Media Stories on the Sioux Name

[Gothmog]

What's in a name. gothmog, do you really think that UND picked Fighting Sioux to mock the Sioux nation?

You picked a unique or what you thought was a unique name. gothmog really is two words.

Clarifying gothmog into two words breaks down to goth a noun or goti or gota, anyway were Germanic or one might say "barbarians".

I choose to use mog as being a verb and not a noun. So we all now that mog or mogging as a verb means to walk.

See how easy it is gothmog to turn words around to fit what just one person thinks of your name?

Oh never mind..

First, I think that UND didn't really give a damn whether the name mocked the Sioux or not.

Second, are you actually suggesting that Native American objections to UND's nickname are some sort of cynical linguistic trick? That "Sioux" doesn't really refer to the Dakota people?

[Riverman]

First, I think that UND didn't really give a damn whether the name mocked the Sioux or not.

Second, are you actually suggesting that Native American objections to UND's nickname are some sort of cynical linguistic trick? That "Sioux" doesn't really refer to the Dakota people?

Nope, I don't see that I typed that at all.

[PCM]

First, I think that UND didn't really give a damn whether the name mocked the Sioux or not.

That's not the issue. Do you think UND selected the Fighting Sioux nickname for the purpose of mocking, disresprespecting or otherwise dishonoring the Sioux tribes? Yes or no?

[Gothmog]

That's not the issue. Do you think UND selected the Fighting Sioux nickname for the purpose of mocking, disresprespecting or otherwise dishonoring the Sioux tribes? Yes or no?

My first answer needs no further elaboration.

[Chewey]

First, I think that UND didn't really give a damn whether the name mocked the Sioux or not.

Second, are you actually suggesting that Native American objections to UND's nickname are some sort of cynical linguistic trick? That "Sioux" doesn't really refer to the Dakota people?

[PCM]

My first answer needs no further elaboration.

It answered a question nobody asked.

[Gothmog]

It answered a question nobody asked.

Actually, you're wrong again. It is a perfectly acceptable answer to the question.

[Gothmog]

Actually, you're wrong again. It is a perfectly acceptable answer to the question.

On second thought, I was a little loose with that sentence. What I should have said is "UND didn't really care whether its choice of a nickname offended the Sioux tribes or not."

[DamStrait]

No tribe or tribal government has the right to censorship, whatever their feelings may be towards UND's use of "Fighting Sioux". Quit being willfully ignorant Gothmog. I strongly suspect that your position is due to your being a 'SU backer that hates all things UND.

Jim please show Gothmog and his thinly veiled trolling the door.

Everyone else - DO NOT FEED THE TROLL!

[sioux7>5]

On second thought, I was a little loose with that sentence. What I should have said is "UND didn't really care whether its choice of a nickname offended the Sioux tribes or not."

Once again you are wrong. The name was choose to honor the Sioux Nation. Learn about something before you start making statements that you can not back up. The Sioux Nation should be honored and what better way then to have a major university celebrate their history and heritage, they also make sure that there are programs that are specific to NA. WOW, once again more schools need to look at how UND is celebrating the Sioux nation and learn from them.

[PCM]

On second thought, I was a little loose with that sentence. What I should have said is "UND didn't really care whether its choice of a nickname offended the Sioux tribes or not."

What evidence is there to suggest that any of the Sioux tribes were offended?

[PCM]

No tribe or tribal government has the right to censorship, whatever their feelings may be towards UND's use of "Fighting Sioux". Quit being willfully ignorant Gothmog. I strongly suspect that your position is due to your being a 'SU backer that hates all things UND.

What's so pathetic about the Gothmog's of the world is that they are quite happy to allow the NCAA to run roughshod over member schools they dislike, refusing to understand that the same flagrant abuse of power that hurt UND can just as easily be used against the schools they like.

[dakotadan]

Your first point is basically a very weak slippery-slope argument that if the NCAA prevails on this issue they will inevitably impose some sort of politically-correct tyranny. There is not one bit of evidence to support that.

There isn't?

Brand wants more black head coaches

Group wants men out of women's practices

Yet when a literal brawl breaks out at a football game Brandt proceeds to make this statement:

The handling of individual incidents is properly the job of the local college or university.

Seems that Brandt is more worried about his "Politically-correct tyranny" than he is actually controlling what sports teams do on the court, ice or the field.

Gothmog, you really need to open your eyes and mind.

[SiouxMeNow]

I think you are wrong. I have always heard that it is only the tribal leaders and a few others that make a big stink over the nickname. The majority of tribal members supprt UND and like the nickname. I am beginning to think that Gothmog is actually GK in disguise.

REEAALLY??? (if it is...he'd be "borrowing" someones identity again...oops forgot! I'm on "thin ice" )

[The Sicatoka]

There isn't?

Brand wants more black head coaches

Group wants men out of women's practices

Yet when a literal brawl breaks out at a football game Brandt proceeds to make this statement:

Seems that Brandt is more worried about his "Politically-correct tyranny" than he is actually controlling what sports teams do on the court, ice or the field.

Gothmog, you really need to open your eyes and mind.

Toss in

http://board.uscho.com/showpost.php?p=2222...amp;postcount=8

for good measure.

[sioux7>5]

Toss in

http://board.uscho.com/showpost.php?p=2222...amp;postcount=8

for good measure.

I hope you are kidding. There is no way the NCAA actually believes that they can control the local papers. So let me see if I udnerstand. I might be confused or just stupid. If the local papers do not have has many stories about womans sports as they do mens, a school could have sanctions against them. Please tell me I missunderstood you.

[The Sicatoka]

I hope you are kidding. There is no way the NCAA actually believes that they can control the local papers. So let me see if I udnerstand. I might be confused or just stupid. If the local papers do not have has many stories about womans sports as they do mens, a school could have sanctions against them. Please tell me I missunderstood you.

Why would they waste their time looking at it if they didn't have something in mind.

The NCAA can't control the local paper (assumably), but what about a member school's sports information department? If you don't run equal number of stories on your website on women and men ....

Sound crazy? No moreso than "no men in womens practices". And look where we're at already.

[redwing77]

REEAALLY??? (if it is...he'd be "borrowing" someones identity again...oops forgot! I'm on "thin ice" )

We're pro-nicknamers here. So, we're racists anyways. Why not be on thin ice too?

You have to remember the types of people that are the most vocal against the nickname (these aren't all of them, but the most vocally anti-nickname for sure) see those who voice opinions on the other side of the aisle as doing so out of racism and intolerance towards the Native Americans.

I think many of us have tried again and again to explain our side of the story but really, it's as Gothmog says: A waste of time. These people cannot handle an opinion different than their own. They see it, not as a dissenting opinion, but rather a personal attack on them or their identity. And they end up throwing out the race card.

So all we can do is keep on explaining our side, even if it falls on deaf ears, or worse, manipulative personalities. I hope we don't grow apathetic to it or give up.

[choyt3]

We're pro-nicknamers here. So, we're racists anyways. Why not be on thin ice too?

You have to remember the types of people that are the most vocal against the nickname (these aren't all of them, but the most vocally anti-nickname for sure) see those who voice opinions on the other side of the aisle as doing so out of racism and intolerance towards the Native Americans.

I think many of us have tried again and again to explain our side of the story but really, it's as Gothmog says: A waste of time. These people cannot handle an opinion different than their own. They see it, not as a dissenting opinion, but rather a personal attack on them or their identity. And they end up throwing out the race card.

So all we can do is keep on explaining our side, even if it falls on deaf ears, or worse, manipulative personalities. I hope we don't grow apathetic to it or give up.

Oh, so you mean like when people criticize how Joe Finley has been playing to this point? Or Lamoureaux? Or any of the freshmen?

[Chief Illiniwek Supporter]

"Pontiac" was the name of an individual not a group.

Florida State uses Osceola, the name of an individual. I am quite sure that the NCAA originally desired to do away with Osceola as well as the name "Seminoles".

Using an individual's name many decades after his death may be questionable, perhaps even offensive, but it really doesn't seem to be quite the same thing as appropriating the name of an existing group of living people. Especially when there is a clear record of opposition to the use of that name from members of that group,

There was a clear record of support for the use of both Osceola and Seminoles. The NCAA tried to ignore that, until they were threatened with the mother of all lawsuits and a huge PC debacle. Then they saw the light.

In any case, the NCAA exists only to organize and regulate college sports, not automobile manufacturers. If you really do have a problem with the name "Pontiac", talk to General Motors not the NCAA.

AFAIK, the NCAA refuses to take money directly from breweries, insisting instead that it be laundered thru bowl committees and television networks. This has nothing to do with regulating sports. OTOH, they confer "official sponsor" status on Pontiac.

[Chief Illiniwek Supporter]

The NCAA has also said that using any symbol or word related to American Indians -- no matter how generic they might be -- is wrong and violates its policy.

No kidding. The schools who used "Braves" found this out. As well as "Tribe". Not to mention "Warriors" and "Red Men" (yes, when it was adopted Red Men was no more racist than either the DePaul Blue Demons or the Big Green of Dartmouth. Of course, it could not be redeemed according to the NCAA.).

[GeauxSioux]

Brand: NCAA stands by nickname ban

Win or lose a legal fight in North Dakota, NCAA president Myles Brand says the association won't back off its controversial restrictions on schools' use of Native American nicknames and mascots.

A state judge handling the University of North Dakota's challenge has urged the sides to settle in advance of a trial scheduled for Dec. 10.

"There are probably ways to reach mediation," Brand said, "but the NCAA will not be changing its position on this. We'll help and work with the university if they so desire, (though) they have not shown any desire at this point."

"We'll pursue this case up to an appeal to the state supreme court if it's necessary; we're committed to that," Brand said. "But this court is not considering anything substantive. They're just looking at the procedural issue of the way the NCAA made its decision. … If we win, that's fine. We think we should. But if we lose, we'll just change our procedures. … The measure is not being challenged. So we're not going to even look at that measure. It's in place. It's done."

Someone said it earlier today. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

I also see in the article where the USA Today had us hosting a I-AA playoff game.

[SiouxMeNow]

Brand: NCAA stands by nickname ban

[Sioux-cia]

We're pro-nicknamers here. So, we're racists anyways. Why not be on thin ice too?

You have to remember the types of people that are the most vocal against the nickname (these aren't all of them, but the most vocally anti-nickname for sure) see those who voice opinions on the other side of the aisle as doing so out of racism and intolerance towards the Native Americans.

I think many of us have tried again and again to explain our side of the story but really, it's as Gothmog says: A waste of time. These people cannot handle an opinion different than their own. They see it, not as a dissenting opinion, but rather a personal attack on them or their identity. And they end up throwing out the race card.

So all we can do is keep on explaining our side, even if it falls on deaf ears, or worse, manipulative personalities. I hope we don't grow apathetic to it or give up.

I think one of the reasons GK hates me so is because I am a minority who supports the Fighting Sioux name and logo. I believe he views me as some sort of racist traitor. Well, he did use other descriptors but I won't repeat them.

You're right when you say the Name Changers don't listen to a word we say. If they do, they manipulate what we say so it fits their 'agenda' which is to say only racists support the Fighting Sioux name and logo.

[GeauxSioux]

I simply cannot get past this one.

But if we lose, we'll just change our procedures. … The measure is not being challenged. So we're not going to even look at that measure. It's in place. It's done."

Is he answerable to no one?