAA?

Then we could be DI in all sports!!!