impact of new conference on TV broadcast

[Cratter]

Just use iheartradio on your phone. Much easier to listen to the game than the mobile und app.

[watchmaker49]

It is unlikely they can force blackouts for a region. The reason they can restrict FSN from coming in is the same reason Midco can't do those games. CBSSN has an agreement with the conference and thus, the schools. They can control what broadcasts come out of the Ralph and other NCHC arenas. They can't control what other channels show if its at a game at UW, BC, etc.

Thank you.

[bincitysioux]

How many non-hockey sports are streamed through UND Insider? I'm currently watching UND basketball on bigskytv. I also was able to watch many volleyball games on bigskytv. UND Insider doesn't have a ton of purpose outside of hockey and VOD.

Exactly, and students don't have the disposable cash to shell out on UND Insider. It would also help students follow the non hockey sports, which would help develop the badly needed support for the basketball and football programs.

I would be fine with paying for hockey content, however.

North Dakota football, men's basketball, women's basketball, and volleyball games, both home and away, are streamed FOR FREE through Bigskytv.org. Just plug in your email address and you have access.

Men's and women's hockey are the only live events you can get from UNDinsider.com.

And I will add that, personally, I've found that the webcasts from Bigskytv.org are exponentially more reliable than those that can be found at UNDinsider.com, which is why I have such a problem with the University relying on their web-based services to provide content to fans.

[southpaw]

North Dakota football, men's basketball, women's basketball, and volleyball games, both home and away, are streamed FOR FREE through Bigskytv.org. Just plug in your email address and you have access.

Men's and women's hockey are the only live events you can get from UNDinsider.com.

And I will add that, personally, I've found that the webcasts from Bigskytv.org are exponentially more reliable than those that can be found at UNDinsider.com, which is why I have such a problem with the University relying on their web-based services to provide content to fans.

That is because each school likely offers different types of streams. Like Jayson reported from Matt, UND sends 800kbps constant for games. You will notice on bigskytv that it offers streams up to 1.5mbps variable which is higher quality than what und sends.

It also depends if the original signal is HD. An HD signal compressed to 1.5M looks a lot crisper than an SD signal at that rate. HD needs to be sent at minimum 3Mbps and that is what UND is doing next year for insider. It will likely be compressed to 1.5 for BSTV.

It's all in the quality of the stream being sent to BSTV. My guess is that on Insider, UND will send a 3, a 1.5 and an 500k so that people with slower Internet won't have the buffering issues they have now. People with faster Internet will automatically pull the higher quality feeds.

[Dustin]

Just for the heck of it, I went to Midcontinent's website and asked this:

Is Midcontinent pursuing to get the Midco Sports Network available on more cable and/or satellite systems throughout the country?

Their response:

Midco Sports Network will be available for cable systems in the region to pick up starting in August 2013. We suggest that you contact your cable or satellite provider and voice your support of Midco Sports Net.

Our website should have updates beginning in August.

UPDATE: Another response: We will present to Dish and DirectTV for fall 2013, but I have to admit it’s a bit of a long shot!

I've already contacted DirecTV even though I'm a Midco cable customer (I sometimes watch at my parents house in rural ND), and I suggest that all of you who watch on satellite do the same. The more they hear about Midco Sports Network, the better. What we really need is a UND grad in the marketing department at DirecTV!

[bincitysioux]

I'm a DirecTV subscriber and I've been emailing them almost weekly asking that they add Midco. Can't hurt anything!

Here are links to both the DirecTV and Dish customer support portals:

DirecTV

Dish

I say let's flood them both with requests to add Midco!

[krangodance]

Why isn't UND Insider free for students?

I think they'd rather you went to the game. And why wouldn't you? Unless things have changed the student section at men's hockey games is one of the greatest attractions to University life at UND.

[krangodance]

I've asked my right-hand man, Matt Schill, to put together a response for those of you concerned about webcast quality going forward. He speaks the language, I don't.

Thanks, Jayson.

This seems like the most important question for those of us who live outside the Midco broadcasting area. If I'm able to watch all home games online in HD without streaming issues and some games in HD on CBSSN then I consider that an improvement over watching most home games on TV in SD and a few online in SD as is the situation today.

This does seem like a situation that should be tested before next year. To stream HD you have to pull about 6 times as much data as you pull to stream SD. Combine this with the potential for maybe 2 or 3 times as many users of the web stream when most games are no longer broadcast on national TV and you're looking at somewhere between 12 and 18 times as much data being pulled from your server during the game as is currently being pulled.

Generally you want to stress test a server at a rate between 5 and 10 times what you'd expect to actually get. This helps ensure that everything works properly even if you greatly underestimate the load you will need to handle or if some unexpected variable causes your server to underperform at an inopportune time. This means you'd want to force a stress test somewhere between 60 and 180 times what you're currently seeing for data pull rates during live games. If your server can handle that then it's probably good. Otherwise there could be issues when the new HD stream goes live next year.

I'm not saying all this because I think the server team doesn't know how to do their jobs. I'm sure they're considering these implications and have or will address them. However, for many people posting on this thread, I'd guess there's some misunderstanding about how moving to HD while simultaneously increasing the number of Insider subscriptions could impact web stream quality.

[Fetch]

that is some impressive nerd verbage right there

[watchmaker49]

Thanks, Jayson.

This seems like the most important question for those of us who live outside the Midco broadcasting area. If I'm able to watch all home games online in HD without streaming issues and some games in HD on CBSSN then I consider that an improvement over watching most home games on TV in SD and a few online in SD as is the situation today.

This does seem like a situation that should be tested before next year. To stream HD you have to pull about 6 times as much data as you pull to stream SD. Combine this with the potential for maybe 2 or 3 times as many users of the web stream when most games are no longer broadcast on national TV and you're looking at somewhere between 12 and 18 times as much data being pulled from your server during the game as is currently being pulled.

Generally you want to stress test a server at a rate between 5 and 10 times what you'd expect to actually get. This helps ensure that everything works properly even if you greatly underestimate the load you will need to handle or if some unexpected variable causes your server to underperform at an inopportune time. This means you'd want to force a stress test somewhere between 60 and 180 times what you're currently seeing for data pull rates during live games. If your server can handle that then it's probably good. Otherwise there could be issues when the new HD stream goes live next year.

I'm not saying all this because I think the server team doesn't know how to do their jobs. I'm sure they're considering these implications and have or will address them. However, for many people posting on this thread, I'd guess there's some misunderstanding about how moving to HD while simultaneously increasing the number of Insider subscriptions could impact web stream quality.

This is what I was thinking also. If we can get a better stream than what we have had for a picture than what the hell. We are not losing anything. Easier to plug a laptop into a tv than anything else.

[Anderson2200]

For what its worth, I have also petitioned Cable One to pick up the Midco Sports Net feed although I would fully expect Dish or Direct to make a move before Cable One. I've already gotten a response from someone there saying they will look into this and get back to me with a more insightful response.

For any Cable One customers who want to add their support, you can do so here

[watchmaker49]

that is some impressive nerd verbage right there

Don't feel bad Fetch I really do not get it either.

[krangodance]

To say thay we as fans have " it too good for too long" has got to be one of the most idiotic and just un-intellectual, ignorant things I've ever heard.

Ask yourself. Would you open a point you're trying to make in a face to face conversation this way?

I don't agree with a "it's been too good for too long" philosophy either but, geez, it's just an opinion not a personal attack. I don't see how such a statement deserves your response.

[southpaw]

Thanks, Jayson.

This seems like the most important question for those of us who live outside the Midco broadcasting area. If I'm able to watch all home games online in HD without streaming issues and some games in HD on CBSSN then I consider that an improvement over watching most home games on TV in SD and a few online in SD as is the situation today.

This does seem like a situation that should be tested before next year. To stream HD you have to pull about 6 times as much data as you pull to stream SD. Combine this with the potential for maybe 2 or 3 times as many users of the web stream when most games are no longer broadcast on national TV and you're looking at somewhere between 12 and 18 times as much data being pulled from your server during the game as is currently being pulled.

Generally you want to stress test a server at a rate between 5 and 10 times what you'd expect to actually get. This helps ensure that everything works properly even if you greatly underestimate the load you will need to handle or if some unexpected variable causes your server to underperform at an inopportune time. This means you'd want to force a stress test somewhere between 60 and 180 times what you're currently seeing for data pull rates during live games. If your server can handle that then it's probably good. Otherwise there could be issues when the new HD stream goes live next year.

I'm not saying all this because I think the server team doesn't know how to do their jobs. I'm sure they're considering these implications and have or will address them. However, for many people posting on this thread, I'd guess there's some misunderstanding about how moving to HD while simultaneously increasing the number of Insider subscriptions could impact web stream quality.

I doubt the streaming server itself is at UND. I would imagine it is similar to how B2 handles their streams. The host school connects to the b2 server and sends the streaming video via Flash Media Encoder. The b2 servers then handle all of bandwidth of having thousands of viewers login to watch an HD feed. It would get expensive for NeuLion to have a dedicated server at each host institution. Much cheaper and more reliable to have a server hub that all of the schools send their feed to.

[Cratter]

Here's the thing though. If DirecTV picks up midco, how could midco show the games, when it would be violating the nchc contract with CBS cause midco would not be regional, and thus directly competing with cbcsn?!

[watchmaker49]

Here's the thing though. If DirecTV picks up midco, how could midco show the games, when it would be violating the nchc contract with CBS cause midco would not be regional, and thus directly competing with cbcsn?!

I would think that they could not or why would they not continue to be on FCS.

[southpaw]

Here's the thing though. If DirecTV picks up midco, how could midco show the games, when it would be violating the nchc contract with CBS cause midco would not be regional, and thus directly competing with cbcsn?!

Midco would still be a regional network, it would just be carried nationally on directv. There would be a channel dedicated solely to Midco content.

It's different than FCS, which picks and chooses games from regional channels but is a national network.

[watchmaker49]

Midco would still be a regional network, it would just be carried nationally on directv. There would be a channel dedicated solely to Midco content.

It's different than FCS, which picks and chooses games from regional channels but is a national network.

That does not answer cratter and my question though. Even if they had their own channel how would Midco be able to show games nationally when CBS owns the rights to broadcast the NCHC games nationally?

[krangodance]

I'm a DirecTV subscriber and I've been emailing them almost weekly asking that they add Midco. Can't hurt anything!

Here are links to both the DirecTV and Dish customer support portals:

DirecTV

Dish

I say let's flood them both with requests to add Midco!

Thanks for the link!

I just emailed DirecTV. This is a great way to get things done when it comes to television programming. TV providers typically want to deliver content that will be viewed by the largest audience so the more of us who ask for DirecTV to pick up Midco Sports the more likely they'll at least perform a cost / benefit analysis. Whether or not that will equate to them acutally adding Midco Sports to their programming is impossible to know but it's better than nothing.

[Dustin]

How would Midco be able to show games nationally when CBS owns the rights to broadcast the NCHC games nationally?

I think it is because it would not be broadcast on a "national" network. It just so happens that a DirecTV subscriber could add a sports package that includes regional networks like Midco (hopefully!!). Think of it as Fox Sports Dakota. Who knows, it may even be part of normal regional programming in this area, kind of like getting your local networks or Fox Sports North.

[southpaw]

How would Midco be able to show games nationally when CBS owns the rights to broadcast the NCHC games nationally?

Because Midco is a regional network. Their main focus is to broadcast local (ND/SD) content. The reason games can't be on FCS is because FCS is a national network. They don't have a regional focus, despite their Atlantc, Central and Pacific channels. They really just put whatever they want on each of the channels.

Midco is similar to Root Sports Rocky Mountain and Altitude, ecept those two are already carried by directv. If either of those companies wanted to broadcast DUor CC games, they could. If UND was in Denver, they would likely have a contract with one of those 2 companies and would have all oftheir games aired nationally. That is why it is important for UND fans to join with NDSU, SDSU and USD fans to contact directv. The more pressure, the more likely they are to pick up Midco.

[krangodance]

I doubt the streaming server itself is at UND. I would imagine it is similar to how B2 handles their streams. The host school connects to the b2 server and sends the streaming video via Flash Media Encoder. The b2 servers then handle all of bandwidth of having thousands of viewers login to watch an HD feed. It would get expensive for NeuLion to have a dedicated server at each host institution. Much cheaper and more reliable to have a server hub that all of the schools send their feed to.

That sounds right. It's still worth the effort to find somebody to perform some solid stress testing before just going ahead with a plan to switch your broadcast from SD to HD while simultaneously doubling or tripling your user base.

I realize the HD broadcast will be designed to stream at whatever rate allows for the best picture with the fewest skipping and pixilation issues. This aspect will be useful when you're connecting from a less than ideal internet connection. However if the server simply can't handle the data request rate it will simply downsize all streams regardless of the size of the pipe on the receiving end, which negates the whole point of going to HD in the first place.

[krangodance]

Here's the thing though. If DirecTV picks up midco, how could midco show the games, when it would be violating the nchc contract with CBS cause midco would not be regional, and thus directly competing with cbcsn?!

I would have to think blackout rules would apply. This would mean that whatever channel Midco is broadcasting on (in our hypothetical world where DirecTV has picked up Midco Sports) would not be able to show the game on days when the game is being carried by CBSSN. I'm not certain that's the case but I have noticed that when a Big Ten game is on some obscure channel (think the 600s range on DirecTV) and also on CBS or FOX then the obscure channel gets blacked out. This might only be because CBS and FOX are local broadcasts though.

[southpaw]

That sounds right. It's still worth the effort to find somebody to perform some solid stress testing before just going ahead with a plan to switch your broadcast from SD to HD while simultaneously doubling or tripling your user base.

I realize the HD broadcast will be designed to stream at whatever rate allows for the best picture with the fewest skipping and pixilation issues. This aspect will be useful when you're connecting from a less than ideal internet connection. However if the server simply can't handle the data request rate it will simply downsize all streams regardless of the size of the pipe on the receiving end, which negates the whole point of going to HD in the first place.

That's why it is great that UND is partnered with NeuLion. They work with schools that have much larger fanbases and have been doing HD for several years. They know what the servers can handle. Hopefully, they anticipate the jump in viewership. Fortunately, they have access to the Insider subscription numbers, so they will be able to see a big jump in September and early October before the first game.

[southpaw]

I would have to think blackout rules would apply. This would mean that whatever channel Midco is broadcasting on (in our hypothetical world where DirecTV has picked up Midco Sports) would not be able to show the game on days when the game is being carried by CBSSN. I'm not certain that's the case but I have noticed that when a Big Ten game is on some obscure channel (think the 600s range on DirecTV) and also on CBS or FOX then the obscure channel gets blacked out. This might only be because CBS and FOX are local broadcasts though.

There wouldn't be an issue with blackouts for a game carried by CBSSN, because CBSSN would be the only way to watch the game. Midco would not be airing the game, even on their local channels. They wouldn't have a crew working the game, they wouldn't have a truck setup and they wouldn't be listing the UND game on their schedule.