Goon Posted February 23, 2004 Share Posted February 23, 2004 Look at what's going on at Michigan, Michigan State, and Maryland (and don't kid yourself, now Oregon and the Pac-10 will be next). To think the NCAA won't try is to not understand the NCAA. Remember: All the actions at all these places started after the 2004 NCAA meetings in Nashville in January. I believe something is afoot from those meetings. How the heck would the NCAA enforce something like this? I can't imagine throwing out 10,000 students out of the Big House in Michigan during a football game for dropping F-bombs. Its not possible, unless you have 2000 cops/security. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigmrg74 Posted February 23, 2004 Share Posted February 23, 2004 How the heck would the NCAA enforce something like this? I can't imagine throwing out 10,000 students out of the Big House in Michigan during a football game for dropping F-bombs. Its not possible, unless you have 2000 cops/security. The NCAA is kidding themselves if they think they could ever effect student behavior at sporting events. I live near Ann Arbor and have intimate knowledge of the carnival atmosphere that is a Michigan football tailgater. I've seen guys out on their porches at 8 o'clock in the morning, with a sign out in front that says "You honk, we Drink." There is very little they could do to curb student behavior short having the 1 to 5 ratio of cops to students. And then thats just to control the students, not to mention all the other sceratiy they need at the game. Its just not cost effective. And there is no way they could toss that many people out of michigan stadium without having a riot on their hands. Its going to hurt little Timmy a lot less if he hears a little cussin, than if he gets caught up in a riot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCM Posted February 23, 2004 Share Posted February 23, 2004 People are missing the point. The NCAA doesn't have to curb student behavior by kicking anyone out of games. It can do it by regulation, such as preventing schools with chronic fan misbehavior problems from hosting tournaments and playoff games. And has everyone forgotten that the NCAA has seriously looked into American Indian nicknames? Do you think they won't revisit that issue if they continue to receive complaints about racial slurs being used by Sioux fans? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goon Posted February 23, 2004 Share Posted February 23, 2004 And has everyone forgotten that the NCAA has seriously looked into American Indian nicknames? Do you think they won't revisit that issue if they continue to receive complaints about racial slurs being used by Sioux fans? OK, I will bite on this one. That is a hugh stretch. Swearing/vulgarity and the UND Fighting Sioux name, these are two different issues. Besides if UND has to change its Fighting Sioux name (which isn't going to happen from the NCAA end) then other schools like the Illini, the Utes and the Seminols are going to change also. I don't see UND or any of the above schools doing this any time soon if ever. Just my HMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted February 23, 2004 Share Posted February 23, 2004 That is a hugh stretch. It doesn't have to be a huge stretch. It doesn't even have to be logical. It's the NCAA. They do whatever is politically expedient for their benefit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCM Posted February 23, 2004 Share Posted February 23, 2004 Swearing/vulgarity and the UND Fighting Sioux name, these are two different issues. Besides if UND has to change its Fighting Sioux name (which isn't going to happen from the NCAA end) then other schools like the Illini, the Utes and the Seminols are going to change also. I don't see UND or any of the above schools doing this any time soon if ever. Yes, they are two different issues, which is why I addressed them in two separate sentences. However, both do fall under the general category of fan behavior. My point is that fan behavior at UND is already under a microscope by the NCAA because of the Sioux name issue. And if you don't think that opponents of the Sioux name won't link the swearing and vulgarity issue to the name issue, think again. Doreen Yellow Bird already has pointed out that there's no way Sioux fans can claim to be honoring the Sioux tribe with their crude behavior at sporting events. While you might not think that UND or any other school could be forced to drop their American Indian nickname, I wouldn't bet against the NCAA. If they wanted to make an example out of a smaller, weaker school like UND (which already has image problems because of its association with Ralph Engelstad) as a means of trying to force bigger schools in line, they certainly could try it. Will they be successful? Who knows? Is it worth the risk? In my opinion, no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoteauRinkRat Posted February 23, 2004 Share Posted February 23, 2004 It's the NCAA. They do whatever is politically expedient for their benefit. Isn't that the truth. The NCAA rarely ever makes a decision that is beneficial to schools, players, fans, or coaches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diggler Posted February 23, 2004 Share Posted February 23, 2004 Swearing is just the hot button issue for the NC$$ right now, much like the running onto the court/field after a big win is. Whether you think swearing is a problem or not, there are much more important issues that the NC$$ could be dealing with. They waste their time trying to regulate something that should be up to the individual schools, meanwhile you have things going on at Universities around the country like what is occuring at Colorado. Perhaps if the NC$$ would spend their time trying to stop internal corruption at schools rather than trying to prevent students from swearing and celebrating, some real solutions could be found and real problems could be solved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MafiaMan Posted February 23, 2004 Share Posted February 23, 2004 Be careful what you wish for...you just might get it. Isn't that the truth? I am a Sioux season ticket holder and the new "corporate" REA has me longing for the days of the old arena. It's too big, there's too much boozing going on instead of watching hockey, and now the environment is as sterile as a doctor's office. It's a shame. I was up there last for the Findlay/Sioux game and must say it was booooooooooring. What really got me was the 2000-3000 people standing around the bar area while the game was going on and never making it back to their seats. The hockey game itself has become the side show to the carnival act. And every week I am bombarded with e-mails from theralph.com telling me that "plenty of good seats still remain." Great. The #1 team in the country can't even sell out. Should make for good times when the Sioux are below .500 and have a down year or two, which will happen eventually. I remember the old REA with 6000 fans being louder than the current library that the new REA is. Hell, I can think of several under-capacity crowds at the old building louder than the 10K plus that inhabit the new building. Can you even find a t-shirt in the pro shop that says "University of North Dakota" in addition to Fighting Sioux? Very few. Most I've seen are stamped with "Ralph Engelstad Arena...Home of the Fighting Sioux." I never ever thought I'd agree with the anti-Sioux name protesters, but I do now. Ralph's gift, while incredible in its value, came with a lot of strings attached, not the least of which apparently makes the Sioux his de facto personal hockey club. I was in Mankato this past weekend and have come to the conclusion that I like going to the road games more than the home games these days. Good luck to the students and those trying to rile things up in Grand Forks. One thing I will say....I met President Kupchella a few year ago before his first ever game at Mariucci. He and his wife stopped over at Grandma's at an alumni function. He seemed very personable and asked some questions about the team, the nickname, etc. and was VERY interested in how proud the alumni were of the Sioux tradition and the hockey team. Don't completely screw the pooch by blasting him totally...talk to him and make him see your viewpoint. Go in with guns a-blazin', and he'll smack the door in your face. Just my two cents. And for the poster who talked about throwing 10,000 people out of Michigan Stadium for swearing. I've been to several UM games over the past five years and have yet to see an incident of total stupidity on the part of fans. Now imagine CBS' reaction if the audio was to pick up fans chanting "who's he, he sucks s***" and other assorted swear cheers on live TV? Think the execs there wouldn't want to dump UM football in a heartbeat? You bet they would. If Michigan can control 107,510 fans week in and week out, how come UND can't contain the 5-10 morons swearing loudly enough for the entire arena to hear? And don't get me started on parking around arenas. You'd be stunned to hear that it's easier to leave Michigan Stadium after a football game than it is Target Center after a T-Wolves game. Go Sioux! MafiaMan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fighting Sioux #1 Posted February 23, 2004 Share Posted February 23, 2004 As a side note.....Mankato fans sure the heck are not saints either!!! Did anyone catch the F-bomb at the end of Tim Hennessy's broadcast?? An opposing fan clearly told Hennessy to, "Put that on you F#*$ing radio program!!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MafiaMan Posted February 23, 2004 Share Posted February 23, 2004 I believe it's already been noted that it may have been a Sioux fan gloating about the 10-1 victory who may have made that comment. Some investigating or an eye-witness account may need to verify that. It's definitely not a one-way comment and could have been made by a fan from either school. However, on the subject of classless fans, I did hear the "you suck Parise" right at the beginning of the national anthem. Took me back to the days of hearing "Michigan sucks" yelled right before the anthem at the Xcel Energy Center just before the Minnesota/Michigan game in 2002. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigmrg74 Posted February 23, 2004 Share Posted February 23, 2004 And for the poster who talked about throwing 10,000 people out of Michigan Stadium for swearing. I've been to several UM games over the past five years and have yet to see an incident of total stupidity on the part of fans. Now imagine CBS' reaction if the audio was to pick up fans chanting "who's he, he sucks s***" and other assorted swear cheers on live TV? Think the execs there wouldn't want to dump UM football in a heartbeat? You bet they would. If Michigan can control 107,510 fans week in and week out, how come UND can't contain the 5-10 morons swearing loudly enough for the entire arena to hear? And don't get me started on parking around arenas. You'd be stunned to hear that it's easier to leave Michigan Stadium after a football game than it is Target Center after a T-Wolves game. CBS would cut away to commersal, or will get the audio from a differnent part of the stadium where they can pick up the game sounds without all the chanting. *just like they did in those insidents with the Tit and the Streaker, who, bless his heart, got no attention after Janet and even got Terry Tated for his trouble.* In the stadium it wouldn't sound a lot to have a small section of people chanting with swears, but get one of them big funky microphones pointed that way and people watching the game at home ear's would start bleeding. Michigan makes way too much money for lots of people. A few of their players are known to get really good lease deals on SUV's, if y'all know what I mean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCM Posted February 23, 2004 Share Posted February 23, 2004 A couple of comments: 1. I've attended games in the old Engelstad Arena at which the atmosphere was DOA and never got better. The atmosphere was not always rockin' in the old building. 2. I've attended games in the new Engelstad Arena at which the atmosphere easily rivaled that of the old arena. The atmosphere isn't always museum-like in the new building. 3. It's only natural that merchandise sold at the REA Pro Shop would feature the name of the arena, although not all of it does. Many people come to Grand Forks just to see the arena. 4. Those who want athletic clothing oriented more toward UND can buy it at or order it from the UND Book Store. 5. Ralph has been dead for more than a year, which makes it rather difficult for him to operate his own personal hockey team. 6. The North Dakota Legislature decreed that the new REA had to be self-supporting before the state would accept it. If you want to complain about the commercialization of the Ralph, blame the penny-pinching elected officials of the state. On the other hand, if you're happy that no state or local tax dollars are used to fund the operation of the Ralph, you can thank your penny-pinching elected officials. 7. Not to disagree with YaneA, but I, too, heard the comment containing the F-bomb on Saturday night's radio broadcast of the Mankato game. It was made in such a hostile manner that I had no doubt it was said by a Mankato fan who was angry about the Sioux running up the score. It probably didn't help that Hennessy had been ripping on some of the Mankato fans in front of him throughout the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted February 23, 2004 Share Posted February 23, 2004 You have the best college hockey facility on earth, plus, it supports itself through its operations. Me-thinks it sounds like some folks are complaining because their ice cream is cold. And all this "Old Ralph" nostalgia: ask me some time and I'll tell you about the day I had my choice of 500+ old arena "rush seating" student section spots .... AGAINST MINNESOTA. No, I'm not kidding. And having heard the F-bomb on live radio as well (and knowing Hennessy had made an earlier comment to the effect that "looking at this crowd it's clear they serve here" ) I'm almost positive that was an unhappy (about Lundbohm scoring at 19:42 to make it 10-1) Mankato fan. Knowing Hennessy's style, he'd have let it slide if it was a Sioux fan and gone on without acknowledging it. His "really classy" retort assured me it wasn't a Sioux fan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoteauRinkRat Posted February 23, 2004 Share Posted February 23, 2004 I heard the comment to and thought it was a Mankato fan. I really don't understand why a Sioux fan would have said it. I actually thought it was funny how Tim H. kept complaining about how the fans in front of him hadn't watched a single second of the game either night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MafiaMan Posted February 23, 2004 Share Posted February 23, 2004 The state law regarding self-sufficient gifts was on the record LONG before the building of the new Engelstad Arena. It prevents people and corporations in the state from dumping non-profitable "gifts" upon the state. Don't think for a minute that Mr Engelstad wasn't aware of that during the construction of the facility. Do you think his intent was to hand over the keys to the building to the university right away? As far as my comments about being Ralph's personal hockey team, I obviously meant that for when he was alive. I'm not completely opposed to the new building, my point is that it's still the "Sioux" and the "University of North Dakota." Instead, we're bombarded with Ralph this, Ralph that, #23's everywhere...like I said, a monument to his legacy when the real focus should be on the university and the team. Now if you want something positive regarding the jumbo-tron instead of my ripping on #23 being displayed during light shows, let me just say that I love the instant replays and I really like the "Sioux tradition" and honoring the name and spirit bit that is played before the games or during periods. Back to the comment about empty seats in OLD Engelstad...doesn't that validate my point about new Engelstad being too big? You think 10,000 people will watch hockey when UND is having some abyssmal times like 94 and 95? No way! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSSS Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 All right here we go sorry for the delay, Hope all is well anyways, I met with Kupchella and he wants to work with us at improving the atmosphere at all fighting sioux athletics and I couldn't agree anymore. I have drafted a new misison statement of SSSS and it goes a little something like this, "We are working with the Students, Administration, Public, and Facilities to improve the atmosphere at Fighting Sioux Athletics." I have been talking to REA to get some of the ideas to them, I have a phone meeting with the person incharge of those things over there tomorrow and she will hear alot of the ideas that have been presented here in the forum and all the ideas I have gotten via personal e-mail. When I talked to her on the phone today and gave her idea of what I had and she seemed very interested in what students have to say and the ideas they have. I am going to try and get some implemented by the Tech series becasue that week is fan appreciation week and no better time to address the issue. I am also going to ask that all students that go to those games work well with the REA staff and the other students trying to make it better and get the rest of the fans involved not saying that some aren't but we need to get more. Well I will update you all after I have talked to REA and some others around campus. Also, fairly soon I am planning to have a Student forum in the Union to hear all the ideas in person as well as field any questions you might have. Any other questions that you might need answered I will try via-email or the forum. Thanks all for the support and help the only way things are to improve is with help. Aaron Easton aeaston@aero.UND.edu P.S. a UND ALUMNUS ONCE SAID: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagies Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 Way to go, Aaron. Doing something about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCM Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 The state law regarding self-sufficient gifts was on the record LONG before the building of the new Engelstad Arena. Really? Then perhaps you can explain this editorial from the April 23, 2001, Grand Forks Herald: Give arena upkeep to UND By Tom Dennis for the Herald Suppose you needed a car, and a relative was kind enough to give you one. Would you say, Thanks. Now give me the money to pay for gas, too? No? Then support the amendment in Bismarck that would give the maintenance responsibility for the Engelstad Arena to UND.The amendment would repeal 1999 language in which the state told UND to pay for the arena's operations with sources outside the state budget. Or this article from the April 18, 2001, Grand Forks Herald: Engelstad Arena upkeep could go to UND By Jaime DeLage, Herald Staff Writer A law requiring UND to set up a special fund for the maintenance of the new Engelstad Arena would be repealed by an amendment now under consideration in the North Dakota Legislature. The amendment repeals language adopted in the final days of the 1999 legislative session. The 1999 law was designed to ease concerns that the new arena would become a burden to UND and, therefore, the state. It says a separate fund, made up of operating profits, donations or other funds, should be established... Do you think his intent was to hand over the keys to the building to the university right away?I don't know what his intent was because I can't read minds. But initially, Engelstad gave every indication that it was his intent. It was only after the legislature put conditions on UND's acceptance of the arena and UND appeared to be headed toward dropping the Sioux name that Engelstad changed his plans. I'm not completely opposed to the new building, my point is that it's still the "Sioux" and the "University of North Dakota." Instead, we're bombarded with Ralph this, Ralph that, #23's everywhere...like I said, a monument to his legacy when the real focus should be on the university and the team. The man gave UND an extraordinarily generous gift. It's a gift intended to help Grand Forks recover from the 1997 flood. It creates millions of dollars in economic impact for the city every year. It's a gold mine for UND athletics. It has enabled UND to attract some of the best talent in college hockey. It's a gift that will bring international recognition to the region when the World Junior Championships are here next year. Don't you think Ralph Engelstad deserves some recognition for that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YaneA Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 Aaron: What does the abbreviation "SSSS" stand for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoteauRinkRat Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 Aaron: What does the abbreviation "SSSS" stand for? I'll answer for Aaron, it stands for Students Supporting Sioux Spirit, the title of this forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MafiaMan Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 PCM, I stand corrected on the legislature issue. I've been researching to back up my point, but I think you win that round. Onto Ralph Engelstad himself, I think you should realize that I'm on the same team as you. I think his gift to the school and to the state was extraordinary in its intent and purpose and I'm proud to be a Sioux hockey fan. Funny you should mention the World Junior Tournament next season as I will be driving from Minneapolis/St Paul to see it. It's also very exciting to host a future NCAA hockey regional where hopefully UND can benefit from home crowds the way Michigan and Minnesota have in recent years. Am I griping for a move back to the old building? No. I understand the recruiting advantage that the arena gives kids who would otherwise look elsewhere. Look around you...the great Dane is gone, so is old Mariucci (which I even liked due to its imposing atmosphere), CC, Denver, etc. all have new arenas. It's called progress and it happens. However, I long for a return to the "atmosphere" created in the old building. There were many games I recall where the Sioux fans willed their team to a goal. I've brought this up before and I'll do it again...sometime in my four years at UND (88-92), they played Northern Michigan and were down 5-0 in the third period. Some guy stands up and starts chanting "Let's Go Sioux." Half the arena had left already but the 3000 or so fans left weren't going to give up. Five goals later, the game went into OT and it ended a 5-5 tie. The NMU players left the ice like they had lost the game and the UND players gave a stick salute to the fans in appreciation for what they had done to rally the troops. The only time in my life I can say that I went home happy with a tie. THAT'S what I want to see in the new arena. Plenty of Gopher fans here in Minneapolis chide me about the Nazi story with Ralph Engelstad and I am quick to point out some of the things he did in life other than his $100 million gift...the meals and haircuts for the homeless around holidays in Las Vegas, the wheelchair donation, etc...all things that people who despised the man never cared to take the time to look at and those who didn't know him at all except for the "Nazi story". My main gripe is that so much is made of "the gift," though, that the focus is taken off of the Sioux team and put onto Ralph himself. Take for example other things...what did the new Sioux logo (which I very much like) have to do with past NCAA Sioux champions? Answer? Nothing. So why change every single logo in the new building? To have snazzy matching banners? Big deal. Leave the geometric Indian or Blackhawk logo alone. Those logos were part of the history of UND. Let's not re-write the books. REA might be the arena that the Sioux play in, but as far as I'm concerned, the University of North Dakota is the home of the Sioux. Now, let me point out some positives over the past 15 years or so. When I was in high school (Belfield, ND, about 40 minutes from the Montana border on I-94), NO ONE and I mean NO ONE west of Fargo knew anything about Sioux hockey. When Dean Blais named Mitch Vig of Bismarck the captain of the team (1998 season, if memory serves me right), I drove back to Belfield for Christmas and 90 year old grannies at the nursing homes were talking Sioux hockey. Last year, I wondered if I would see scores on the local news out of Dickinson...turned out that the Sioux were the #1 sports story of the evening, which included highlights of the game. High schools like Williston, Dickinson, and Hazen-Beulah now have hockey programs. I wish like hell those had existed when I was a kid, but those are the breaks. Dean Blais' state-wide promotion of the Sioux, getting some in-state kids on the team, and Ralph Engelstad's donation have played a major factor in getting the Sioux recognized around a greater portion of the state of North Dakota and the US. And next winter, the stage gets even bigger. As far as the size of Engelstad, no one's touched that topic yet. Is it too big? Anybody now think serving alcohol is a BAD idea? Yost Ice Arena seats just over 8,000 fans. And since I've been there personally several times (1998 western regional and 2001 Michigan/Ferris State), I can honestly say it's second-to-none in terms of being a hostile atmosphere. It's all about the HOCKEY, folks, not the beer, sight-seeing, hey-everyone-look-at-me-I'm-at-a-hockey-game-and-I'm-a-corporate-big-shot attitude like you see at Mariucci Arena and Xcel Energy Center. People have griped about the home fans in Mankato where coincidentally, they serve alcohol. Two seats in front of me stood one of the few Sioux fans in the section. The drunken idiot made a complete a$$ out of himself and the school he was representing by wearing a white Sioux jersey. He taunted Maverick fans around him the whole night. If the issue was hosting regionals, UND could have done that easily with 9,000 seats. Like I said before, if UND couldn't draw 3,000 fans into the old building with a sub .500 team, how will 3,000 fans sound in the new building with a similar team? Just my thought that alcohol either makes fans sit down and fall asleep or turns them into drunken swearing idiots and that REA might be a bit too big for its britches. That all being said, GO SIOUX! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMT Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 MafiaMan, is that Ron Jeremy with a Sioux jersey on in your avatar? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fedorov Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 I'll answer for Aaron, it stands for Students Supporting Sioux Spirit, the title of this forum. It isn't Students Sitting Super Silently? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 I'm pretty sure the old Ralph was "too big" in 1972. When the new REA opened some were claiming too small. (It was originally projected at over 12000.) Now some say too big. Honestly, it's about right. It'll be an awesome facility for the next 50 years. Now, does alcohol deaden an atmosphere? I've seen raucous crowds in new REA. I've seen dead ones. I've seen loud crowds in Mariucci; I've seen otherwise. The same goes for The X. The same goes for Mankato for that matter. They were pretty boisterous last year and pretty quiet this year. It's not serving. The bottom line with a crowd is this: Give them something to cheer about, or have someone leading them, and they'll cheer. Forgive me, but Saturday, February 14, 2004, the UND Fighting Sioux gave the home fans nothing to cheer about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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