Student Hockey Seats May Go

[bigmrg74]

[HockeyMom]

This conversation is starting to remind me of someone upset about getting a speeding ticket (when they were infact speeding) and telling the officer that they pay their salary.

Which in reality comes down to about a nickel.

And, no, there is no shortage of students.....but you get my point.

[Sioux-cia]

When did this turn into a students vs season ticket holders issue? The main problem as I understand it are the swearing chants. As someone else on this thread mentioned, this also occurs in non-student sections.

And for the record, as an alum, I paid my dues. As an alum, I support the school not just by paying taxes but by yearly donations to the school and to the the Alumi Assoc. which supports students with scholarships, etc. As a season ticket holder, I deserve the same rights as current students to watch and enjoy the game.

Let's quit reacting to each other as if the other posters to this thread were Goopher fans.

[Goon]

No. The university belongs to the people of North Dakota who founded it and support it with their tax dollars so that their children can be educated within the state's borders. Without the support of voters and taxpayers, UND would cease to exist as a state institution.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

PCM is right. The university belongs to the Students, the State of ND and the Alumni. Being a student doesn't give you the keys to the place, it also doesn't give you a right to be an @$$. Besides REA is a priavtely owned building so they can put the students any where they want them to sit. The behavior of some is ruining it for everyone. Also its time for people to grow up and realize that private money in the form of financial donations from prominant Alumni runs this university plain and simple. Why do you think so many people work in the Alumni office tasked with seeking donations.

UND politics is like that on most big campuses. The Alumni are important in making decision on campus. Ask some of the Division one coachs. IF you don't cut the mustard at ND, FSU, UT the Alumni call for the coaches head and they are fired. Just ask Terry Wanless what happens when you cross the prominant alumni.

Secondly, students can be loud, say funny things and support their team without throwing F-bombs all over the place. Even though I don't like the University president and I think Charles is a Putz, he does have a valid point. It does make UND look bad when you have ESPN concerned because our students language is too profain for tv. Boy that is something to be proud of as an Alumni of UND.

I think some of this came to a head the first season the arena was opened when the students were standing and the suite owners couldn't see the game and the students were asked nicely to sit down and the students told them to go F___ themselves. No offense some of these people spent 10,000's (I think its about 40,000.00) of dollars to sit in their suites so I think they are entitled to be able to see the game. And really honestly, who do you think is going to win in that situation?

The bottom line is students need to clean it up or face the consequences.

Edited May 1, 2005 by Goon

[Fedorov]

The bottom line is students need to clean it up or face the consequences.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Why shouldn't the general public have to change their behavior or face the consequences? Show support for your team by cheering, or watch from home. Make sure your tickets are used for the games, or you won't be getting a chance to renew next year. If students aren't on the endangered list, I don't think people wanting to get season tickets are either.

[PCM]

And, no, there is no shortage of students.....but you get my point.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I do get your point. But my point is that out of the total number of students who attend UND, very few decide to attend the university based on whether they get to stand or swear at hockey games. And of the students who attend the games, how many are true hockey fans, how many are there just for something to do and how many are there just to be seen?

We're talking about an issue that, in the grand scheme of things, doesn't affect all that many students. Let's not portray it as being a larger problem than it really is. That being said, I suspect that that UND wants to avoid creating the perception that it ignores student input on such issues. If that perception becomes too common, then it could impact the number of students who attend the university.

Do students deserve a say in where they sit at hockey games? Of course. Are students a vital part of the atmosphere at hockey games. Absolutley. I've never said otherwise. I want them there. I'm sure the vast majority of Sioux fans want the students at the games. I can't recall a single post on this board in which someone said the there should be fewer or no students at the games. And, most importantly, the team needs the students at the games.

But just because the students are an important part of the game and atmosphere, it doesn't absolve them of the responsibility to act in a socially responsible manner at a public event, just as buying season tickets doesn't give people the right to swear at the top of their lungs or prevent someone near them from cheering too loud.

That's why it concerns me when student government offers proposals that revolve around giving students more freedom to stand and swear. I don't see such proposals as being helpful, useful or realistic. UND cannot and should not tolerate the organized profane cheering. And I see no realistic way that students can be allowed to stand for the entire game in any lower bowl seating.

It would be great if we could get away from having to constantly revisit the standing and swearing issues every season which, at this point, should be non-issues. There are bigger fish to fry.

[Goon]

Why shouldn't the general public have to change their behavior or face the consequences? Show support for your team by cheering, or watch from home. Make sure your tickets are used for the games, or you won't be getting a chance to renew next year. If students aren't on the endangered list, I don't think people wanting to get season tickets are either.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

We are. We cheer and yell. There are people that glare at us because we stand up and complain about the refs. The point is that they paid more for their ticket than you did. So I don't think we can just throw them out of the arena. You can be loud without using F-Bombs. I would actually like the Arena to allow those noise makers they had during the WJC.

I wonder if someone can tell us why they were allowed during the WJC and not during WCHA hockey.

[PCM]

Why shouldn't the general public have to change their behavior or face the consequences?

The rules against standing and swearing should be enforced equally throughout the arena. Unfortunately, because there's a group of students who insists that they have the right to stand and swear and student government makes a habit of supporting their efforts, the student sections tend to attract the most attention.

Show support for your team by cheering, or watch from home.

Everyone who goes to the games should enthusiastically support the Sioux. However, you cannot mandate enthusiasm or noise levels. Edited May 1, 2005 by PCM

[PCM]

Let me preface this post with the fact that I bow to your knowledge of the sport of hockey and the University of North Dakota.  I in no way mean this as an insult.

I don't pretend to be an expert on everything UND- or hockey related. I'm far from it. There are UND alumni on this board who have been Sioux hockey fans much longer than I who possess more in-depth knowledge than I do. There are people on this board who spend far more time than I do pursuing rumors and leads about UND and Sioux athletics.

I try to avoid making comments about topics on which I have no knowledge. I try to educate myself so that I can state informed opinions. When I state an opinion, I try to rely on facts to back it up. I'm the first to admit that my facts aren't always correct. When I make a mistake, I admit it.

I notice that you often make posts similar to this.  I also understand that others do.  However, for a well respected, and well educated, "sudo"-reporter I don't think comments like these are constructive.

My response to 206Jockey was partly based on his latest post on this thread, partly on a private message he sent me and partly on what he's posted on this board in the past. I only wish that 206Jockey would do me the favor of reading my posts on this issue and understanding my position before assuming that he/she knows what I think and slapping labels on me.

You could be right. Maybe I do make too many posts that ridicule people. I like to think that I save such posts for those who truly deserve it. I'll try to be more selective.

Something like this, however, is taken in slightly poor taste, and I'm not sure 206Jockey appreciates you belittling him.

Well, I guess I didn't appreciate 206Jockey's private message to me, either, but that didn't stop him/her from sending it.

[SiouxTupa]

Thank you for acknowledging that post even though it was just one person's opinion. The information you post is usually very good and interesting. However, sometimes comments (like your fairly sarcastic rebuttle to 206Jockey) could be misconstrued as an attempt at discrediting the other person and their comments. I realize it is not intentional, and I have been in that situation where another person tries to pass marginal info as fact so I understand.

In my opinion, when you have a topic that so many people are passionate about, and a person is sarcastic in their responses it is deconstructive and fuels a lot of fires (admittedly mine). I don't know who 206Jockey is, and I definately didn't know about the PM's you received. I tried to establish that I took it in poor taste, and truthfully I have no idea how 206Jockey reacted. Had I known it was fairly personal, I would have stayed out. Actually the funny thing is, although the post in question was pretty cynical in itself...had it not featured the eye-rolling smiley, I might have just brushed it off like the others. Haha, sorry.

I guess it's the old "high road" for topics like this for me. This situation hits home pretty hard, but I try to stay away from swearing/standing discussions. They should be dead by now, the real issue is establishing a CONSISTENT system for didstributing student tickets, whatever it may be. After that I really like the idea of a "workshop" or "Sioux Sports Orientation" for the new season ticket holders. I agree though, aside from a few workable ideas I've seen on this board, the discussion gets really old.

[PCM]

However, some comments I've seen could be misconstrued as an attempt at discrediting the other person and their comments.

[HockeyMom]

Let's settle this on the ice.

*puts on hockey gear and waits at center ice for faceoff*

[Diggler]

Old farts would never agree to that. The students would beat the crap out of the foogies.

[HockeyMom]

Old farts would never agree to that.  The students would beat the crap out of the foogies.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think I fall into the fogie catagory.

AND I hate losing.

[iramurphy]

[Fedorov]

I wonder if someone can tell us why they were allowed during the WJC and not during WCHA hockey.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I know one guy that sits on the end where the students could possibly go. He was so excited to be able to bring an air horn to the WJC. I assume the governing body for the WJC allows noise makers, and the NCAA does not.

[Fedorov]

We are. We cheer and yell.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Welcome to my world. How does it feel to be stereotyped into being said that you don't cheer? Yet all students stand and swear. It would be nice if people would quit saying that the students need to do this or that. A small minority of the students are causing the problems that the general public are complaining about.

[PCM]

I am not sure Kupchella's public criticism is the best way to handle this.

That's not really what he did. The Dakota Student got hold of a letter that Kupchella wrote to an alum who complained about student behavior at the hockey games and published it. This latest proposal on student seating appears to have gone from student government directly to the media.

I would work with the students rather than the press and I would ask the students to come up with the solution.  Given time they will.  They need to be a big part of UND athletics.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This issue is like the weather. Everyone complains about it, but nobody does anything about it. There have been all sorts of discussions, proposals and calls for ideas. The trouble is, very little ever seems to change.

[iramurphy]

Welcome to my world. How does it feel to be stereotyped into being said that you don't cheer? Yet all students stand and swear. It would be nice if people would quit saying that the students need to do this or that. A small minority of the students are causing the problems that the general public are complaining about.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't think the "general public" is complaining. I think it is similar to a "small minority" of students causing problems. When all is said and done more is said than done!!

I believe Kupchella is referring to the letters or comments he may occasionaly receive but that doesn't mean it is anywhere near the majority. Most fans want to see the game and don't wish to stand. I still haven't had anyone help me understand why the students want to stand the whole game. Standing to yell at the refs or to react to play on the ice I would expect.

I believe the new AD, whomever that will be, will work out where the students sit. I know Bollinger understands the importance of students at athletic events. I believe the other candidates do as well.

Is the language in the student section a big deal? What is Kuppy referring to? Is there no forum by which thee students can express their opinions on how to solve these issues?

[Cratter]

Is the problem that Kupchella doesn't want students to Stand OR doesn't want students to Swear at hockey games?

Part of the problem is there is no defined problem, Kupchella simply states he wants fan behavior to improve. One thinks to himself, ummm ok.

[iramurphy]

Is the problem that Kupchella doesn't want students to Stand OR doesn't want students to Swear at hockey games?

Part of the problem is there is no defined problem, Kupchella simply states he wants fan behavior to improve.  One thinks to himself, ummm ok. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree but is there anyway for students to address this? An earlier poster commented that it is the students University. More accurately is that the professors and administrators work for the students and taxpayers. There should be some way to open communication with the president. In my opinion it would be good for him to get out into the dorms, fraternities and sororities and wherever on campus he can meet with students. Tom Clifford did it and it was very effective. He needs to listen to the students. He could take his concerns to them and then consider stting up a more formal forum if he still thinks he has a problem.

[PCM]

Note that Kupchella and UND are mentioned in this February 2004 USA Today article on fan misbehavior.

[iramurphy]

Note that Kupchella and UND are mentioned in this February 2004 USA Today article on fan misbehavior.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Great publicity for the school. I don't think UND fan behavior is anything close to what they were taking about at Maryland and the Reddick kid. Maybe I am missing something but I didn't hear anything way out of the ordinary at Sioux games. Maybe it gets more entertaining near the penalty box. I still think Kuppy needs to get closer to the students and hear from them.

[PCM]

Great publicity for the school. 

Your idea of "great publicity" and mine are two different things.

I don't think UND fan behavior is anything close to what they were taking about at Maryland and the Reddick kid. 

Sorry, but I don't think the "we're not as bad as them" excuse gets us off the hook.

Maybe I am missing something but I didn't hear anything way out of the ordinary at Sioux games.

I think you are missing something because I hear F-bombs dropped in unison from the student section quite often.

I still think Kuppy needs to get closer to the students and hear from them.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

He is and he has.

[Fedorov]

If I had a job and lived in the area, I would request to get season tickets in or near the student section, or by PCM. I have a feeling I wouldn't get either.