I could live with this

[ScottM]

Did Baker last long ?

Baker leaving UND had less to do with the name and logo as oppposed to some other "issues". IIRC he left a number of years after the Blackhawk logo went away. Baker's attempt to do away with Blackhawk logo, and perhaps the name(?), started during a summer break, and still sparked a huge backlash. And that had nothing to do with any prodding from the NC$$. Anybody who thinks Kelley's tenure would be shortened by this issue is not paying attention to the "politics" of higher education.

[almostheavenin2011]

I still say Alumni are a minority at Sioux Hockey Games - not sure about the other games

I still say Alumni are a minority at Sioux Hockey Games - not sure about the other games

Just like here.

[The Sicatoka]

Baker leaving UND had less to do with the name and logo as oppposed to some other "issues".

Nominated for understatement of the day.

Baker had some questionable accounting under his watch and he made some serious gaffes regarding Bismarck politics.

[The Sicatoka]

Alumni, not alumni, I don't care.

My criteria is this: Do you want the best for the program. The program. The program is everything, not just a word on a shirt.

I'll say it again: This is Spirit Lake's fight now. They will or they won't. We have to do what is best (in bad circumstances) for the program.

[Chewey]

Please tell me you are kidding. Do you really think we could sue our way into the Big Sky Conference? Do you really think we could sue teams and force them to schedule us? What law is any of this nonsense based on? The Big Sky Conference has every right to decide which teams to include or not. Unless those reasons somehow violate Civil Rights laws (laws that protect people from racial or gender discrimination), there is no way you could force them to admit us as a member. And why would we want to join a conference under those circumstances anyway?

Just keep telling yourself all this nonsense if it makes you feel better, but I think you are the one that has lost touch with reality.

Haven't been paying attention to Supreme Court decisions lately, have you? Hint: It involves the issue of speech. Where's the definitive "we won't admit UND" from the B.S. in response to the SL Tribe's letter? Something tells me they know better.

[The Sicatoka]

Haven't been paying attention to Supreme Court decisions lately, have you? Hint: It involves the issue of speech. Where's the definitive "we won't admit UND" from the B.S. in response to the SL Tribe's letter? Something tells me they know better.

The BSC will come up with a "we're happy at nine" answer and away they go. Just like Minnesota and Wisconsin will say "there's no open non-conference dates in our schedule". Either way, the outcome is the same: UND on the outside looking in.

[Chewey]

The BSC will come up with a "we're happy at nine" answer and away they go. Just like Minnesota and Wisconsin will say "there's no open non-conference dates in our schedule". Either way, the outcome is the same: UND on the outside looking in.

Wrong. They've already opened their mouths about it. The reason they're not saying anything now is that they realized they were holding shovels in a ditch and decided to throw them aside and climb out while there still some room for wiggling. With U of W and U of M and U of I and, to a degree, the B.S. would be fairly straightforward in connecting the dots just by what they've represented as a matter of public record already.

[mikejm]

^You're kidding, right?

You really believe that?

[ScottM]

The "free speech" angle is academic, to put it mildly. Moreover, if UND wanted to assert its "free speech" rights it should have done so when it originally sued the NC$$. (See, generally, estoppel and laches) It's a nice concept, but it won't pay the bills or get UND out from under the NC$$ thumb.

[Teeder11]

If that's your attitude, then I don't even want you cheering for the Sioux. You may as well sink into the woodwork now and stay there for however long the name remains in place. If and when it is retired you are then welcome to start rooting for UND's athletic teams.

Who died and made you resident bonehead?

[PhillySioux]

Who died and made you resident bonehead?

In my experience, that position is usually self-appointed.

[ScottM]

If that's your attitude, then I don't even want you cheering for the Sioux. You may as well sink into the woodwork now and stay there for however long the name remains in place. If and when it is retired you are then welcome to start rooting for UND's athletic teams.

Unlike some people, I have deeper ties to UND than just the Sioux name. I have two degrees from the school and donate money regularly, What do you have besides a sweat stained jersey or two and a poor grasp of reality? I'll cheer for UND, regardless of the teams' name, and when the name goes away, you can slither away and cheer for 'su or Minnesota, and dwell on the past.

[The Sicatoka]

Here's the key:

Dealing with the NCAA and those under their control (read: conferences who need money from the NCAA) are not rational or logical. They are arbitrary and capricious. And they can be that way because they are private entities. Until they are deemed state actors they make the rules, as goofy as they may be.

[Chewey]

If that's your attitude, then I don't even want you cheering for the Sioux. You may as well sink into the woodwork now and stay there for however long the name remains in place. If and when it is retired you are then welcome to start rooting for UND's athletic teams.

Regardless of sides - and I'm only using this quote as a sample because I fall in line with your view more -- this sort of exercise is really unproductive. I'll cheer for UND regardless of name and I've seen ScottM at a few Gopher Sioux games at the Mariucci as well as during his time at law school there. Regardless of position, ScottM, IraMurphy, Teeder11, Sicatoka, etc support the school and the programs and the nickname. DaveK obviously does too and one need not have attended UND to get cred, I think. The NCAA has not just victimized the School. The NCAA has not just flouted the laws/will of a state sovereign. The NCAA has appropriated dominion and control over a namesake that does not belong to it. It has disrespected and soiled the will of a Tribal sovereign and has aligned itself with a majority (small majority at that) of the SR Tribal Council who has denied its population a say on this issue and who has passed resolutions which transgress the SR Constitution. I'm not going to scum anyone because I have no right to criticize the motivations or sincerity or anything else of the people on here who just want to move on. I am sure they are loyal to the institution too. But, Native Americans -- those supposedly for whom the policy was designed to protect - are being treated with hostility, capriciousness, indifference, etc. by an unaccountable, low-core aggressive, multi-billion dollar, non-profit who is using its monopolistic power to ram-rod a social agenda down the throats of its members and down the throats of Native Americans. The NCAA has elected to portray the nickname and logo as being tantamount to jackboots and a swastika. The NCAA has elected to state as a matter of public record that the "Fighting Sioux" nickname is nothing more than a racial slur. There are many facets to this matter other than the school itself not the least of which is discrimination being perpetrated against Native Americans via the NCAA policy.

[planetearth]

This was a lot like a startcity prediction post, except realistic!

I knew the Nickname-At-All-Costs crowd would use this as an example of how the sanctions wouldn't hurt us at all if we keep the name. But this is pure apples and oranges. Alcorn State should in no way be considered a peer institution with the University of North Dakota. And deep down Fetch, you know that.

The NCAA sanctions are targeted at the post-season. Alcorn State isn't impacted by the sanctions simply because their teams are almost never good enough to qualify for the post-season. They are best known as the home of Steve McNair, who finished third in the Heisman Trophy balloting in 1993 and went on to a good career in the NFL with the Houston Oilers/Tennessee Titans. When is the last time their football team did anything in the post-season? Or their basketball teams? Or anything else? If you aren't good enough to qualify for NCAA post-season games, the sanctions won't matter. Such is the case with Alcorn State.

But at UND, our teams qualify for the post-season all the time. The sanctions WILL be used by our rivals against us in recruiting (especially by that glorified Ag College 75 miles down the road on I-29) once they are in place and permanent. Minnesota, Wisconsin and whoever else WILL stop scheduling us for regular season games. The reason the sanctions haven't hurt recruiting or scheduling yet is that they haven't been in place long enough (two and a half months). Also, Alcorn State hasn't made themselves a target of the NCAA by taking up legal arms and fighting these monopolists in court. It was the right thing to do, but the bad part is that it does lead to retaliation. And one of the consequences is that the NCAA will "encourage" other schools to not schedule us. And who can blame them for trying to protect themselves by not scheduling us? I certainly don't.

Alcorn State doesn't have to worry about conference affiliation because they are in an established conference and have been for some time. Their conference doesn't seem to be bothered by it, but our potential conference (the Big Sky) is bothered by it and has been consistent about that for some time. Alcorn State also is not prominent enough for anyone else to care if they are being sanctioned or not because they never win anything. It would be like Morningside getting sanctioned by the NCAA back when they were known as the Maroon Chiefs. Morningside was so insignificant at most sports that it really didn't matter to the rest of the NCC if they were being sanctioned.

The reason the Big Sky hasn't kicked us out yet is because they are waiting to see what happens on November 7th in Bismarck when the legislature meets for the special redistricting session and will take up this issue once again. But if "Clueless Al" Carlson and his cronies get their way, the following will happen, in this order:

-The Big Sky will revoke their offer of membership in their league (remember, our membership isn't official until July 1st, 2012).

-Minnesota and Wisconsin will announce they will no longer schedule us in any sport in which we don't share conference affiliation(including hockey). Other schools, pressured by the autocrats at the NCAA, will follow suit.

-Recruiting will become increasingly difficult for football and basketball because of the lack of conference affiliation. Coaches like Chris Mussman and Brian Jones will leave for better jobs elsewhere. Gene Roebuck will retire and get out while the getting is good.

-The athletic department will bleed red ink from the travel costs of being a Division I independent and the scheduling difficulties until it is determined that a move to NAIA will be required (both to escape the sanctions and to cut costs).

-The hockey teams will then be forced to leave the NCAA and petition the CCAA for membership. With our fan base, facilities, tradition and media exposure, they will welcome us with open arms. But it will represent a clear downgrade from what we enjoy today.

-While all this is happening, the Ag College will become a national power in FCS football, winning national title after national title and their basetball programs will become well-known in March in the NCAA tournament. They will gladly (and gleefully) fill the vaccum created by our implosion and destruction created by "Clueless Al" Carlson and the myopic viewpoint of the nickname-at-all-costs crowd.

That is our future as an athletic department and as an institution under NCAA sanctions Fetch. Maybe you can live with it. But most of us who love the University of North Dakota cannot.

End Rant.

[lakessioux]

Now you're sounding like one of those snobby Bison fans with the suggestion that being a former student somehow makes you more of a fan. Be careful not to hurt yourself getting down from the high horse you've placed yourself on top of. I'm quite secure with my standing as a FIGHTING SIOUX fan, having been attending football games since I was 8 years old in the fall of 1978.

Wow, hard to beleive you are 41, but still thinking like an 8 year old.

[ScottM]

Now you're sounding like one of those snobby Bison fans with the suggestion that being a former student somehow makes you more of a fan. Be careful not to hurt yourself getting down from the high horse you've placed yourself on top of. I'm quite secure with my standing as a FIGHTING SIOUX fan, having been attending football games since I was 8 years old in the fall of 1978.

The hypocrisy in your posts is often amazing. I'd put you on "Ignore", but I really appreciate the laughs. Keep up the good work, Super Dave.

[Goon]

-The hockey teams will then be forced to leave the NCAA and petition the CCAA for membership. With our fan base, facilities, tradition and media exposure, they will welcome us with open arms. But it will represent a clear downgrade from what we enjoy today.

Yeah that's not going to happen. But the rest of your rant was fine.