UND moving up?

[CoteauRinkRat]

Why not participate in a legit discussion instead of initiating smack......

Great point, too bad none of you Bison fans get it.

[IowaBison]

You're insane if you think anyone would pick UND over Creighton, unless the kid was from Grand Forks county.

Facilities mean something, but no one would trade making the first round of the NCAA tournament with the North Central Regional, that's a true eye popping experience.

A full Qwest Center trumps an empty Ralph for basketball in my book.

[star2city]

You're insane if you think anyone would pick UND over Creighton, unless the kid was from Grand Forks county.

Facilities mean something, but no one would trade making the first round of the NCAA tournament with the North Central Regional, that's a true eye popping experience.

Edited September 10, 2004 by star2city

[The Sicatoka]

A full Qwest Center trumps an empty Ralph for basketball in my book.

star2city said:

If each school could sell 9000 tickets for men's conference games, which facility would a potential recruit be most enthused about?

Put head-to-head with 9000 in the seats, it gets to be a pretty tough call.

EDIT: I see star2city has clarified.

[star2city]

All this talk about UND moving up is theoretical and premised on the possibility of gaining conference affiliation. Other than the Big Sky, the one conference that former NCC schools had been touting was the Mid-Continent. But surprisingly little has been mentioned about that possiblity recently. Perhaps there already has been correspondence between the Mid-Con and those schools, only they and the media have not chosen to report the information because it is negative. Could this explain why UNC, which was formerly gung ho for the MID-Con, is now pursuing the Big Sky with open arms? Here are two message board postings on this subject:

Mid-con has told SDSU, NDSU and UNC it is not interested?

Officially contacted, and told "Thanks but No Thanks"?

[IowaBison]

sorry, missed that.

the point still remains would a kid pick going .500 or going .700+ and making the tournament once or twice, it's not very close in my book.

if you want to talk about SU go over to Bisonville and do it, i'd be happy to respond.

[Bisonfan1234]

I still think the BSA has potential. They need to completely resurface the outside. Preferably with brick to match the rest of NDSU's buildings.

The current permanent seats should extend all the way to the floor, and matching permanent seats should be put all the way around the court.

If those two things are done, the BSA could be great for bball and vball.

I'm not sure how long that would take, but bball could always play in the dome until they get it finished. Worst case, in the bunker.

The only thing that leaves is practice space. Obviously they can practice on the game court. The bunker is good for practice as well.

[The Sicatoka]

Permanent seats = no more indoor track facility.

Gotta think these things through.

[Cratter]

Perhaps a better question you should be asking is: even if the BSA gets a facelift, how in the world could NDSU ever be competitive in recruiting against any of the mid-major schools listed above? Throwing $8-16 million at the BSA would still leave NDSU with by far the worst B-Ball facilities for a D-I school in the six-state region. Your position is far worse than if UND went D-I.

Another question while I'm at it: If NDSU does get the financing for the BSA remodeling together, what are they going to do while the BSA is overhauled? It will take more than a summer overhaul to get that work done, so where would the BBall teams play and more importantly practice? The Bunker? FargoDome? Fargo Civic Center? Would you suspend your indoor track program? This wouldn't seem to be a good situation for a D-I school.

I'm betting NDSU will tear down the BSA and build a new basketball facility after consultants said it would cost to much to repair/renovate. $8-16 million that seems a little steep to me to renovate a building, considering the extravegant Betty only cost approximately 7 million.

[dakotadan]

If we can build the Betty for 7 million imagine the arena that could be built with up to 16 million. Now that would be a nice arena.

[bisonguy]

:

Mid-con has told SDSU, NDSU and UNC it is not interested?

Officially contacted, and told "Thanks but No Thanks"?

star2city,

It's very interesting that the first link you provided is only questioning the validity of the second link you provided

Who said the Mid-Con isn't interested? Link, please.

The person who posting the "Thanks, but no thanks" message has the credible source of "the word on the street".

Also of interesting note- some of these-(from the same board)-

Mid-Con possibilities

Future Mid-Con membership

NDSU/SDSU good for the Mid-Con if the Big Sky doesn't take them first

[star2city]

It's very interesting that the first link you provided is only questioning the validity of the second link you provided

Edited September 10, 2004 by star2city

[star2city]

If we can build the Betty for 7 million imagine the arena that could be built with up to 16 million. Now that would be a nice arena.

I am not a construction expert, but it would probably take considerably more than $7 mill to reproduce the Betty on a new lot. By building the Betty attached to the Ralph, the savings on avoiding capital costs for utilities, telecom, and HVAC systems would have to be considerable, never mind the maintenance support and staff already in tact at the Ralph.

Beyond that, 4000 seats is not reasonable capacity for a new BSA. Doubling a capacity to 8000 roughly quadruples the price, to roughly $25 - 30 million.

[Hansel]

here is what 21 Million can do , no mention of capacity- earlier estimates were around 7-8k for the facility

[bisonguy]

here is what 21 Million can do , no mention of capacity- earlier estimates were around 7-8k for the facility

It seats 6,100- McLeod Center Groundbreaking

[Bisonfan1234]

Permanent seats = no more indoor track facility.

Check out Idaho State's facities page on their sports site. They have a banked, modular indoor track that can be set up on any flat surface.

My idea is to buy one of those, set it up on Dacotah Field w/ a bubble for practice and move the track to the dome for big meets.

Doubling a capacity to 8000 roughly quadruples the price, to roughly $25 - 30 million.

Luckily...

I am not a construction expert

I honestly don't think we'll need a new arena if the BSA gets a new exterior and new seats.

[dakotadan]

UNI's new arena sure looks pretty nice. I wish that was more what the betty was like. Then we wouldn't really even have to worry about playing in the ralph.

[Cratter]

UND has a good reason to move up. "Profit Sharing" from the Frozen Four they participate in. UND has missed out on some good money in the past.

[Hansel]

UND has a good reason to move up. "Profit Sharing" from the Frozen Four they participate in. UND has missed out on some good money in the past.

I had heard they don't get any money from that in the past- any idea how much making the frozen four is worth?

[Hansel]

never mind

looks like the money doesn't go directly to the school, but rather goes to the conference

[bisonguy]

[star2city]

It seats 6,100- McLeod Center Groundbreaking

UNI spending $21 million on a 6,100 seat BB stadium (with limited suites) confirms that upping the capacity of the Betty would have been prohibitively expensive (capacity vs cost is not linear as you scale up) when there are other future needs in the athletic department (football training, indoor track, baseball stadium). A 6000 seat Betty would have cost at least $15 mill and caused fundraising and/or financing issues.

[Bisonfan1234]

You don't work in construction, so where are you getting these numbers?

[star2city]

You don't work in construction, so where are you getting these numbers?

I work in an industry where scale-up issues are major concerns. Just as in my industry, a "ballpark" estimate of stadium construction costs can be interpolated using costs of existing recent projects (adjusting for inflation, # of suites, real estate cost, marble, labor rates, leather seats, etc.).

[Bisonfan1234]

IE you're using the 4000 seat/$7 million betty- 6000 seat/$21 million McLoud comparison.

Those are not comparible construction jobs.