redwing77 Posted November 1, 2005 Share Posted November 1, 2005 If the name is so bad, how can the very group it is "hostile and abusive" towards be split on the issue? Shouldn't it be virtually unanimous among this group of people that the nickname is wrong? Just to quote the apparent 'party line,' there is no split and it is unanimous. They don't count those hang around the fort Indians, Indians who have fully integrated into American society (the 'lost' indians), or Indians that are not full blooded Sioux (even if you are .0000001 of anything else in the bloodline, tough crap. You don't count). Sioux on the reservations who support or don't care about the nickname are shunned into silence. The majority is cowed into cooperation. Even GK has admitted that that is what would happen if someone did speak out on it. Yes, on this issue, certain NA people are holding a number of other NA people hostage ideologically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bincitysioux Posted November 1, 2005 Share Posted November 1, 2005 Just thought this thread on the Pitt State Gorillas' message board was funny. Apparently, Ralph Englestad was a bachelor-hermit who left his entire fortune to UND when he passed away. This should solve all funding problems for everything! http://www.teamkong.net/cgi-bin/ikonboard....f=1;t=1588;st=0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goon Posted November 1, 2005 Share Posted November 1, 2005 Just to quote the apparent 'party line,' there is no split and it is unanimous. They don't count those hang around the fort Indians, Indians who have fully integrated into American society (the 'lost' indians), or Indians that are not full blooded Sioux (even if you are .0000001 of anything else in the bloodline, tough crap. You don't count). Sioux on the reservations who support or don't care about the nickname are shunned into silence. The majority is cowed into cooperation. Even GK has admitted that that is what would happen if someone did speak out on it. Yes, on this issue, certain NA people are holding a number of other NA people hostage ideologically. Very well stated. I was wondering where GK was so we could get his spin on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HockeyMom Posted November 1, 2005 Share Posted November 1, 2005 Very well stated. I was wondering where GK was so we could get his spin on this. I can do that if you want me to...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goon Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 I can do that if you want me to...... I am pretty sure that he would spin it as ________that person being wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sioux-cia Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 I am pretty sure that he would spin it as ________that person being wrong. ...."hang around the fort Indian" with a "plantation negro mentality". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwing77 Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 Not really media, but today I talked to a retired member of the ND State Highway Patrol at the Fargo YMCA. I noticed on his duffle bag the emblem of the Sioux indian that is the same as that Highway Patrol patch and I asked him about it. He said he's gotten many compliments on it and how it was done to honor the Sioux Indians. That patch was adopted by the state of North Dakota, according to him in 1935. Interesting, no? The Indian on the patch was actually a NA police officer that served with the state of North Dakota in the late 1800s and early 1900s. He told me (He saw my "Thank you Ralph" tshirt that I got that has the REA emblem on it) that in his 28 years of service to the state of ND, he's never heard naught but praise for the Fighting Sioux nickname and the emblem he wears on his shoulder and duffle bag. I told him that the highway patrol is lucky he isn't affiliated with the NCAA. He laughed cynically, like a cop laughing at a guy trying to make a credible excuse as to why he ran a stoplight while being followed by a cop. He was a nice guy. He said that it is a shame that things will probably end up with the nickname probably being changed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HockeyMom Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 The Native American on the NDHP logo is Red Tomahawk. It was officially adopted by the Patrol in 1951. He became a friend of the whites and was highered as a government policemen and actually arrested Chief Sitting Bull when the North Dakota settlers believed Sitting Bull's ideologies were harmful to them. Sitting Bull ended up dying in the battle that ensued when his son discovered he had been arrested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCM Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 From The Virginia Gazette: W&M makes pitch to keep Tribe The College of William & Mary has told the NCAA that it wants to keep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YaneA Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 Click here to read W&M's letter to NCAA: http://www.wm.edu/NCAA/ Link to the self-evaluation report itself is in box at left of page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwing77 Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 The Native American on the NDHP logo is Red Tomahawk. It was officially adopted by the Patrol in 1951. He became a friend of the whites and was highered as a government policemen and actually arrested Chief Sitting Bull when the North Dakota settlers believed Sitting Bull's ideologies were harmful to them. Sitting Bull ended up dying in the battle that ensued when his son discovered he had been arrested. Bah. What do I know about dates. I probably heard him wrong. In any case, he was an interesting man to speak to. --------- As for the WIlliam and Mary nickname issue: Is anyone willing to bet that it won't be rejected? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HockeyMom Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 Bah. What do I know about dates. I probably heard him wrong. In any case, he was an interesting man to speak to. --------- Well ya got the date that the Patrol was founded right. That was pretty good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCM Posted November 3, 2005 Share Posted November 3, 2005 From the Associated Press Bradley Appeals NCAA Nickname Ruling Bradley University has appealed the NCAA's ruling banning its Braves nickname in postseason play beginning next year. A committee of 15 presidents and chancellors from NCAA Division II colleges will consider Bradley's appeal, then make a recommendation to the NCAA's 19-member Executive Committee for a final decision, NCAA spokesman Bob Williams said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new2sioux2 Posted November 3, 2005 Share Posted November 3, 2005 Not really media, but today I talked to a retired member of the ND State Highway Patrol at the Fargo YMCA. I noticed on his duffle bag the emblem of the Sioux indian that is the same as that Highway Patrol patch and I asked him about it. He said he's gotten many compliments on it and how it was done to honor the Sioux Indians. That patch was adopted by the state of North Dakota, according to him in 1935. Interesting, no? The Indian on the patch was actually a NA police officer that served with the state of North Dakota in the late 1800s and early 1900s. He told me (He saw my "Thank you Ralph" tshirt that I got that has the REA emblem on it) that in his 28 years of service to the state of ND, he's never heard naught but praise for the Fighting Sioux nickname and the emblem he wears on his shoulder and duffle bag. I told him that the highway patrol is lucky he isn't affiliated with the NCAA. He laughed cynically, like a cop laughing at a guy trying to make a credible excuse as to why he ran a stoplight while being followed by a cop. He was a nice guy. He said that it is a shame that things will probably end up with the nickname probably being changed. OK...how about the UND Fighting Highway Patrol....and keep the logo? Only kidding...just an example of how ridiculous this is getting. UND Fighting Sioux forever...'nuff said! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goon Posted November 3, 2005 Share Posted November 3, 2005 From the Associated Press Bradley Appeals NCAA Nickname Ruling If I am not mistake if UND's next appeal fails, we will be taking our case to the 15 presidents and chancellors from Division II. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sioux-cia Posted November 3, 2005 Share Posted November 3, 2005 I've not been on as regularly as usual this past week, so forgive me if I missed it. But has UND filed it's appeal yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCM Posted November 3, 2005 Share Posted November 3, 2005 I've not been on as regularly as usual this past week, so forgive me if I missed it. But has UND filed it's appeal yet? Phil Harmeson said yesterday during the roundtable discussion at the union that the second appeal would be ready for submission "very soon." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puck Posted November 3, 2005 Share Posted November 3, 2005 Phil Harmeson said yesterday during the roundtable discussion at the union that the second appeal would be ready for submission "very soon." Dr. Kupchela said today on Mac Talk, KNOX Radio, that the appeal would be filed today or tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iramurphy Posted November 3, 2005 Share Posted November 3, 2005 Dr. Kupchela said today on Mac Talk, KNOX Radio, that the appeal would be filed today or tomorrow. On a somewhat related topic I was told by someone who knows that Kuppy is respected by the State Board and Potts. They trust him and when he says something, they know he is telling the truth. Not everyone on the Board likes him however. They said the opposite is true about Chapman. He is self centered and self serving and will mistate the facts in order to get whatever he wants. He will screw and other schools including UND and doesn't see any point in helping the other schools out. The other presidents don't care for him because he is trying to dissociate the AC from the other Universities. Chapman frequently skips meetings and sends one of his subordinates instead. He remains aloof from the other presidents. At one of the meetings in Bottineau he flew at state expense to Bottineau for the late afternoon portion of a two day meeting, then rather than stay overnight in the "hick town" he flew back to Fargo for the night. He flew back to Bottineau in the AM for the rest of the meeting. Taxpayers picked up the tab. He uses John Q. Paulsen as his boy and Paulsen (who at times, as a supposed neutral board member refers to NDSU as "we" when discussing issues) does Chapman's bidding. I doubt the Fargo Forum would ever do a story on Chapman's relationship with the other Universities or his use of state funds. On a distantly related topic, there is nothing in the Englestad Arena contract that would cause the Arena to be closed or the contract changed if UND changed the Fighting Sioux name. The Arena is leased to UND for 25 years and then will be deeded to UND. It can happen sooner if the controlling board decides to give it to UND. There are no bombs set to blow it up or arragements made to tear it down if UND changes the Fighting Sioux name. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwing77 Posted November 4, 2005 Share Posted November 4, 2005 I'm going to agree with GCWaters on this one, I'm afraid. I know both Chapman and Kupchella. I admire Kup for his fight of the nickname issue instead of turning turtle (which is what I expected him to do), but comparing personalities is a bit much. I don't pretend to know what the State Board thinks of either President, I can only speak about how they act towards me. Chapman- Nice guy. Seems interested but is ambitious. It is clear he wants to put NDSU on the map any way he can. He is extremely charitable and is well connected with the Fargo community. Him and his wife donate all of the food to my church every Passover for the community seder (we're a group of MAYBE 40-60 families in a church who finished in the black by a whopping $67 last year so this is a real big deal to us) including all of the equipment needed to serve the dinner (sternos etc.). I hold Chapman in high esteem despite the fact that I don't hold the same for NDSU athletics. Kupchella- Devious. Sneaky. Brilliant business sense. He's VERY smart but he is not very personable. He's done a few things in the Grand Forks community that has not made him too popular. He's been known to make decisions that were just flat out insulting towards the student populace (including lamenting at one time to the student body president why UND fans couldn't be more like Minnesota fans). He's just as ambitious as Chapman but without the veil put over it that makes people think he cares. Kupchella and Chapman are pretty evenly matched in terms of the fundamentals of University Presidency but if I had to choose one or the other to invite to a function, I would invite Chapman over Kupchella. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new2sioux2 Posted November 4, 2005 Share Posted November 4, 2005 Just want to say good luck to the ladies tonight....women's basketball that is...playing in Florida..first team they play is Merrimack.....Warriors....hmmmmm...haven't heard about them...although their logo looks like a Trojan/Knight...maybe that's how they get away with it...I'm sure they're not "hostile and abusive"! Any way...GO FIGHTING SIOUX!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iramurphy Posted November 4, 2005 Share Posted November 4, 2005 I'm going to agree with GCWaters on this one, I'm afraid. I know both Chapman and Kupchella. I admire Kup for his fight of the nickname issue instead of turning turtle (which is what I expected him to do), but comparing personalities is a bit much. I don't pretend to know what the State Board thinks of either President, I can only speak about how they act towards me. Chapman- Nice guy. Seems interested but is ambitious. It is clear he wants to put NDSU on the map any way he can. He is extremely charitable and is well connected with the Fargo community. Him and his wife donate all of the food to my church every Passover for the community seder (we're a group of MAYBE 40-60 families in a church who finished in the black by a whopping $67 last year so this is a real big deal to us) including all of the equipment needed to serve the dinner (sternos etc.). I hold Chapman in high esteem despite the fact that I don't hold the same for NDSU athletics. Kupchella- Devious. Sneaky. Brilliant business sense. He's VERY smart but he is not very personable. He's done a few things in the Grand Forks community that has not made him too popular. He's been known to make decisions that were just flat out insulting towards the student populace (including lamenting at one time to the student body president why UND fans couldn't be more like Minnesota fans). He's just as ambitious as Chapman but without the veil put over it that makes people think he cares. Kupchella and Chapman are pretty evenly matched in terms of the fundamentals of University Presidency but if I had to choose one or the other to invite to a function, I would invite Chapman over Kupchella. I agree Kuppy isn't very personable. I agree he has not communicated well with the UND community and that includes GF. I have been to functions with both of them and wouldn't disagree with you. I am not a big fan but he has a reputation for speaking the truth. Chapman has a reputation for making statements that need to be verified. I think Chapman has out hustled Kupchella and is a better politician. He has done a pretty good job for NDSU so far but I wouldn't trust him to do much for any school other than NDSU. Clifford and Loftsgard were not like that. I have no knowlege or criticism of his community involvement but would believe what you say. I believe his meeting attendence at the presidents meetings can be verified. I think he missed another one in Bismarck this week. I would think four of the board members would be supportive of him especially Paulsen who communicates to the board he will control Chapman. I believe the facts are, it is Chapman who controls Paulsen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCM Posted November 4, 2005 Share Posted November 4, 2005 How did this thread turn into a Kupchella vs. Chapman discussion? It doesn't belong in this thread, let alone this forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted November 4, 2005 Share Posted November 4, 2005 Back to the scheduled topic in this thread: KFGO-AM News is reporting this morning that Dr. Kupchella and UND will be filing their second appeal to the NCAA today. This one (the way it was reported) will be more like Illinois' in that it will focus more on how the NCAA went about doing this. (Remember: A large portion of Illinois' appeal can be summed up by saying "you didn't and don't have the power to do this".) KFGO phrased the appeal as more "legalistic". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimdahl Posted November 4, 2005 Share Posted November 4, 2005 Appeal is analytical and legalistic UND entered the second round in what could be a series of challenges to the NCAA over the Fighting Sioux logo. President Charles Kupchella put some finishing touches on a second appeal that was expected to be submitted no later than today.The appeal is a response to the NCAA's denial on Sept. 28 of UND's first appeal. Over the past month, the NCAA has also denied similar appeals by universities such as Bradley University and Newberry College. Kupchella said that these denials offered UND a chance to "deduce some of the reasons and rationale" the NCAA uses in making its decisions. Throughout the last month, Kupchella said he has found the NCAA's reasons for excusing some universities and colleges from the list of schools with "hostile and abusive" nicknames and denying others are "inconsistent," an issue also addressed in the second appeal. "There's no logic in it at all," said Kupchella. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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