Coaching vs. Talent debate

[01grad]

Brady Murray North Dakota SO F 16 0.81 6- 7-13 (This year)

Brady Murray North Dakota FR F 37 1.24 19-27-46 (Last year)

The reason we are not doing well isn't because we changed coaches or that we aren't getting the bounces. I believe we just lack offensive leadership and playmakers who make those around them better. Look at Murray's numbers above. Granted he was hurt and may be playing a little tentatively, but he just isn't putting up the numbers like he was when paired with Parise or Bochenski. Our goaltending is phenomonal and defense is doing well, we just need better offensive leaders and playmakers paired up with Stafford. From what I have seen he is it this year. Look at how well he did when he had guys setting him up. He doesn't have any developed talent right now to pair up with. These are things that would be tough for Hakstol to teach or practice because it is just simple puck sense and talent. We have some pretty good players right now, but they are just lacking something that I don't think can be taught. Murray looked liked a stud last year and now this year when he has been playing he hasn't had that edge. I think we are still feeling the effects of losing great players last year and it isn't solely the coaches fault. It must be frustrating as hell and I feel for him and we need to stick by our team and not cut them down with negativity. He knows that our offense needs to generate and I am sure he has tried many things to make this happen, but sometimes it just doesn't work. It is easy to tell the players exactly what they need to do to win, but following through and being able to do so in a game is another story. You can practice harder, do different drills, but if you don't have the chemistry, leadership and talent together as a team it won't happen.

I think we just lack developed talent and it isn't the coaching. You can coach a kid through and through, but if they don't have the right chemistry and talent to work with, it's a very tough road. No doubt our team is less talented this year and had Hakstol taken over last year people would be praising him. Some people may think this team is more talented than I do, but I feel we just feel they are because we have researched and followed them so closely. Other team's fans probably feel they have the best talent and can't do anything with it either. It all depends on how you rate or compare your teams talent level to others. Do you do it simply by # of NHL draft picks or just by watching their play compared to other teams in the league? We have been so spoiled here the past few years that we expect a lot out of each of our players because they should be the best because of our tradtion. Oh well this is deep stuff and I just wanted to express what I think is going on with this team.

[Poncho & Lefty]

Very true, Murray is an interesting case to look at. I'm not positive but I believe he played on either the powerplay or regular lines with a couple of good former sioux players who are getting paid now. I still believe there is a combination of lack of senior leadership and coaching problems. With these kids getting drafted before they are freshman in college they've never been told not to do something. If I'm a Radke, Zajac, or Spirko i wouldn't listen to average seniors like Genoway and Fylling either. I'm not saying its right to think that way but I could see where they would be coming from.

[Cratter]

Come on another thread to question coaching?

Get a life.

Like I said before, how about you wait a couple years.

One cannot compare this year to last, because Zach Parise and Brandon Bochenski are some of the greatest players to lace up the skates for the Sioux.

[redwing77]

Come on another thread to question coaching?

Get a life.

Like I said before, how about you wait a couple years.

One cannot compare this year to last, because Zach Parise and Brandon Bochenski are some of the greatest players to lace up the skates for the Sioux.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Very good!

Murray's drop in production was, or should have been, expected. He can't score every goal. Look at tonight's game. He set up Zajac PERFECTLY.. TWICE! But the puck didn't go in. If you set people up and they can't finish, you don't get points. If you make a great shot but it gets tipped or an equally great save is made, you don't get points. In the last few games, Murray has had such luck.

[Sioux_Hab-it]

Guys, cut Murray some slack. How well do you skate and play with a brace on a bum knee. I noted that the brace was bothering him at tonights game.

[DMT]

Very good!

Murray's drop in production was, or should have been, expected. He can't score every goal. Look at tonight's game. He set up Zajac PERFECTLY.. TWICE! But the puck didn't go in. If you set people up and they can't finish, you don't get points. If you make a great shot but it gets tipped or an equally great save is made, you don't get points. In the last few games, Murray has had such luck.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I saw Stafford make a couple of good passes, but the only passes Murray made were right on the tape of CC players.

[schmidtdoggydog]

I saw Stafford make a couple of good passes, but the only passes Murray made were right on the tape of CC players.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It doesn't help that you watched the game at Sal's in Cando!

[DMT]

It doesn't help that you watched the game at Sal's in Cando!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[CoteauRinkRat]

One cannot compare this year to last, because Zach Parise and Brandon Bochenski are some of the greatest players to lace up the skates for the Sioux.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Did Minnesota lose Vanek and Ballard? How are they doing this year?

[Sioux_Hab-it]

Did Minnesota lose Vanek and Ballard? How are they doing this year?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

As of the Christmas break not very well. It would appear that both Briggs and their Freshmen defense are burned out.

[Goon]

As of the Christmas break not very well.  It would appear that both Briggs and their Freshmen defense are burned out.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If I am not mistaken I think I called that earlier this season.

Hum, Briggs can't stop a beach ball all of a sudden. Funny...

[Cratter]

Did Minnesota lose Vanek and Ballard? How are they doing this year?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

They seem to be doing all right. What is your point?

01Grad compared Murray's point production of this year to last, which I pointed out was like apples and oranges, because see above, helping set Murray up and finish his set ups (which he will get an assist for).

[Five-HoleFrenzy]

"If I am not mistaken I think I called that earlier this season.

Hum, Briggs can't stop a beach ball all of a sudden. Funny..."

Goon, It had to be hard for you to acknowledge any kind of success that Briggs had earlier, so it is looking better about the beach ball comment now that he is not on the top of his game. No question about it, in the last two games he has not played very well.

[oldralph]

Ok, I don't chime in often, but something about this thread made me want to respond. As far as coaching I think Hakstol is fine...and I don't hear people saying maybe they should have brought in Sandelin anymore Sandy is not having a good year with a team that was supposed to be mature and talent laiden. It must be the coaching. As to our talent, we have it, what we don't have are enough people that want to go to the net. All our players like to work from the outside and make pretty passes, but what we need are more people willing to take the puck and/or themselves to the net. As to Stafford, I think Drew has to get tougher. I don't think he likes to go to the net or into the corners to be hit. He has moocho talent but doesn't take a hit well. When he played at the WJC and nobody was hitting he lit it up. When they hit he is less effective. As to Murray, I often forget about his knee injury earlier this year and that could be part of the reason his production is down, however, even before the injury he did not look near as fast as he was last year. I think adding 17 pounds over the off-season slowed him down some and took away what really made him dangerous, his speed. I think if Brady works on that over the off-season and gets his speed back he will dominate next year. As to the rest of the team we need contributions from people that have scored at other levels and are now seniors. Quinn Fylling's senior year is a disappointment, James Massen the same as well as a number of others. To me it looks like one of our most effective players is Eric Fabien. It's too bad he's hurt so much as he brings a ton of heart and hustle to the game. That kid works his butt off everytime he's on the ice and makes things happen, it just isn't ending up on the scoreboard because noone on the 4th line can put the puck away. Ok, noone on our team can put the puck away. I think until some on our team develop a Cary Eades attitude on the ice we will have problems winning games. We need a combination of gritty players with big hearts to offset the skilled ones and lately there is a lack of grit and heart and downright nasty attitude in front of the net. Refuse to be stopped going to the net and things will start turning positive. Ok, I'm done and these are only my opinions, they are not necessarily correct. Sorry if they offend anyone.

[Northcountry]

We are down 2-1, under 5:00 minutes to play, time to get ready for a final frenzy to get the tying goal and we take a penalty, then another, then another. Down 5 on 3 and the camera pans to the penalty box where two Sioux players sit, hoping that their teammates can kill the penalties - One of them has a letter "C" on the shoulder of his jersey, the other a letter "A". Draw your own conclusions.

[Goon]

"If I am not mistaken I think I called that earlier this season.

Hum, Briggs can't stop a beach ball all of a sudden. Funny..."

Goon,  It had to be hard for you to acknowledge any kind of success that Briggs had earlier, so it is looking better about the beach ball comment now that he is not on the top of his game.  No question about it, in the last two games he has not played very well.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I actually wasn't sold on him when he was doing better earlier in the season. I know there are Gophers fans out there that feel the same way. I am sure that if Lucia has any confidence in J.J. he would be out on the ice.

[Goon]

Ok, I don't chime in often, but something about this thread made me want to respond.  As far as coaching I think Hakstol is fine...and I don't hear people saying maybe they should have brought in Sandelin anymore   Sandy is not having a good year with a team that was supposed to be mature and talent laiden. It must be the coaching.  As to our talent, we have it, what we don't have are enough people that want to go to the net.  All our players like to work from the outside and make pretty passes, but what we need are more people willing to take the puck and/or themselves to the net.  As to Stafford, I think Drew has to get tougher.  I don't think he likes to go to the net or into the corners to be hit.  He has moocho talent but doesn't take a hit well.  When he played at the WJC and nobody was hitting he lit it up.  When they hit he is less effective.  As to Murray, I often forget about his knee injury earlier this year and that could be part of the reason his production is down, however, even before the injury he did not look near as fast as he was last year.  I think adding 17 pounds over the off-season slowed him down some and took away what really made him dangerous, his speed.  I think if Brady works on that over the off-season and gets his speed back he will dominate next year.  As to the rest of the team we need contributions from people that have scored at other levels and are now seniors.  Quinn Fylling's senior year is a disappointment, James Massen the same as well as a number of others.  To me it looks like one of our most effective players is Eric Fabien.  It's too bad he's hurt so much as he brings a ton of heart and hustle to the game.  That kid works his butt off everytime he's on the ice and makes things happen, it just isn't ending up on the scoreboard because noone on the 4th line can put the puck away.  Ok, noone on our team can put the puck away.  I think until some on our team develop a Cary Eades attitude on the ice we will have problems winning games.  We need a combination of gritty players with big hearts to offset the skilled ones and lately there is a lack of grit and heart and downright nasty attitude in front of the net.  Refuse to be stopped going to the net and things will start turning positive.  Ok, I'm done and these are only my opinions, they are not necessarily correct. Sorry if they offend anyone. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well said.

[Goon]

We are down 2-1, under 5:00 minutes to play, time to get ready for a final frenzy to get the tying goal and we take a penalty, then another, then another.

Edited January 15, 2005 by Goon

[Sioux_Hab-it]

[Northcountry]

I only saw it on the tube, but I commented several times that I thought Radke was superb last night along with a few other freshmen. On the other hand Schneider and Greene have been in this league for four freakin years and if they haven't learned yet how to handle end-of-games situations, it ain't never gonna happen. I for one am tired of hearing Sioux fans bitch and whine about how terrible and inconsistent the officiating is - it seems to be the excuse for everything. It usually takes about 2 shifts for the radio guys to make their first comments about it and about one offside or one penalty for the Engelstad crowd to make theirs. Player have to learn to play the game and forget about the officials.

[SiouxTupa]

Listening to Hennessy last night I noticed a few names that popped up more than others.

Radke

Bina

Genoway

Canady

Fabian

Murray

Spirko

Each of those players "seemed" to play at full speed, and when they were on the ice, the puck "seemed" to be in CCs zone.

Since I wasn't able to see it, I can't pass judgement. I know people are down on Murray for not contributing enough, but I swear I heard more than a few times..."what a beautiful setup by Murray." Zajac wasn't able to cash in on some excellent opportunities.

The loss last night sounded like a great game. This would be the ideal time to start burying the puck. As long as we finish well, I have faith in the team. All winning teams have stories of crumby beginnings and rocky roads. The key is to battle through it.

Remember...80% of success comes from having the right attitude. Only 5% is talent.

[Sioux_Hab-it]

Zajac couldn't cash in because the CC did a great job of smothering him. At times it was a borderline mugging.

[redwing77]

I only saw it on the tube, but I commented several times that I thought Radke was superb last night along with a few other freshmen.  On the other hand Schneider and Greene have been in this league for four freakin years and if they haven't learned yet how to handle end-of-games situations, it ain't never gonna happen.  I for one am tired of hearing Sioux fans bitch and whine about how terrible and inconsistent the officiating is - it seems to be the excuse for everything.  It usually takes about 2 shifts for the radio guys to make their first comments about it and about one offside or one penalty for the Engelstad crowd to make theirs.  Player have to learn to play the game and forget about the officials.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wow! I didn't know Greene was a senior! I thought he was a junior? I am sick of the bitching too. I am sick of all the bitching going on that puts the blame of our woes on one or two particular players. The Sioux are a TEAM. The reason we aren't winning cannot be put on single players' shoulders. It is a team issue. So knock off the Greene bashing. Do you realize that he made... wha? uh.. Yup. 1 MAYBE 2 mistakes the entire game? You can't blame him for not scoring, he's not that kind of a defenseman! Oh, and by the way, before you cry about those two mistakes they resulted in a save by Phil and a penalty killed off. Total of 0 points allowed. Any mistakes that do not result in points for the opponents are not to be set aside, but are not flame worthy either.

And uh, I hardly see anyone blaming the loss on the officiating. I see everyone blaming Anderson for being an extremely inconsistent and incompetant referee. There is a difference.

We lost last night. We were extremely undisciplined with a few shady calls late in the 3rd period, but we killed off the entire thing! Did anyone notice that? 2.5 minutes of 5x3 (I think) hockey and we killed it off. Folks, this was not a bad game. Neither team played poorly. Just they capitalized on our two mistakes and we only capitalized on one of theirs. We have to finish more and we'll do better. As far as losses are concerned, I think we've never looked better in a losing effort than last night. Odd to say that, but it is true.

[Goon]

Zajac couldn't cash in because the CC did a great job of smothering him.  At times it was a borderline mugging.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Your right they have reverted to BACK to reffing the way things were last season.

Muggings clutching and grabbing. C.C. does this quite well.