Todd Hoffner

[fightingsioux4life]

That's a crappy argument. Welcome to the real world. You don't get to pick your boss. You could get hired by somebody who then gets fired the next day. You're now required to work for the new guy. You can either work for him, or you can leave. Somebody else surely will take your job if you don't want it. You can't just boycott it because you don't like the guy and expect change without any repercussions.

Really, Mr. Real World? Well, in this mythical "real world" you are talking about, the suits at MSU would have been fired for treating Hoffner like they did. Last time I checked, they still have their cushy office jobs. Obviously, someone is protecting them. So who is looking out for the student-athletes that have been jerked around for the past year? Bueller? Bueller?

And Mr. Real World, yes, in collegiate athletics, you do get to "pick your boss". Athletes often determine which school to sign with based on whether or not they like the head coach and his staff and the culture of the program. And when something bad happens (Penn State anyone?), athletes often get a chance to transfer without penalty because they didn't have anything to do with the incident in the first place. That is what should have happened here, although it looks like the players are going to stick it out, which I commend them for doing.

The very idea that the players (who had absolutely nothing to do with creating this whole mess) should have to take any responsibility whatsoever in cleaning this mess up or in accommodating the incompetent suits at MSU in any effort by them to save their own arses is absolutely outrageous and wrong. Second to Hoffner (obviously), the players are also victims in this whole fiasco. The final act in this scandal had better be the termination of the AD, the President and whomever else was involved in proclaiming Hoffner guilty until proven innocent and probably ruining his public reputation forever.

End Rant.

[fightingsioux4life]

I guess I missed the part where Alabama illegally fired Saban after almost ruining his life and career and he ended up going back to Tuscaloosa to be with his family after Alabama was required by an arbitrator to give him his job back.

If your justification for comparing them is that they both said they weren't leaving and did, that is pretty weak. The background behind the situations has zero similarities. People say they aren't leaving jobs all the time and then end up going. Offers are increased, incentives are made more appealing. Saban was obvious serious originally about not going since after he turned them down the first time, Alabama offered Rich Rodriguez, who declined. Apparently Alabama decided they really wanted him and made a pretty compelling argument, Saban didn't take the job until January 4th, two weeks after he said he last said he wasn't going to Alabama. Welcome to the real world.

And Mr. Real World 2, in this mythical "real world" you live in, shouldn't there be consequences for breaking a contract you signed in good faith with someone else? If I was the owner of the Dolphins, I would have been tempted to sue the crap out of Saban for breaking his word with me and with the Dolphins organization. But that world doesn't really exist, does it? Saban prospers by being a snake and, until those MSU administrators are fired for almost ruining Hoffner's life, they also will prosper for being a snake. Welcome to the (Real) Real World (not to be confused with an album by Mr. Mister! ).

[jdub27]

Really, Mr. Real World? Well, in this mythical "real world" you are talking about, the suits at MSU would have been fired for treating Hoffner like they did. Last time I checked, they still have their cushy office jobs. Obviously, someone is protecting them. So who is looking out for the student-athletes that have been jerked around for the past year? Bueller? Bueller?

And Mr. Real World, yes, in collegiate athletics, you do get to "pick your boss". Athletes often determine which school to sign with based on whether or not they like the head coach and his staff and the culture of the program. And when something bad happens (Penn State anyone?), athletes often get a chance to transfer without penalty because they didn't have anything to do with the incident in the first place. That is what should have happened here, although it looks like the players are going to stick it out, which I commend them for doing.

The very idea that the players (who had absolutely nothing to do with creating this whole mess) should have to take any responsibility whatsoever in cleaning this mess up or in accommodating the incompetent suits at MSU in any effort by them to save their own arses is absolutely outrageous and wrong. Second to Hoffner (obviously), the players are also victims in this whole fiasco. The final act in this scandal had better be the termination of the AD, the President and whomever else was involved in proclaiming Hoffner guilty until proven innocent and probably ruining his public reputation forever.

End Rant.

One that that is pretty important is that Keen has always been the interim coach. There has never been any guarantee that he would continue to be the head coach in the future at any point.

As for the administration, once the price tag on this disaster comes out, I'd imagine there will be some changes.

And Mr. Real World 2, in this mythical "real world" you live in, shouldn't there be consequences for breaking a contract you signed in good faith with someone else? If I was the owner of the Dolphins, I would have been tempted to sue the crap out of Saban for breaking his word with me and with the Dolphins organization. But that world doesn't really exist, does it? Saban prospers by being a snake and, until those MSU administrators are fired for almost ruining Hoffner's life, they also will prosper for being a snake. Welcome to the (Real) Real World (not to be confused with an album by Mr. Mister! ).

In the "real world" unless there a penalty/clause put in a contract that prevents an employee from leaving, then no, there shouldn't be consequences for breaking it. If the Dolphins didn't put a buyout clause in Saban's contract, that is their own fault. Many companies in competitive industries require employees to sign non-compete agreements or put large buyouts in the contracts to prevent that from happening. They were free to try to sue Saban if they wanted but on what grounds? And I guess the Dolphins owner feels differently than you:

Still, Huizenga said that Saban's decision was not based on money. He said he never received an assurance from Saban that the coach would stay, and indicated that Saban never asked for a raise to remain with the Dolphins. He said he didn't feel betrayed by Saban

And you are comparing Saban to the MSU administration while darell is comparing Saban to Hoffner. Huh?

[werewolfoflondon]

Really, Mr. Real World? Well, in this mythical "real world" you are talking about, the suits at MSU would have been fired for treating Hoffner like they did. Last time I checked, they still have their cushy office jobs. Obviously, someone is protecting them. So who is looking out for the student-athletes that have been jerked around for the past year? Bueller? Bueller?

And Mr. Real World, yes, in collegiate athletics, you do get to "pick your boss". Athletes often determine which school to sign with based on whether or not they like the head coach and his staff and the culture of the program. And when something bad happens (Penn State anyone?), athletes often get a chance to transfer without penalty because they didn't have anything to do with the incident in the first place. That is what should have happened here, although it looks like the players are going to stick it out, which I commend them for doing.

The very idea that the players (who had absolutely nothing to do with creating this whole mess) should have to take any responsibility whatsoever in cleaning this mess up or in accommodating the incompetent suits at MSU in any effort by them to save their own arses is absolutely outrageous and wrong. Second to Hoffner (obviously), the players are also victims in this whole fiasco. The final act in this scandal had better be the termination of the AD, the President and whomever else was involved in proclaiming Hoffner guilty until proven innocent and probably ruining his public reputation forever.

End Rant.

How many other programs have the athletes had to suffer because of what the coaches did? Whole team/university gets probation for years and all the kids there and coming in pay the price. That is a major sticking point with me on who really gets punished. It seems that the innocent pay a heavier price than the offenders.

[fightingsioux4life]

As for the administration, once the price tag on this disaster comes out, I'd imagine there will be some changes.

And you are comparing Saban to the MSU administration while darell is comparing Saban to Hoffner. Huh?

I hope you are right about changes at MSU, but I wouldn't bet any money on it. Weasels and snakes at this level seem to get out of trouble more often than not. And no, this isn't the same as the Saban-Miami-Alabama affair; I just get tired of coaches jumping from one job to the next, while the players are supposed to remain loyal to their school forever and ever. Collegiate athletics need some major reforms.

[jdub27]

I hope you are right about changes at MSU, but I wouldn't bet any money on it. Weasels and snakes at this level seem to get out of trouble more often than not. And no, this isn't the same as the Saban-Miami-Alabama affair; I just get tired of coaches jumping from one job to the next, while the players are supposed to remain loyal to their school forever and ever. Collegiate athletics need some major reforms.

I also agree its not real fair for coaches to take off, particularly in the instances where there are sanctions coming down, but its hard to blame them for taking a different job when life changing money is offered, no different than any other profession. Not sure what the answer is, but its always why players should commit to a program/school and not a coach. It does look like they are addressing something along those lines next week though I haven't seen much detail on outside of this quote:

Emmert also said a vote will take place next week on a rule that will tack on an extra year at the end of the eligibility of a player who transfers and immediately has to sit out a season.

"You don't want to be punitive to an athlete who makes a change, obviously, but you don't want to have coaches recruiting people off other people's benches," Emmert said.

[UND92,96]

Minot St. didn't take long to hire a new coach: http://coachingsearc...-State-28223705

Interestingly, Hughes had just accepted the head coaching job at Southern Virginia last month.

[dcameron]

I talked to my nephew this morning who lives in Minot, is a Beaver booster, and is close friends with Rick Hedberg. He said during the interview, that Hoffner was specifically asked if, given the oppurtunity, he would go back to Mankato. He answered, abolutely not, he was starting new in Minot. According to my nephew it was his wife that wanted to stay in Mankato. I would guess that Hoffner had better hope to hold on to his Mankato job, because he has screwed his reputation.

[Sioux-cia]

Has no one here ever changed their mind?

[CMSioux]

We just had a very high level new hire - all i's dotted and t's crossed - guess what - the teenagers in the family changed their mind and didn't want to move to another state - we're starting over. It happens more often than you think when a family is impacted.

[ScottM]

We just had a very high level new hire - all i's dotted and t's crossed - guess what - the teenagers in the family changed their mind and didn't want to move to another state - we're starting over. It happens more often than you think when a family is impacted.

Agreed. I've know some people who have changed their minds about making a move right before their start date. In the end, Hoffner, like most coaches, will be judged by his team's performance on and off the field.

[NewUNDAlum]

We just had a very high level new hire - all i's dotted and t's crossed - guess what - the teenagers in the family changed their mind and didn't want to move to another state - we're starting over. It happens more often than you think when a family is impacted.

Not a very good comparison. A better comparison would be this: Your company just had a very high level hire. The new hire accepts the job and starts working for your company and makes significant changes. He brings in additional staff and starts changing the operations of the company. Three months into it, you show up for work and notice that he isn't at work so you check your email and find you have a message from him saying that he left your company to go to a different one.

[lawkota]

An interesting coda to this mess as Mankato has gone undefeated and will play for the D-II championship this Saturday.

 

http://www.startribune.com/sports/gophers/285725521.html