Idaho St. v. North Dakota

[bincitysioux]

The Bengals are sitting at 3-8 in conference play and 4-16 overall. They've lost 4 in a row.

On paper we should handle these guys at the Sioux Center and we already stole one from them in Pocatello. However, all 3 of their conference wins have come against teams that have beaten us, and 2 of those wins were on the road for ISU.

North Dakota is playing at or near .500 and is only a couple losses away from being out of the top 7. With a road trip to the Montana schools looming ahead, this game against the Bengals becomes a must win today.

Gametime is 2:00, and as always will be on Big Sky TV.

[Dustin]

I will be there! Hopefully some hockey fans in town for the Wisco series will show some love for the hoops.

[bincitysioux]

I will be there! Hopefully some hockey fans in town for the Wisco series will show some love for the hoops.

We are hitting both games today.

[sioux2013]

This is a no doubt must game with a very tough road trip going to Montana and Montana State. If we lose this one we could easily fall to 5-9 in the conference after next weekend. I predict we win this one by 10+ and hope for a split next weekend.

[Oxbow6]

At my 1st home MBB since the 1st year the Betty opened. The '88-91 teams I watched at the Hyslop would beat this current squad by 25.

Talent poor...

[sioux2013]

At my 1st home MBB since the 1st year the Betty opened. The '88-91 teams I watched at the Hyslop would beat this current squad by 25.

Talent poor...

Give me a break.

[Oxbow6]

Give me a break.

I came in to the Betty w little expectations. This is really bad basketball. You have any clue about those teams I referenced?

[SiouxVolley]

At my 1st home MBB since the 1st year the Betty opened. The '88-91 teams I watched at the Hyslop would beat this current squad by 25.

Talent poor...

Agree with Oxbow on this.

The top of DII is easily better than 200-250 of the 350 DI teams. The 88-91 team had talent in the middle, which this team is definitely short on. Guldseth initially went to LSU on full scholarship but just didn't fit in culturally, him being from a small ND town. Not aware of anyone on this team that got a full scholarship offer from any top conference. For a guard oriented team like UND now is, they have to shoot exceptionally well behind the 3 pt line, which is not typical of this team.

Not trying to take anything away from the current team, as without all the injuries and adversity, they could possibly be a top 150-200 team in DI. Right now some ratings have them down at less than #250.

[sioux2013]

Agree with Oxbow on this.

The top of DII is easily better than 200-250 of the 350 DI teams. The 88-91 team had talent in the middle, which this team is definitely short on. Guldseth initially went to LSU on full scholarship but just didn't fit in culturally, him being from a small ND town. Not aware of anyone on this team that got a full scholarship offer from any top conference. For a guard oriented team like UND now is, they have to shoot exceptionally well behind the 3 pt line, which is not typical of this team.

Not trying to take anything away from the current team, as without all the injuries and adversity, they could possibly be a top 150-200 team in DI. Right now some ratings have them down at less than #250.

Good win today and one we needed. Disagree the top D2 teams are better than 60+% of the D1 schools. Yes they will win some games against D1 teams here and there but they are not better than 250 of D1 schools, no way.

[UND92,96]

I was at UND from 1988 to 1992, and did not miss a single home game. I also played against Boschee, Vonesh, Guldseth, Jacobson, Robertson and Gardner in high school (some in summer league or camps only). With all due respect to the current team, I believe the 1990-91 team in particular (V, Gardner, Gully, Boschee and Rico) was better than the current team at all five starting positions, and I believe it would have been the case even with a full strength team this year. From a purely athletic standpoint, one or two current starters would have an advantage over their 1991 counterparts. But as overall basketball players, the old-timers were better IMO.

[SiouxVolley]

Good win today and one we needed. Disagree the top D2 teams are better than 60+% of the D1 schools. Yes they will win some games against D1 teams here and there but they are not better than 250 of D1 schools, no way.

Have you ever seen Metro State play? They are unbeaten and rated just under #100 by Massey. They easily be over a .500 team in DI and could easily win either a Big Sky or WAC tournament. Western Washington in basketball would have a good shot at third after Weber and Montana in the Big Sky.

A 300-350 rated DI team is worse than at least 25-50 DII teams.

Slapping a DI label on a team does not automatically mean that that team is better than all DII teams.

Think younger fans are just ignorant of just how good UND basketball has been in the past.

[Sioux_FF]

Different eras and different levels of competition. This year's team is playing teams that are bigger, stronger, more athletic and way deeper than any UND Mens BB team has ever played in D2. That has to be a factor in any fair comparison. I was at the game this afternoon (I've only missed one home game this year) and thought it was a pretty decent game. I think this team and this level of play is better than the era mentioned earlier. I went to all those games too. I even watched Phil Jackson in person a couple times in the 60's. Comparisons between eras are tough, but you have to look at the caliber and quality of the teams we are playing this year, and not just the nostalgic feeling about great Sioux teams of the past. I like to do that too.....

For some, it might be a case of "the older I get, the better I was (or it was)" type of thing. And that's OK.

[fightingsioux4life]

Have you ever seen Metro State play? They are unbeaten and rated just under #100 by Massey. They easily be over a .500 team in DI and could easily win either a Big Sky or WAC tournament. Western Washington in basketball would have a good shot at third after Weber and Montana in the Big Sky.

A 300-350 rated DI team is worse than at least 25-50 DII teams.

Slapping a DI label on a team does not automatically mean that that team is better than all DII teams.

Think younger fans are just ignorant of just how good UND basketball has been in the past.

You can't really blame them, most of them weren't even born or were very young when UND Men's Basketball was worth the price of admission.

[sioux2013]

Different eras and different levels of competition. This year's team is playing teams that are bigger, stronger, more athletic and way deeper than any UND Mens BB team has ever played in D2. That has to be a factor in any fair comparison. I was at the game this afternoon (I've only missed one home game this year) and thought it was a pretty decent game. I think this team and this level of play is better than the era mentioned earlier. I went to all those games too. I even watched Phil Jackson in person a couple times in the 60's. Comparisons between eras are tough, but you have to look at the caliber and quality of the teams we are playing this year, and not just the nostalgic feeling about great Sioux teams of the past. I like to do that too.....

For some, it might be a case of "the older I get, the better I was (or it was)" type of thing. And that's OK.

Excellent points. The UND teams of the past were playing D2 teams also and may have been that much better than their competition and we are playing D1 schools that are bigger and stronger than us. Today's athletes in any sport are far more athletic, stronger than teams of 20+ years ago. I would however imagine the UND teams you are talking about were much more team oriented and fundamentally sound compard to this current team cause this team still does not box out nor do they know how to set screens nor there is no inside/out game at all and all of these 3 basic fundamentals of basketball drives me crazy that we dont understand how to do these things.

[Oxbow6]

ISU had borderline D2 talent from what I saw today.

[UND92,96]

Excellent points. The UND teams of the past were playing D2 teams also and may have been that much better than their competition and we are playing D1 schools that are bigger and stronger than us. Today's athletes in any sport are far more athletic, stronger than teams of 20+ years ago. I would however imagine the UND teams you are talking about were much more team oriented and fundamentally sound compard to this current team cause this team still does not box out nor do they know how to set screens nor there is no inside/out game at all and all of these 3 basic fundamentals of basketball drives me crazy that we dont understand how to do these things.

I believe the keys to the early 1990's teams were unselfishness and being fundamentally sound. There was also better size up front than at present.

5-Vonesh couldn't jump very well, but he would have absolutely abused any of UND's current bigs with strength and an unstoppable fadeaway jumper.

4-Gardner was a shot-blocking beast with ridiculously long arms and a good scorer, and was also vastly superior to any current UND big.

3-Guldseth was sort of like Huff with an additional 25 pounds of muscle and a better shooter.

2-Boschee was an unbelievable 3-point shooter.

1-Burkett was a phenomenal athlete who didn't need to score much but could penetrate at will and find the open man.

It also didn't hurt to have future highly-successful division I head coaches Greg McDermott as the primary assistant, and Ben Jacobson as sixth man/coach on the floor.

[SiouxVolley]

Different eras and different levels of competition. This year's team is playing teams that are bigger, stronger, more athletic and way deeper than any UND Mens BB team has ever played in D2. That has to be a factor in any fair comparison. I was at the game this afternoon (I've only missed one home game this year) and thought it was a pretty decent game. I think this team and this level of play is better than the era mentioned earlier. I went to all those games too. I even watched Phil Jackson in person a couple times in the 60's. Comparisons between eras are tough, but you have to look at the caliber and quality of the teams we are playing this year, and not just the nostalgic feeling about great Sioux teams of the past. I like to do that too.....

For some, it might be a case of "the older I get, the better I was (or it was)" type of thing. And that's OK.

It's not nostalgia. It's facts.

Twenty years ago, there were 7 DI teams in the upper Midwest. Today there are 12. There were like 280 DI teams then, and nearly 350 now. The top level of DI ball today is better, but the DII level is not. DI ball at the lower levels has been watered down by the huge amount of DII teams that have moved up.

Woodside from NDSU never had a real DI offer, except from a move up team.

Wolters went to SDSU, because no higher DI non-Summit team would offer.

Practically the entire Woodside team and the current SDSU team would be playing at the NCC DII level in that era because they didn't have higher offers. Both teams made the NCAA DI tournament with players that would in an earlier decade been predominately DII recruits.

Woodside and Wolters are clear examples of players that would have been DII, if they had played in an earlier era.

The entire current UND squad would have had only DII offers if UND and other schools had not moved up. That changes with Quinton Hooker.

[Oxbow6]

I believe the keys to the early 1990's teams were unselfishness and being fundamentally sound. There was also better size up front than at present.

5-Vonesh couldn't jump very well, but he would have absolutely abused any of UND's current bigs with strength and an unstoppable fadeaway jumper.

4-Gardner was a shot-blocking beast with ridiculously long arms and a good scorer, and was also vastly superior to any current UND big.

3-Guldseth was sort of like Huff with an additional 25 pounds of muscle and a better shooter.

2-Boschee was an unbelievable 3-point shooter.

1-Burkett was a phenomenal athlete who didn't need to score much but could penetrate at will and find the open man.

It also didn't hurt to have future highly-successful division I head coaches Greg McDermott as the primary assistant, and Ben Jacobson as sixth man/coach on the floor.

The only UND player I saw today that would've gotten a sniff of PT on that team is Huff and he would've been guy #7 or #8.

[NODAK13]

Agree with Oxbow on this.

The top of DII is easily better than 200-250 of the 350 DI teams. The 88-91 team had talent in the middle, which this team is definitely short on. Guldseth initially went to LSU on full scholarship but just didn't fit in culturally, him being from a small ND town. Not aware of anyone on this team that got a full scholarship offer from any top conference. For a guard oriented team like UND now is, they have to shoot exceptionally well behind the 3 pt line, which is not typical of this team.

Not trying to take anything away from the current team, as without all the injuries and adversity, they could possibly be a top 150-200 team in DI. Right now some ratings have them down at less than #250.

I guess I must be really bored but I checked the records of the top 10 D2 teams in the country as of right now and what their record is versus D1 schools this year. They are 0-11 but this does not reflect on their record cause they are all listed as exhibition games on their schedule. The mix of D1 teams played is from Duke to Colorado State.

[UND Fan]

I won't get into the discussion of whether a lot of DII teams are better than DI teams today or 20 years ago. The two teams were from different eras but I firmly believe that the team of the early 90's would beat this team 8 times in 10 games. They were talented, disciplined, fundamentally sound and unselfish!

[bincitysioux]

At my 1st home MBB since the 1st year the Betty opened. The '88-91 teams I watched at the Hyslop would beat this current squad by 25.

Talent poor...

I came in to the Betty w little expectations. This is really bad basketball. You have any clue about those teams I referenced?

Why don't we compare this year's LA Lakers to the to the 1980's Lakers teams that had Magic, Jabbar, Worthy, etc while we are at it?

Let me guess, it's Mussman's fault?

[bincitysioux]

Now if North Dakota played TEAM basketball like that every game, they'd get alot done in this conference.

Shot 47% for the game, and racked up 17 assists to just 5 Turnovers! That's good basketball. Free throw shooting was terrible though. That was probably one of Webb's best overall games since he's been here: 12 pts, 7 assists, 4 rebounds, 0 turnovers.

Granted, the opponent is not very good, but this is the type of basketball that this team is capable of. Really needed this one heading to Montana next week.

Attendance was just under 2,000. First game I've been to this year. Had a great time.

[sioux2013]

I won't get into the discussion of whether a lot of DII teams are better than DI teams today or 20 years ago. The two teams were from different eras but I firmly believe that the team of the early 90's would beat this team 8 times in 10 games. They were talented, disciplined, fundamentally sound and unselfish!

There is no doubt in my mind that the early 90's team was more disciplined and fundamentally sound and very unselfish cause this current team most of the time none of these, I have complained about this for several years. But the athletes, quickness and physical part of the game which is now played definately goes to the current team. The problem with this current team is they will not beat in today's D1 era a team the plays unselfish and is fundamentally sound. Only a couple players on this team is fundamentally sound and unselfish, all the others play for themselves. Take last night for example, we were up double digits with under 2 minutes to go and Anderson on 2 straight possessions shot the ball with 25 seconds left on the shot clock and then Huff did the same thing on a third possession, fortunate for us they made a difficult shot. They don't understand time and score at all, they just wanted to get their points and thats all its about for some.

[Oxbow6]

Why don't we compare this year's LA Lakers to the to the 1980's Lakers teams that had Magic, Jabbar, Worthy, etc while we are at it?

Let me guess, it's Mussman's fault?

You're a tool by the way...mods aren't immune to that you know. Your duckies and bunnies, nose up the a** of Muss and I assume Jones as well is entertaining though.

If you thought yesterday's play was anywhere close to those older teams referenced it shows your BB knowledge is on par with your FB knowledge.

[bincitysioux]

You're a tool by the way...

If you thought yesterday's play was anywhere close to those older teams referenced it shows your BB knowledge is on par with your FB knowledge.

Takes one to know one I suppose.......................

You're criticizing my knowledge of basketball, yet you are the one who walked into the Sioux Center yesterday expecting to see Guldseth and Gardner in uniform.

This also just in: the 1992 and 1993 Dallas Cowboys had better players than the 2012 Dallas Cowboys........................