Screw this crap

[Goon]

You know, 01grad probably had a few too many barley-pops.  He's never posted like this before.  Why don't we let it lie?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Drunk, fat and stupid is no way to go through life son.

And drunk is not a good excuse for bad behaviors. The Gopher fans are perfect examples of this, you should have heard the drunk Gopher rubes whinning about the officating last night during the game. I almost fell out of my chair. It should be a fun game this afternoon. All I want for today is a DU loss. What a bunch of hacks. However, beating the Goofers would be nice. Anyone going to Wyld Times today?

[redwing77]

You're missing the point. Paukovich's hit on Bina should have been a major penalty. If that hit wasn't worthy of a 5-minute major, what is? What's the point of having major penalties in the game if they're not called when they happen?

Paukovich should have been gone from the game, forcing the Pioneers to juggle their lines just at the Sioux did when Bina was knocked out. The Sioux should have had three minutes of major penalty power play time. Maybe it would have been the difference in the game and maybe it wouldn't. But there's simply no excuse for UND not coming out of the situation with a power play.

The WCHA's after-the-fact suspension of Paukovich only proves that Adam blew the call on the ice. If you read about how horrid Adam was in officiating the UW-UAA series and how he failed to call a major penalty in one of those games (later asssessed by the WCHA -- again -- after the fact), perhaps you'd understand that Adam should have been the last person the league should want officiating a nationally televised tournament.

But year after year, season after season, the WCHA continues to operate as if nothing's wrong with its officiating. Even when the NCAA ordered college hockey to clean up its act this season, the WCHA temporarily went along and then got back to business as usual, ignoring the NCAA directive.

And what was one of the primary reasons that NCAA demanded changes in college hockey officiating? It was because of the way Denver played in winning its national championship. Yes, assessing a two-minute minor to Paukovich for flagrant boarding certainly tells me that the WCHA is into making serious changes in the way it officiates games. 

A player like Robbie Bina shouldn't have to get his neck broken before the WCHA sees the light.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Exactly! Diggler is right as well. Adam didn't affect the outcome. The winning goal in OT was scored 5 on 5.

The players were NOT being protected and the ref didn't care! It's the job of the ref to set the tone. He set the tone alright, I'm just surprised Paukovich didn't try to take out Stafford, Zajac, or perhaps our goaltender. He could have done so easily and without much more than a minor assessed to him.

I am wondering something and perhaps PCM can clarify this: Is there any action, other than the usually ignored official complaint that UND can do towards the league regarding this incident? I would say usually ignored because of all the times Blais filed complaints against the league and its officials and all the wonderful (meaning complete lack thereof) responses to them.

I've NEVER had more supporters to my sig, I think

[jloos]

I still maintain the majority of Gopher fans are good fans. Of course most of the games I went to in Minny were before they won the back to back championships so they didn't have the bandwagon fans on board. I cheer for the WCHA in general, I don't hate the gophers, I guess that makes me an idiot.

I agree with most about the reffing - it had nothing to do with the outcome of the game as far as the score goes - but they let too much go and lost control of the game. Someone was bound to get hurt, unfortunately it was a severe (or potentionally severe) injury. Even if Bina recovers physically he may not mentally. I hit like that can change the way you play the game (Tyler Palmiscino?). That hit was the most obvious intent to injure penalty I've ever seen in college hockey. The fact the call was completely blown is a disgrace. The outcome of the game was not affected by the reffing, just the players' safety.

[Watchout for Flying Pucks]

The officiating wasn't that bad.  It wasn't very inconsistent but I am not going to resort to blaming the reffing on the outcomes of these games.  The Sioux played tough and will probably have a tough time tomorrow after losing Brady and Bina because the team is tired.  I remembered seeing Zajac saying a naughty word as Brady left the ice, which showed me that they know it will be tough here on out.  Sure it hurts, but they need to get through it.  It wasn't due to poor refereeing that he and Bina got hurt.  Because #12 on Denver took a cheap shot doesn't mean it was poor reffing, though he could have given the guy 5:00, the damage was already done.  Even if you call a tight game, players will still do stupid stuff.  This is always what they talk about with basketball conference tourneys is players getting hurt when it really isn't that important.  I talked to the medical staff while I was waiting to ride the zamboni and they said they thought Bina wasn't that bad off and would probably be okay though the hit looked cheap and bad. 

We had a very valiant effort and played the top team in the country very tough.  I will not make excuses for our loss as we played well and the win could have gone either way.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It sounds like you are a Gopher fan at heart, but on the outside you are a Sioux wannabe

[Hockey Fan]

I had to register in order to respond to Grad 01. Look here, you actually talked to someone on the medical staff that was tending to Bina, and you reassure us that this trainer said Bina was going to be ok. You had something of an inside scoop and you shared that with us, and that's fine. But by not addressing the possibility of whether it was a career ending injury you show that you do not care about his welfare. Secondly, the fact that you were at the game and so didn't have access to replay and maybe even didn't see the hit is no excuse. You need to be directing vitriolic hyperbole toward the officiating otherwise you are not in your right mind. That's what we do on this board. Third, if you have respect-and not an intense hatred for- rival hockey programs then this indicates that you are not a real Sioux fan and and you do not appreciate, or have knowledge of, the game of hockey. I have to agree with denbo that you are an "idiot." I don't have any other posts on this board and so maybe you won't take me seriously or maybe you'll flame me. All I ask is that you show some civility and respect even if my ideas seem outrageous to you.

[Fedorov]

I don't think you can say Adam did or did not affect the outcome. He did affect three minutes of power play for the Sioux. That could have led to one or more power play goals for the Sioux, and it could have led to one or more short handed goals for the sioux. I'm not sure you can really say he didn't affect the outcome then because he did change the middle part incorrectly.

[sprig]

I don't think you can say Adam did or did not affect the outcome.  He did affect three minutes of power play for the Sioux.  That could have led to one or more power play goals for the Sioux, and it could have led to one or more short handed goals for the sioux.  I'm not sure you can really say he didn't affect the outcome then because he did change the middle part incorrectly.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Also, an earlier similar hit from behind by May was a "Minor". Same hit, same call, but a better result in that no injury occurred. Adam had the chance right there to let the teams know hitting from behind is absolutely unacceptable, and did not. The second one results in a possible career ending injuiry for Bina.

[Watchout for Flying Pucks]

01 Grad is a true Gopher fan. He said it himself!

[PCM]

I don't think you can say Adam did or did not affect the outcome.  He did affect three minutes of power play for the Sioux.  That could have led to one or more power play goals for the Sioux, and it could have led to one or more short handed goals for the sioux.  I'm not sure you can really say he didn't affect the outcome then because he did change the middle part incorrectly.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Right. The outcome was affected because it forced the Sioux to do even more juggling of their lines for the entire game with an already depleted roster.

For the Pioneers, it resulted in a temporary two-minute inconvenience of playing 4-on-4 without the services of Mr. Paukovich. Denver didn't even have to kill a penalty. The Pioneers came out of it smelling like a rose when, in fact, they should have been severely penalized.

Denver might well have won the game anyway. If Adam had made the correct call, it might have affected the outcome in UND's favor. That would have been justice.

As it stands, DU wasn't punished for its player's flagrant and dangerous penalty during the game. The WCHA's after-the-fact suspension of Paukovich is half a punishment and a travesty.

[PCM]

Todd Milewski's and Tim Brule's recap on USCHO of the UND-DU game mentions another way that Don Adam's officiating affected the game's outcome. Read "Try, Try Again" under the sidebar on the right. In OT, Gauthier should have been in the box for holding and/or interfering with Schneider. Instead, he was given the opportunity for a clean shot on Lamoureux and was then on the ice to score the game winning goal.

[Fedorov]

Here is an idea for the thread title, screw this no fighting crap. There is a place for fighting, and it was in yesterday's game. It is obvious that the refs are not going to police the game, so teams need to do it themselves. Everyone knows it has gotten out of hand with the small players using their sticks against bigger players. We now have cheap shots that are allowed too. When a ref sees a check from behind into the boards and calls it interference, he is telling everyone that the check would have been fine if the player had the puck. Players need to step up and inform them that it wasn't a good check, no matter what the incompetent ref thought.

[tp033]

The TWO THINGS that troubled me the most from Friday's Games:

1) without commenting on the Sioux vs. Denver game I cringed every time a player came up from behind and hit somebody in the CC vs MN game. There was at least one or two instances when a player went down right next to the boards. Now I know that not everything should be a penalty much less a 5 min. and I was still angry (and nervous) from the afternoon game but if I'm the WCHA I tell Shepherd to call the evening game as tight as possible. If anybody comes even close to thinking about a check from behind they are in the box for 5 min. Instead 90% of the penalties called in that game where holding the stick or obstruction interference that occured well behind the play. Good call by Shepherd and the rest of the WCHA to send a message that a player's trip to the hospital earlier in the day meant nothing on how they chose to officiate the game.

WE PRAY FOR A FULL RECOVERY ROBBIE. GET WELL SOON!

2)

[Godsmack]

My suggestion in addition to all of the heart-felt posts is for each of us to put our thoughts and feelings in writing and write to not only the WCHA administration, but also the NCAA. I feel that the league's decision to suspend Paukovitch was a token attempt to save face and a clear admission that they blew it during the game. I intend to put my thoughts in writing after I have calmed down so that I may write a clear, non-emotional plea to that the league and it's officials clean up their act.

Dan M.

[shep]

Currently 81% of the people that have voted believes he needs to be fired. The poll is towards the bottom of this page if you have not voted yet.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

81% say he needs to be fired, eh.

No offense, but that would be like asking "Do you think the Gophers suck?" and you'd get the same results.

The guy blew the call. No doubt about it. I screamed at the TV when I saw it. It was a bad missed call. However, I'm not sure he sucks so bad that he should never ref again.

[Sioux_Hab-it]

81% say he needs to be fired, eh.

No offense, but that would be like asking "Do you think the Gophers suck?" and you'd get the same results.

The guy blew the call. No doubt about it. I screamed at the TV when I saw it. It was a bad missed call. However, I'm not sure he sucks so bad that he should never ref again.

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Perchance is the Shep short for Sheperd. He made the same blatant mistake two weekends in a row and now a kids hockey career is likely over. Would you want him reffing a game either you or your son were playing in. Get real.

[shep]

Perchance is the Shep short for Sheperd. He made the same blatant mistake two weekends in a row and now a kids hockey career is likely over. Would you want him reffing a game either you or your son were playing in. Get real.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You're essentially saying the only way to prevent these types of plays in college hockey is to rid the game of this ref.

Is that your theory for if so, the logical conclusion then is that if he's not a ref, this will not happen again.

It happened. It's terrible that it did, but whether this ref is on the ice or not, it COULD happen again next week. Players know the rules, but sometimes in the frenzy of the game, they fail to exercise good judgment and caution.

Getting rid of a ref doesn't change that.

Oh and the Shep is for the name of the best dog ever.

[Riverman]

Getting rid of a ref doesn't change that.

Let me see how to put this...

In the real world where all the rest of us live... If YOU do not do your job you can be replaced.

How many times do you let Adam make stupid mistakes that CAN and WILL end a young man's hockey career?

As for G-Sheep-herder the head of officials for the WCHA. He retired from his job and now is under FULL time employ for the WCHA and he still sucks.

You are as good as your leadership and mgt. The WCHA figure heads have not shown me anything to say they are doing all they can for the schools in the WCHA.

end rant

[CoteauRinkRat]

It happened. It's terrible that it did, but whether this ref is on the ice or not, it COULD happen again next week.  Players know the rules, but sometimes in the frenzy of the game, they fail to exercise good judgment and caution.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, but the league should step in and give more than a one game suspension and send the message to the players that this kind of stuff will not be tolerated.

Not sure how you can argue that the suspension is weak when there is a kid laying in the hospital

[shep]

[PCM]

Yes, but the league should step in and give more than a one game suspension and send the message to the players that this kind of stuff will not be tolerated. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My solution would be to make boarding an automatic 5-minute major with a game disqualification, just as spearing, butt-ending and fighting are. With those penalties, the referee has no discretion as to whether it's a two-minute minor or a 5-minute major.

I think it's absolutely ludicrous that players are given escalating game DQs for fighting while boarding, which is far more dangerous, is treated as a minor penalty with the discretion to call it as a major. Players rarely get seriously hurt in fights, but boarding is a potentially career-ending, life-threatening offense.

The reason that you don't see much spearing, butt-ending and fighting is because the cost of engaging in them is severe. Boarding should be no different.

[Fedorov]

Fighting should be without the DQ

[redwing77]

Though shep has a valid point, I think the message needs to be sent. Replacing Adam would improve the quality of the officiating in the WCHA, but it won't prevent a cheap hit like that from happening again.

Leadership sets tone, folks. We were questioning our leadership early in the year. Well, it's WCHA leadership that is setting the tone. If they entrust officials with rewards such as this to watch them allow the jeopardization of the players to be higher than the normal wear and tear that a well officiated game would entail, then the tone is set and I fear for all of the small players in the league.

Yes, Adam should be fired, but not because of just this game. It's his track record. Time and time again he compromised the safety of the game. This has to stop and it has to end NOW.

Fire Greg Shepherd, Don Adam, and Todd Anderson. Then hire a retired NHL head ref to be the supervisor of officials (maybe lure Kerry Frasier into retirement to take the helm?) and hire some new blood into the ranks. Notice I didn't call for Derek Shepherd's firing. I think he should be put on probation and watched for the entire next season.

[Fedorov]

(maybe lure Kerry Frasier into retirement to take the helm?)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The WCHA can't afford his hair product.

[redwing77]

The WCHA can't afford his hair product.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Raise membership dues. Hell, I'm sure some alumni of UND alone would foot the bill just to see an improvement in officiating right now.

[Godsmack]

The WCHA can't afford his hair product.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Perhaps Frazier and Donny L. go to the same beautician?