Future UND/ Bison football Game

[Hayduke]

Anyone still have small man syndrome?

It's almost like someone who wants to get their name into the Fargo Forum commits a petty theft to do so.

Third rate salespeople will do ANYTHING for attention!

[SiouxVolley]

Time for a summary review of UND and NDSU conference affiliations. Big Sky Conference(BSC), Summit League(SL), Missouri Valley Football Conference(MVFC), Western Athletic Conference(WAC), and Western Wrestling Conference(WWC) and the National Collegiate Hockey Conference(NCHC). Yes, even hockey has had to take a step back if not down. Let's face it everyone of these conferences is below where we should ultimately be as an institution. Is this where we want to be 25 or 50 years from now? Our conference affiliations look like a can of alphabet soup! The State of North Dakota deserves better than minor league, FCS, or mid-major status.

The Big Sky conference will be going FBS. Idaho is joining for football. That changes things. A replacement league for the WAC.

The NCHC won't accept DII members anymore: it is eyeing BCS (read B12 and Pac 12) schools that will start hockey. Minot State and NDSU can join the WCHA with Bemidji and Mankato.

[SiouxVolley]

This tell GT this and tell BF this is starting to wear a little thin. If all this telling is so damn important why don't you schedule a personal meeting with them and explain your perspective. Neither Brian nor Gene are inherently bad and sinister people. They are no different than the rest of us. Although after reading some of these posts on various message boards, I am beginning to question whether some people deserve that benefit of the doubt.

I have news for you. Gene Taylor is being disingenuous about scheduling UND. It's all talk and no action. Most unbiased people would consider his behavior sinister. Even Kolpack and Izzo consider him to be the problem, but they won't write articles about them because they don't want to lose access to him. Taylor will more or less blacklist them so they can't do their job.

[The Sicatoka]

Gene Taylor would be much more credible in all of this save for:

- Taylor proposed a plan, Faison accepted, Taylor backed out of his own offer <-- some would say Taylor reneged on a handshake agreement; poor form in North Dakota

- the home and home he's since scheduled with Weber State <-- don't even try to tell me that a home Weber State game is more valuable than a home UND game to NDSU; and the return game vs UND would be more cost effective (bus, no flight) for NDSU as well; so much for the 'economic circumstances' argument posed

Those two pesky details hurt Taylor's credibility.

Taylor would be better served to just stand up and say he'll never schedule UND under his watch.

Not much more to say in this thread as that's still not faced retort or refute.

Folks would do well to save their breath (keystrokes?) and re-read the last sentence of that.

[Goldfinger]

Not much more to say in this thread as that's still not faced retort or refute.

Folks would do well to save their breath (keystrokes?) and re-read the last sentence of that.

1. Dates and locations were agreed upon, however details were never worked out and a contract never got signed for reasons we don't know. Now after 3 NDSU championships UND wants the same deal that was discussed 3 years ago. The business climate of NDSU football has dramatically changed since those discussions took place. Try getting season tickets. Unless you've got a dozen wells pumping around Parshall, good luck.

2. Weber State wasn't an ideal deal for NDSU. A twelve game season, dates that worked out, combined with the home and home Weber State did when NDSU was an FCS nobody got that deal done. At the moment, NDSU has a lot of motivation to get home games on their schedule. Sometimes a match can't be found and NDSU may end up doing a home and home. Ideally if a home and home series is signed hopefully it's a perennial playoff team. Just because a deal with Weber State was worked out doesn't mean UND is entitled to the same deal.

GT offered a 2 game series both games in Fargo for a 175k to 195k guarantee. UND averaged 8500 fans last season. Add in the expense say of 150k to bring in an opponent, I'd be shocked if UND nets more than 100k for an OOC game.

GT offered a lucrative deal for both institutions.

UND has more to gain by renewing the rivalry.

IMO, BF doesn't want the rivalry.

[Bulk Truck]

The Big Sky conference will be going FBS. Idaho is joining for football. That changes things. A replacement league for the WAC.

The NCHC won't accept DII members anymore: it is eyeing BCS (read B12 and Pac 12) schools that will start hockey. Minot State and NDSU can join the WCHA with Bemidji and Mankato.

1. The Big Sky has no immediate plans for going FBS in football.

2. Idaho is joining in all sports in 2014 except football.

3. When did the NCHC outline any membership restrictions or announce any expansion plans?

4. NDSU has no immediate or even medium to long range plans to start mens/womens hockey.

5. What Big 12 or Pac 12 institutions have announced mens/womens hockey plans?

6. What announcements has Minot State made in regards to establishing mens/womens hockey?

[nd1sufan]

1. The Big Sky has no immediate plans for going FBS in football.

2. Idaho is joining in all sports in 2014 except football.

3. When did the NCHC outline any membership restrictions or announce any expansion plans?

4. NDSU has no immediate or even medium to long range plans to start mens/womens hockey.

5. What Big 12 or Pac 12 institutions have announced mens/womens hockey plans?

6. What announcements has Minot State made in regards to establishing mens/womens hockey?

The fact that only 2 schools in the BSC qualify attendance wise for FBS doesn't stop SiouxVolley from preaching about the whole conference going FBS, so why should he need facts for any of your other points. Maybe UND should play NDSU in Fargo every year and maybe GT will allow UND to count them as "home games" go they can boost their attendance numbers.

[The Sicatoka]

1. Dates and locations were agreed upon, ...

2. Weber State wasn't an ideal deal for NDSU.

1. There's the handshake agreement, and renege by Taylor; again, the point stands: poor form in North Dakota.

2. No, it wasn't and isn't ideal for NDSU ... so why do it? Answer: It was a convenient 'out' for Taylor to fill his schedule with something other than UND, 'economic circumstances' be damned.

Taylor would be better served to just stand up, man up, and say he'll never schedule UND under his watch. Right now he's just pussyfooting around.

[The Sicatoka]

The fact that only 2 schools in the BSC qualify attendance wise ...

How things are today is how they'll always be.

</cynicism>

[darell1976]

The fact that only 2 schools in the BSC qualify attendance wise for FBS doesn't stop SiouxVolley from preaching about the whole conference going FBS, so why should he need facts for any of your other points. Maybe UND should play NDSU in Fargo every year and maybe GT will allow UND to count them as "home games" go they can boost their attendance numbers.

But currently 5 of them have stadiums that hold over 15k (the FBS minimum), with other stadiums that could reach that number either by adding seating (UC Davis) or renovation (Cal Poly).

http://www.news.ucda...l.lasso?id=8384

http://en.wikipedia...._Spanos_Stadium

http://en.wikipedia...._Sky_Conference

[darell1976]

1. There's the handshake agreement, and renege by Taylor; again, the point stands: poor form in North Dakota.

2. No, it wasn't and isn't ideal for NDSU ... so why do it? Answer: It was a convenient 'out' for Taylor to fill his schedule with something other than UND, 'economic circumstances' be damned.

Taylor would be better served to just stand up, man up, and say he'll never schedule UND under his watch. Right now he's just pussyfooting around.

It will come back and bite him the day BF tells the media UND has now completed its schedule through the 2018 schedule (need only 3 spots to fill), while GT is bitching to Izzo and Kolpack that no one wants to play him and may have to result in playing Morningside College.

[darell1976]

5. What Big 12 or Pac 12 institutions have announced mens/womens hockey plans?

http://en.wikipedia....ckey_Conference

In game play, the ACHA follows the NCAA Rulebook for ice hockey.

• The North Division consists of four teams: Oregon, Utah, Washington and Washington State.
  

The South Division consists of four teams: Arizona State, California, UCLA and USC.

http://www.stanfordd...-to-the-pac-12/

Though college hockey has traditionally only flourished in the Midwest and on the East Coast, West Coast interest in the sport should not be downplayed. Six Pac-12 schools (the four California universities, Arizona State and Colorado) are located within 50 miles of an NHL arena. And don’t get me wrong — I’m talking to you, cross-country runners and golfers — but as one of the four major American sports, hockey is much more student-fan accessible than some of the sports that are common out west.

With several club teams already in existence amongst Pac-12 schools, building college hockey on the West Coast shouldn’t be written off so easily. It would take some time for Stanford to rise to the prominence we all take for granted, but the same can be said for any other sportwhich has been proposed for adoption time and time again.

And before you write them off, who saw a Big 10 hockey conference and Penn State joining DI hockey.

[Bulk Truck]

But currently 5 of them have stadiums that hold over 15k (the FBS minimum), with other stadiums that could reach that number either by adding seating (UC Davis) or renovation (Cal Poly).

http://www.news.ucda...l.lasso?id=8384

http://en.wikipedia...._Spanos_Stadium

http://en.wikipedia...._Sky_Conference

Dream on darell! Outside of the P5 anything is going to be FBS minus anyway. UND doesn't belong in a conference made up of in large measure of former teacher's colleges that have somehow started to call themselves universities. Between the MVFC and BSC there are real exceptions like UC-Davis, Idaho, Idaho St, NDSU, SDSU, USD, Montana St. U of Montana, and maybe UNI along with Cal Poly. The rest will never measure up academic or commitment wise. Hey darell what an inspiration you are, the true makings of an 85 scholarship league. That 15,000 level has been a smokescreen for years, use Idaho as an example.

[Bulk Truck]

http://en.wikipedia....ckey_Conference

http://www.stanfordd...-to-the-pac-12/

And before you write them off, who saw a Big 10 hockey conference and Penn State joining DI hockey.

I have said all along, with UND's rich tradition of hockey, that there has to be a way for UND to gain admission in the Big 10 for hockey. I am sure it won't arrive without some pain, but that's where the program deserves to be. With all the Title IX implications of adding D-1 hockey don't expect hockey expansion any time soon. If you would have been thorough and completely forthright you would have provided the whole articles instead of selected quotes or passages that fit your fancy.

[darell1976]

Dream on darell! Outside of the P5 anything is going to be FBS minus anyway. UND doesn't belong in a conference made up of in large measure of former teacher's colleges that have somehow started to call themselves universities. Between the MVFC and BSC there are real exceptions like UC-Davis, Idaho, Idaho St, NDSU, SDSU, USD, Montana St. U of Montana, and maybe UNI along with Cal Poly. The rest will never measure up academic or commitment wise. Hey darell what an inspiration you are, the true makings of an 85 scholarship league. That 15,000 level has been a smokescreen for years, use Idaho as an example.

Why don't you just stop on anything outside of the p5 is FBS minus. No Dakota team will be in a p5 conference!! EVER!!

[Bison Dan]

I have said all along, with UND's rich tradition of hockey, that there has to be a way for UND to gain admission in the Big 10 for hockey. I am sure it won't arrive without some pain, but that's where the program deserves to be. With all the Title IX implications of adding D-1 hockey don't expect hockey expansion any time soon. If you would have been thorough and completely forthright you would have provided the whole articles instead of selected quotes or passages that fit your fancy.

UND will never be in the Big 10 for hockey - reason: Money Big 10 TV contract is huge.

[The Sicatoka]

... there has to be a way for UND to gain admission in the Big 10 for hockey. ...

I'd love for that, but I'm skeptical on the subject.

Pros:

Arena (capacity, TV capable)

History (w/ Minnesota, Wisconsin)

History (national power)

Cons:

BT hasn't allowed affiliates until recently (Johns Hopkins lacrosse)*

That would help** UND (and do Minnesota and Wisconsin want to help UND)

You know if Denver got wind of something like that as a possibility they'd lobby hard for the spot

There've long been whispers of Northwestern (or Iowa or Illinios) adding the sport

*Hopkins was brought in for lax but probably more so for their influence DC beltway influence on Congressional research funding.

**Visibility and money

[Bulk Truck]

Why don't you just stop on anything outside of the p5 is FBS minus. No Dakota team will be in a p5 conference!! EVER!!

Nothing in that previous post said anything about a Dakota school being in a P5 conference. Any conference move up to 85 scholarships was stated as becoming FBS minus. You must have failed reading for comprehension. You are a part of the Lunatic Fringe at both UND and NDSU, fortunately that number is relatively small in percentage terms. Your name should be Richard Noggin instead of darell.

[Bulk Truck]

I'd love for that, but I'm skeptical on the subject.

Pros:

Arena (capacity, TV capable)

History (w/ Minnesota, Wisconsin)

History (national power)

Cons:

BT hasn't allowed affiliates until recently (Johns Hopkins lacrosse)*

That would help** UND (and do Minnesota and Wisconsin want to help UND)

You know if Denver got wind of something like that as a possibility they'd lobby hard for the spot

There've long been whispers of Northwestern (or Iowa or Illinios) adding the sport

*Hopkins was brought in for lax but probably more so for their influence DC beltway influence on Congressional research funding.

**Visibility and money

Well stated, who knows what the future holds in store for college athletics. Something that is viewed as impossible today may turn into reality tomorrow. One thing we all should learn is never say never. Although I don't believe Denver's hockey chances would be anywhere close to what they might be for UND hockey.

[darell1976]

Nothing in that previous post said anything about a Dakota school being in a P5 conference. Any conference move up to 85 scholarships was stated as becoming FBS minus. You must have failed reading for comprehension. You are a part of the Lunatic Fringe at both UND and NDSU, fortunately that number is relatively small in percentage terms. Your name should be Richard Noggin instead of darell.

FBS minus?? Last I saw it's still FBS. Tell App St they are minus, tell Boise St they have been minus for a long time, guess what UND and NDSU one day will be minus too.

[Bulk Truck]

UND will never be in the Big 10 for hockey - reason: Money Big 10 TV contract is huge.

If UND could assist the current relatively diminished hockey profile for the Big 10, by helping with fan interest, renewing old rivalries, and generating additional revenue, Why Not? It may be offered with some conditions, but it may be worth it in the long run for everyone involved. It's not like they would be talking about adding St. Cloud State or Michigan Tech. Those type of schools maybe as close to never as you can get.

[mksioux]

1. I believe you are confusing my support for interstate vs intrastate rivalries. I stated that interstate rivalries are the best and on that we apparently have some agreement. I do not agree with Don Lucia and in fact I don't agree with anything a goofer coach might say. If it wasn't for the attitude of especially Mpls/St, Paul goofer fans maybe I would not be so polarized. I personally don't mind the polarization prior to the contest, but I do believe in sportsmanship after it's over. The rivalry should continue but we all know the reason for that. It starts with the arrogance of people like Big 10 Commissioner Jim Delany. I see no reason why some type of consideration for UND hockey as an affiliate to the Big 10 couldn't have been made or at least discussed. If it was I never heard about it.

We don't agree. Intrastate rivalries are generally the best in football. The reason I pointed to the UND-Minnesota hockey rivalry was to refute your point that interstate rivalries are not as toxic as intrastate rivalries. Sometimes they are. As to the Big Ten hockey thing, that's another topic. But the short answer is the Big 10 would never allow UND to be an affiliate member because those schools don't consider UND to be a peer institution academically.

2. Efficiency and productivity are staples to any successful operation and academics along with athletics are no exception. I agree the Lunatic Fringe at both UND and NDSU will likely never give an inch, but IMO that only makes up 10-15% for each school. That leaves IMO 70-80% of the State proud of the accomplishments of various sports at both schools. If all you do is talk to the Lunatic Fringe at either school it's easy to feel like you do, but as I travel the State I sense a different perspective. North Dakota has things going for it that make us stand out from MT, SD, or ID, similar States in size and scope. And at least in the 1880's we both would have been on the same page. Some of our most influential leaders back then thought the State Penitentiary was the most important institution to be located in your respective community. I do not feel our politicians in this State will do anything but screw things up worse if they get more involved.

What are you saying exactly? We should be proud of each other's accomplishments? And you think the best way to achieve that is if UND and NDSU don't play each other? If that is what you're saying, I disagree. First of all, you can be proud of the other's accomplishments even if they are playing the game, or you can choose to not care about the other team even if you're not playing. I don't think whether the two schools play each other is going to change anything in terms of your "efficiency and productivity" calculation. If anything, it more inefficient to not play the game. And since you brought up the 70-80% of the State that you do not consider the Lunatic Fringe, I bet you most of them want to see the game played. In fact, it's the Lunatic Fringe (mostly on the NDSU side, but some on UND's side) that doesn't want to see the game resumed. So I guess I fail to see your point.

3. I see support across the State for UND hockey and I am thankful that NDSU does not have hockey. It would only divide the base of fan support. You are correct in Minnesota's attitude towards NDSU athletics in general and even though UND hockey has been quite different over the years I see that changing if they are not in the same league. Outside of the Lunatic Fringe I personally experienced a great deal of Statewide support for NDSU football when they played Minnesota so I guess it's who you talk to and spend time with that determines perspective. I could care less if UND and NDSU ever play each other in football. I would rather see games against Minnesota, Montana , and the like but that's just personal preference. I would rather defeat gophers, grizzlies, badgers, and bunnies than get into a fight with my bother/sister as the case might be.

I know hard-core UND fans that were rooting for NDSU to beat Minnesota because of a State-pride thing. Do you not think those same people wouldn't have felt the same way if the rivalry game with NDSU was still being played? I think they would have. Likewise, those UND fans cheering against NDSU did so even though the rivalry game wasn't being played.

I know you're trying to come across as a moderate, and maybe you are. But your end-game sounds very similar to the NDSU Lunatic Fringe -- Everyone rally around NDSU football and UND hockey and let UND football fade into obscurity. But UND football will get better, and as they do, that pull for the two schools to compete will only get louder.

[Bulk Truck]

FBS minus?? Last I saw it's still FBS. Tell App St they are minus, tell Boise St they have been minus for a long time, guess what UND and NDSU one day will be minus too.

FBS minus is an anecdotal term used to describe the rest of FBS after the P5 do their thing. I hope the Dakota schools get to FBS minus that will be a step up from the level of football they are at now. FBS minus or whatever it will be called, will take the place of FCS as it exists today. Scheduling along with the possibility of 2 for 1 deals with the P5 could be possible positive ramifications. The P5 conferences are still going to need games to fill their schedules and if all they do is schedule teams in the P5 they will become inbred, potentially start to lose some fan interest at least regionally and maybe nationally, and finally destroy the David vs Goliath storyline that is always a fan favorite. FBS minus playoffs could become the NIT of college football and IMO that would be a higher profile than the current FCS playoffs have and possibly set the stage for possible inclusion in the Big Dance for FBS college football.

[darell1976]

FBS minus is an anecdotal term used to describe the rest of FBS after the P5 do their thing. I hope the Dakota schools get to FBS minus that will be a step up from the level of football they are at now. FBS minus or whatever it will be called, will take the place of FCS as it exists today. Scheduling along with the possibility of 2 for 1 with the P5 deals could be possible positive ramifications. The P5 conferences are still going to need games to fill their schedules and if all they do is schedule teams in the P5 they will become inbred, potentially start to lose some fan interest at least regionally and maybe nationally, and finally destroy the David vs Goliath storyline that is always a fan favorite.

There is nothing wrong with the FCS, currently it's where we belong. 5-10 years from now that may change but as of 2014 there is no need to degrade the current football division our team calls home.

[Bulk Truck]

There is nothing wrong with the FCS, currently it's where we belong. 5-10 years from now that may change but as of 2014 there is no need to degrade the current football division our team calls home.

FCS is the old D-II or more appropriately the old small college division as far as football is concerned. Roger Thomas is a good guy but your comments echo the same mentality that he used in holding UND and the entire NCC back at the worst possible time. At least NDSU and SDSU had some balls and vision to venture into the great unknown with a decision that should have happened at least 40 years ago.