DI vs. DII

[bincitysioux]

I do, look at NDSU's #'s from this year.

I don't get what you mean. ndsu only drew 1100 against Dakota Weslyan, and they couldn't get any DI's into the BSA other than SDSU. I'm sure more seats would have been filled if someone like UWGB were there. I'm not talking 5,000, but probably like 2,000-2,500. They probably would have drawn close to that against Mankato or Duluth if they were still in the NCC.

[ESPNInsider]

Never mind I read the other post wrong. I was going to say I think there would be a drop-off after getting a good team in there then going to a crappy team. My bad.

[Cratter]

I think he is talking about average attendance. Of course they would draw big crowds against those teams, but would figures would drop dramatically against weaker/less known competition.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Correct. Add about the same (average) attendance now, but then every few years get say 7-10,000 (we won't say 13,000 cause that was a commodity but who knows) for a game or two and you might be able to average 4-6,000. I said "in a few years" because it'd be 8-10 years down the road after the transition period was over, so people wouldn't compare this year and the next couple years of NDSU's average attendance/schedule. I can't imagine NDSU/UND's basketball attendance after those years (8-10) being any lower than it is now.

[jack100]

All except a handful of DIIs (and a couple of transitionals shown as DIIs).

http://www2.ncaa.org/media_and_events/asso...de/4203n11.html

PS - Did SDSU say "thank you" to NDSU for giving them that one big gate to help their average?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The NDSU game wasn't even the largest gate last year - their were actually over 1000 more in attendance for the Augustana football game. Maybe SDSU should send Augie a thank you. Quick question - which school 4-5 years ago cast the deciding ballot for the NCC as a whole not to go D1 and then last fall come out and say they might be interested in D1. UND's lack of direction is one of the major reasons the NCC is now in shambles.

[star2city]

Quick question - which school 4-5 years ago cast the deciding ballot for the NCC as a whole not to go D1 and then last fall come out and say they might be interested in D1. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Even if UND had voted with the other 'yes' (UNC, NDSU, SDSU, USD) to make it 5-4 yes, it is a more than a stretch to believe that Augie, UNO, SCSU, and MSU-M would have gone along for the DI ride (and thirteen years of probation that would have resulted with the new DI conference). UND's vote kept the conference alive.

UND's lack of direction is one of the major reasons the NCC is now in shambles.

Which conference is healthier, ours .... or .. "yours" ?

[nodakvindy]

The NDSU game wasn't even the largest gate last year - their were actually over 1000 more in attendance for the Augustana football game.

[bisonguy]

........  Omaha is at the bare minimum for sports offered, and would have to add to go to DI............... 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

UNO offers fourteen sports, the minimum required for DI membership. To be able to field a DI-A football team, a minimum of sixteen sports must be sponsored.

[jack100]

Even if UND had voted with the other 'yes' (UNC, NDSU, SDSU, USD) to make it 5-4 yes, it is a more than a stretch to believe that Augie, UNO, SCSU, and MSU-M would have gone along for the DI ride (and thirteen years of probation that would have resulted with the new DI conference). UND's vote kept the conference alive.

Which conference is healthier, ours .... or .. "yours" ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sure UNO might have decided to go south and join another D2 conference but UNO would not want to be left behind and their football coach is in favor of 1aa football. I also think that St. Cloud and Mankato would have at least considered the move - where else would they go if they did not follow the departing NCC members? NSIC already has too many members and both schools have d1 hockey. As far as the 13 year rule - that is an obstacle - but no rule is written in stone. Several of UNC's, NDSU's and SDSU's teams (volleyball, wrestling, and ?)will be eligible for the national championships before the mandatory waiting period. An exception to this rule was made. If the conference was competitive and the NCCA could tell that it was in it for the long haul - I have to believe an exception would have been granted to the 13 year rule. Also with many schools moving up to D1 - the NCAA would have at least look at adding another automotic qualifer in the case of a new conference. How many years has it been since a new D1 conference? More than 20?

[PCM]

USD lacks the resources and would be a DI bottom feeder.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'd like to know what's happened since the vote that would lead anyone to seriously believe that USD was even capable of going moving to DI-AA, no matter how much they might have wanted to at the time.

[star2city]

Several of UNC's, NDSU's and SDSU's teams (volleyball, wrestling, and ?)will be eligible for the national championships before the mandatory waiting period.  An exception to this rule was made. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It wasn't an exception, it was a clarification. If those schools had so chosen, they could have moved volleyball and wrestling to DI years ago. Now instead of waiting 5 years for postseason eligibility in those sports, it's only 3.

If the conference was competitive and the NCCA could tell that it was in it for the long haul - I have to believe an exception would have been granted to the 13 year rule.  Also with many schools moving up to D1 - the NCAA would have at least look at adding another automotic qualifer in the case of a new conference. 

The reason joining an extablished conference is so important, is that men's BBall is eligible at 5 years, rather than 13 years if the new DI school is an independent or if it joins a new DI conference. The power conferences got the reclassification rules rewritten so as to practically eliminate the addition of more autobids from conferences with DI newbies. The NCAA would never have been lenient on the NCC (the big schools would not have allowed it as they would have lost big $'s).

How many years has it been since a new D1 conference?  More than 20?

The last new DI conference was the Mountain West conference (2001 or 2 for an autobid - they had to wait for 2-3 years) after the WAC split in two. The Big South conference got an autobid in the mid-nineties (I think). If the Big East splits in three years (which many consider likely), both halves would get an autobid.

The proposed conference of NDSU, SDSU, IPFW, UTPA, TxCC, UVSC and whoever else, would get an autobid in 2017 (or so).

[RD17]

Geography, Geography, Geography. I know I have harped on it over and over-- but if UND, NDSU, SDSU, etc. were 700 miles south, east, or west, they all would have been Division I years ago. The obvious problem is that being isolated in this area of the country with no conference possibilities is the limiting factor. If UND had decided to also be in support of D-I and made the move with NDSU and SDSU, we'd have three independent schools up here desperately searching for a home instead of just two.

The Carr folks that came in and did the studies for NDSU and SDSU didn't include the caveat that a conference must be found before a move is made just for kicks. The standard line coming out of both schools that "no D-I conference would consider us before we officially declared for D-I" is garbage. Kennesaw State and North Florida both declared they were moving to Division I with conference memberships in hand. You may think you have a D-I school with D-I quality athletic programs, but if there is no one in the neighborhood to play, it will not work. Period!

And Jack, there was just an article in the St. Cloud newspaper a few days ago. SCSU can only afford to fund 24 scholarships for football as it is! They also only drew 2300 fans for a playoff game against a top conference rival. How in the world would SCSU ever afford a move to Division I? Mankato is probably a bit better off, but not by much. Both would probably prefer to be the "big boys" in a souped up NSIC or all Minnesota D2 conference than ever consider D-I.

[UND Fan]

Geography, Geography, Geography.  I know I have harped on it over and over-- but if UND, NDSU, SDSU, etc. were 700 miles south, east, or west, they all would have been Division I years ago. The obvious problem is that being isolated in this area of the country with no conference possibilities is the limiting factor. If UND had decided to also be in support of D-I and made the move with NDSU and SDSU, we'd have three independent schools up here desperately searching for a home instead of just two.

The Carr folks that came in and did the studies for NDSU and SDSU didn't include the caveat that a conference must be found before a move is made just for kicks. The standard line coming out of both schools that "no D-I conference would consider us before we officially declared for D-I" is garbage. Kennesaw State and North Florida both declared they were moving to Division I with conference memberships in hand. You may think you have a D-I school with D-I quality athletic programs, but if there is no one in the neighborhood to play, it will not work. Period!

And Jack, there was just an article in the St. Cloud newspaper a few days ago. SCSU can only afford to fund 24 scholarships for football as it is! They also only drew 2300 fans for a playoff game against a top conference rival. How in the world would SCSU ever afford a move to Division I? Mankato is probably a bit better off, but not by much. Both would probably prefer to be the "big boys" in a souped up NSIC or all Minnesota D2 conference than ever consider D-I.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

RD-17 - I couldn't have said it better!

[huskies679]

And Jack, there was just an article in the St. Cloud newspaper a few days ago. SCSU can only afford to fund 24 scholarships for football as it is! They also only drew 2300 fans for a playoff game against a top conference rival. How in the world would SCSU ever afford a move to Division I? Mankato is probably a bit better off, but not by much. Both would probably prefer to be the "big boys" in a souped up NSIC or all Minnesota D2 conference than ever consider D-I.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Unofrtunately the SCSU admin does not have sports on the radar because it is not PC to focus on sports. The university actually had a surplus of over 1mil and I think a portion of that should go to football scholarships. We will be at 28 scholarships this year and more for the next year. I can't believe we can have success against fully funded teams that have more tradition than SCSU, but lately we have. Every other sport is fully funded and I don't know why we don't fully fund football. Thank God we have great corporate donors but the athletic department does not ask for funds from private parties as much as they should. They should take a page out of UND's book when it comes to that. As far as fan support... it is what it is. This is a tough town for football with SJU and the areas favorite team being the U of M.

A move to DIAA for msu or SCSU is an imposibility.

[dakotadan]

Geography, Geography, Geography.  I know I have harped on it over and over-- but if UND, NDSU, SDSU, etc. were 700 miles south, east, or west, they all would have been Division I years ago. The obvious problem is that being isolated in this area of the country with no conference possibilities is the limiting factor. If UND had decided to also be in support of D-I and made the move with NDSU and SDSU, we'd have three independent schools up here desperately searching for a home instead of just two.

The Carr folks that came in and did the studies for NDSU and SDSU didn't include the caveat that a conference must be found before a move is made just for kicks. The standard line coming out of both schools that "no D-I conference would consider us before we officially declared for D-I" is garbage. Kennesaw State and North Florida both declared they were moving to Division I with conference memberships in hand. You may think you have a D-I school with D-I quality athletic programs, but if there is no one in the neighborhood to play, it will not work. Period!

Like you pointed out geography plays a huge role. Kennesaw State and North Florida have DI conferences all around them and UND and NDSU obviously don't. For them to move up to DI with a conference in hand was not that big of a deal. For UND that really isn't an option. Basically our only chance for that would be if the 'SUs do get this new conference going with the other independants and invite UND to join. If NDSU and SDSU were to be invited to the BSC they may help us also get in, but with all of the love between UND and NDSU, I don't see the Bison bending over backwards to help us move to DI.

[nodakvindy]

[bisonguy]

I stand corrected.

Thanks for that handy link. That's a nice condensed version of the divsion requirements as opposed to looking them up in the division manuals.

[nodakvindy]

I stand corrected.

Thanks for that handy link. That's a nice condensed version of the divsion requirements as opposed to looking them up in the division manuals.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not a problem, should have pointed out that clarification in my initial post.

[RD17]

Just to clarify... starting August 1st Division II schools will need to sponsor 10 sports instead of the eight listed in that guide.

[RD17]

[star2city]

I honestly believe that the only way D-I is going to work is for the Big Sky to come calling. And let me put it this way... from what I have been told, if BSC expansion into the Dakotas is going to happen, it is going to include UND. I believe Gene Taylor is going to have the new UND athletic director on speed dial!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Would Sac State and Portland State have to leave the conference before it happened (a ten-team BSC), or would it be two 6-team divisions?

[greenandgold01]

25% of SCSU students are from the Twin Cities.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think that would depend on how you define the Twin Cities.

According to the US Census Bureau, the Saint Cloud MSA is combined with the Minneapolis MSA to form a CMSA. Essentially this means it's one great big metro area like Washington/Baltimore.

At the minimum, you have to include: Anoka, Washington, Dakota, Scott, Carver, Hennipen, and Ramsey counties for the Twin Cities.

I would think at least 50% of Saint Clouds undergrads come from those counties.

[greenandgold01]

Would Sac State and Portland State have to leave the conference before it happened (a ten-team BSC), or would it be two 6-team divisions?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

From what I've heard about Sac State, they may be going to the WAC in the next 3 years (depending if they can get their new stadium and arena built).

Portland State isn't going anywhere, however.

[RD17]

Would Sac State and Portland State have to leave the conference before it happened (a ten-team BSC), or would it be two 6-team divisions?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

From what I have heard, two six team divisions.

[dakotadan]

Another school looking at DI. I wasn't sure where to stick this so I am just throwing out there for people to check out.

West Georgia looks at DI

"We must do the due diligence necessary to make this a reality and to avoid pitfalls experienced by institutions moving to Division I precipitously," school president Beheruz N. Sethna said Friday...

..."It is important for everyone to realize that this is a journey that is going to take several years," Sethna said. "It is not something that can be done overnight and to do it one day before we are ready, without a solid business plan for success, would be irresponsible and potentially dangerous."

I thought that last quote was a pretty good one.

[bigmrg74]

Another school looking at DI. I wasn't sure where to stick this so I am just throwing out there for people to check out.

West Georgia looks at DI

I thought that last quote was a pretty good one.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

West Georgia? They stink. What have they done lately in the GSC to make them think they could be a successfull D1-AA??