NCAA Meeting - On Fighting Sioux or Et Tu Brute?

[choyt3]

A caller to Jack Micheals on 740 the fan today said that there has NEVER been a meeting discussing the nickname on the Standing Rock Reservation by anyone officially representing the University of North Dakota. WTF?

[Fetch]

http://1340thefan.com/ncaa-will-penalize-north-dakota-for-use-of-sioux-mascot/

[jodcon]

http://1340thefan.com/ncaa-will-penalize-north-dakota-for-use-of-sioux-mascot/

"If you aren

[BobIwabuchiFan]

Not quite sure what you mean by this comment? Obviously hockey is not the only sport affected. Football, Women's basketball, and Women's hockey will not be able to host any home playoff games. There are at least a few schools locally (U of Minnesota, U of Wisconsin, U of Iowa) that will refuse to play us in any sport if we are on the Hostile and Abusive list. Not to mention that this could definitely affect recruiting in all sports.

I still don't see how this is going to affect our recruiting of atheletes??? Has it affected our hockey team that we don't get to have local national playoff games? I just don't see any direct evidence showing this supposed effect and even if it did how many start atheletes can you identify prior to being drafted? Seems like the few basketball players, the handfull of football players, and the multitude of hockey players that have gone pro when the programs were DIV II seem to refute your supposed gloom and doom effect on recruiting high-caliber atheletes to the University...

BobIwabuchiFan

[PhillySioux]

I still don't see how this is going to affect our recruiting of atheletes??? Has it affected our hockey team that we don't get to have local national playoff games? I just don't see any direct evidence showing this supposed effect and even if it did how many start atheletes can you identify prior to being drafted? Seems like the few basketball players, the handfull of football players, and the multitude of hockey players that have gone pro when the programs were DIV II seem to refute your supposed gloom and doom effect on recruiting high-caliber atheletes to the University...

BobIwabuchiFan

Apples and Oranges........The difference with Football is that other programs, programs we compete with for recruits CAN host playoff games. In your example all the programs are in the same boat, no program can host. Competing football schools could and should use it against UND on the recruiting trail. I dont know what the total impact will be, but to say it wont be an issue every time we go up against NDSU or SDSU or Montana for a kid is to ignore reality.

[Matt]

Apples and Oranges........The difference with Football is that other programs, programs we compete with for recruits CAN host playoff games. In your example all the programs are in the same boat, no program can host. Competing football schools could and should use it against UND on the recruiting trail. I dont know what the total impact will be, but to say it wont be an issue every time we go up against NDSU or SDSU or Montana for a kid is to ignore reality.

I suppose this is a fair point. Any football recruit would have to sign with the knowledge that he will not be playing in a home playoff game until...whenever this is settled with the NCAA. There wouldn't be a home playoff until the transition is over anyway, but there is a deadline for that at least.

[dakota fairways]

In an interview on KXMB last night, Rep RaeAnn Kelsch suggested it is time to have a statewide vote on the nickname & give the Sioux County (Standing Rock) people a voice. She is right. Bring on the referendum. If there is any hope of getting the NCAA to listen going forward, it is going to have to start with the voice of the Sioux people.

[PhillySioux]

In an interview on KXMB last night, Rep RaeAnn Kelsch suggested it is time to have a statewide vote on the nickname & give the Sioux County (Standing Rock) people a voice. She is right. Bring on the referendum. If there is any hope of getting the NCAA to listen going forward, it is going to have to start with the voice of the Sioux people.

Not sure what that would accomplish. Less than half of Standing Rock lives in ND. Perhaps the settlement should have asked for majority approval of ND resident Standing Rock, but I'm quite sure it didn't.

[IrishSiouxFan]

I suppose this is a fair point. Any football recruit would have to sign with the knowledge that he will not be playing in a home playoff game until...whenever this is settled with the NCAA. There wouldn't be a home playoff until the transition is over anyway, but there is a deadline for that at least.

Do football recruits who play at the FCS level honestly care about playing one or two playoff games at their home institution? Is it really a deal breaker? I'm sorry, but most recruits at the FCS level are just happy to have a scholarship and a place to play at. I would think that facilities and fan support would be a much bigger recruiting tool.

[PhillySioux]

Do football recruits who play at the FCS level honestly care about playing one or two playoff games at their home institution? Is it really a deal breaker? I'm sorry, but most recruits at the FCS level are just happy to have a scholarship and a place to play at. I would think that facilities and fan support would be a much bigger recruiting tool.

For an FCS level program to be successful on a national level it must recruit and sign some FBS quality kids every year. The kids that could play in the MAC or WAC or walk on at a larger program. They go to a FCS school to play more, earlier and have a chance at a National Title. The kids that are "happy to have a scholarship" go play in the NSIC not the Big Sky or the MVFC.

[Chewey]

Do football recruits who play at the FCS level honestly care about playing one or two playoff games at their home institution? Is it really a deal breaker? I'm sorry, but most recruits at the FCS level are just happy to have a scholarship and a place to play at. I would think that facilities and fan support would be a much bigger recruiting tool.

Agreed. Too much is being made of this -- way too much. If anything, that would cause a team to bind together more tightly -- A good example would be the D3 football team of Pacific Lutheran in 1999 with coach Frosty Westering. They were obviously not subject to "sanctions" but they indicated that the road actually helped with their championship run rather than hindered it. I doubt very much that the "sanctions" are going to affect recruiting that much, if at all. This same sort of thing was proffered at Illinois with the retention of the Chief. Members of the faculty were saying that recruiting would be hurt if the Chief were retained and "sanctions" imposed. Surely, potential recruits would not want to be identified with such a "racist" symbol and "insensitive" institution. Well, the faculty members themselves were interfering with recruiting and Illinois certainly has not gotten any more competitive since the Chief was ousted. I'd say they're even less competitive. They and Indiana thank their lucky stars for the god-awful Minnesota program; otherwise, they'd be at the bottom of the Big 10 -- er, Big 12. Now, there are more informal Chief dances off-campus (just off-campus), as I understand it, than there ever were on campus when the Chief was there. You got to love the strength and persistence of the voice of dissidence.

[the green team]

I kind of would like to be at a home play off game in the future. As a fan isn't that something you go into every season hoping for. I was there in 2001 at when we played Pitt St. then UC Davis, where it was so loud you couldn't talk to the person next to you. It was fun. It was electric. And I would hope fans would get to experience it again.

[Chewey]

I kind of would like to be at a home play off game in the future. As a fan isn't that something you go into every season hoping for. I was there in 2001 at when we played Pitt St. then UC Davis, where it was so loud you couldn't talk to the person next to you. It was fun. It was electric. And I would hope fans would get to experience it again.

I hear you there and I agree. When I was in Law School at UND, the Fighting Sioux finally beat the Bison after a long drought and then they beat Pittsburgh State, all at home. It is a big deal and it is something to look forward to and I am not trying to denigrate those sentiments. However, I think that losing the tradition of 80 years and the most unique nickname and logo in the country (Pro and college, in my opinion) would be far more damaging long-term than the loss of hosting playoff games for one sport. There won't be any home playoff game eligibility for a few years, as I understand it so I don't see the level of harm that some people do at this point. Even if it were to happen in the future, it could be used as an unspoken selling point, in my opinion. I don't think it would distinguish UND in a bad way, necessarily. The NCAA is not highly regarded, as I see it, across the whole spectrum. It's a necessary evil because it's so entrenched with the money and the connections and the big contracts and unless its sordid and grimy and rotten fiefdom is kicked in it's going to continue being a necessary evil. It's a scandal-ridden, tax-evading, crony back-slapping, parasitic blight on all athletics, not just college athletics, and it's going to take some politicians with backbone to right the ship. Having hearings on its tax-exempt status is a start. This is a good thing. People need to see the monster that the NCAA is and they need to demand redress from their political representatives. Settlement agreement or no settlement agreement, the NCAA is picking on UND and treating it differently than other similarly situated institutions. Its ongoing imperious, illogical and capricious executive committee fiats affect a lot more on a broader scale than UND. People should be up in arms about this obvious but constantly mutating heavy-handed and discriminatory treatment by a quasi-public entity as to all institutions -- both publicly funded and privately funded -- rather than cowering in fear in submission to that low-core aggressive conduct.

[BobIwabuchiFan]

I hear you there and I agree. When I was in Law School at UND, the Fighting Sioux finally beat the Bison after a long drought and then they beat Pittsburgh State, all at home. It is a big deal and it is something to look forward to and I am not trying to denigrate those sentiments. However, I think that losing the tradition of 80 years and the most unique nickname and logo in the country (Pro and college, in my opinion) would be far more damaging long-term than the loss of hosting playoff games for one sport. There won't be any home playoff game eligibility for a few years, as I understand it so I don't see the level of harm that some people do at this point. Even if it were to happen in the future, it could be used as an unspoken selling point, in my opinion. I don't think it would distinguish UND in a bad way, necessarily. The NCAA is not highly regarded, as I see it, across the whole spectrum. It's a necessary evil because it's so entrenched with the money and the connections and the big contracts and unless its sordid and grimy and rotten fiefdom is kicked in it's going to continue being a necessary evil. It's a scandal-ridden, tax-evading, crony back-slapping, parasitic blight on all athletics, not just college athletics, and it's going to take some politicians with backbone to right the ship. Having hearings on its tax-exempt status is a start. This is a good thing. People need to see the monster that the NCAA is and they need to demand redress from their political representatives. Settlement agreement or no settlement agreement, the NCAA is picking on UND and treating it differently than other similarly situated institutions. Its ongoing imperious, illogical and capricious executive committee fiats affect a lot more on a broader scale than UND. People should be up in arms about this obvious but constantly mutating heavy-handed and discriminatory treatment by a quasi-public entity as to all institutions -- both publicly funded and privately funded -- rather than cowering in fear in submission to that low-core aggressive conduct.

I, like you, think this whole recruiting thing is really over-rated...If we only want to recruit kids that want a home playoff game as their primary reason for choosing a school I would begin to question why these are the kids we want in the program. I want kids who care about winning, home or away, the system being run by the program, their opportunity to play as soon as possible, and the academic opportunities. We need to be a little more realistic about the caliper of atheletes were are going to recruit into football and basketball - unlike our sisters in Fargo, we realize that at most 1 or 2 kids each four years has the opportunity to maybe be a full time NFL or NBA player. I also think the atheletes realize this as well...

BobIwabuchiFan