Walsh Hall Posted March 12, 2011 Posted March 12, 2011 Ah, ok. Believe what you want. It's not an issue of a nickname being a protected class. The issue is a school, a state actor, refusing to play another school BECAUSE OF what the other school/state chooses to call its teams. I'm sure reasonable minds may differ, but there is a lawsuit to be made there. What is the cause of action? What legal basis is there requiring one team to play another? Can a school decline to play another school because they are too small? No revenue by scheduling game? The AD doesn't like the other AD? Quote
BobIwabuchiFan Posted March 12, 2011 Posted March 12, 2011 What legal impasse? The state and the NCAA, a voluntary organization, negotiated an agreement over rules approved by the NCAA membership. The legislature now has told UND not to comply. I'm sure no one at the NCAA in Indianapolis cares if the state -- and therefore UND -- chooses to take sanctions rather than comply with the agreement. As to your politics, please take the ranting to a forum where it belongs. Good to see your rebuttal was dead on with your previous comments...no substance...time for you to take your football and go home... Quote
PhillySioux Posted March 12, 2011 Posted March 12, 2011 Good to see your rebuttal was dead on with your previous comments...no substance...time for you to take your football and go home... Ummmm, SooToo is correct. Quote
darell1976 Posted March 12, 2011 Posted March 12, 2011 So I wonder how Wayne Stenjum is going to f-ck this up just like the first lawsuit. Quote
Fetch Posted March 12, 2011 Posted March 12, 2011 I don't know much about this Plains Daily publication, but they seem to be kicking the Herald's butt on coverage on this issue I agree & now will read them daily - papers are dieing a slow death & I'll be damned if I would ever pay to read the GF Hearld online either Quote
Knickball2 Posted March 12, 2011 Posted March 12, 2011 Res Judicata--Rule that a final judgment rendered by a court of competent jurisdiction on the "merits" is conclusive as to the rights of the parties and their privies, and, as to them, constitutes an absolute bar to a subsequent action involving the same claim, demand or cause of action. Definition is straight out of Black's Law Dictionary, I don't see the settlement agreement between the NCAA and the State of ND as having been rendered on the merits. Dooms dayers continue to spue Res Judicata as the bar against the second AG suit against NCAA, and further, I don't see the Federal Court as being barred from hearing the second case, I'm not so sure the second case couldn't be brought in State Court again. Legal experts in here want to set me straight? Moreover, I believe a clever attorney might couch his claims so they appear to be different than those previously brought in the original suit. Quote
Fetch Posted March 12, 2011 Posted March 12, 2011 we need some new players the next go around - I'm thinking Wrigley would be good - can he do it in his role as LG - He could lead a team of Brightest Best Quote
darell1976 Posted March 12, 2011 Posted March 12, 2011 we need some new players the next go around - I'm thinking Wrigley would be good - can he do it in his role as LG - He could lead a team of Brightest Best I agree. He did a great job in the Dru Sjoden case he is a good attorney, and I think Stenjum would just muck it up again. Quote
Knickball2 Posted March 12, 2011 Posted March 12, 2011 Yes, Drew Wrigley would likely be an improvement over Wayne Stenejem, as you might recall our AG farmed the legal work out to a Utah law firm, what was that all about... Quote
PhillySioux Posted March 12, 2011 Posted March 12, 2011 Yes, Drew Wrigley would likely be an improvement over Wayne Stenejem, as you might recall our AG farmed the legal work out to a Utah law firm, what was that all about... Mr. Wrigley has no significant civil litigation experience. If there is another lawsuit, ND would use outside counsel once again. Quote
BobIwabuchiFan Posted March 13, 2011 Posted March 13, 2011 Lets hope the stance taken by the State will entice further discussions with the NCAA on how they and ND can come to a resolution with little negative effects for both...many may not agree with me that it could possibly come to this, but I'm sure there are many lawyers on this board who know that most times that justice or fairness is very rarely the question, but rather a focus on what it takes to move on...my 2 cents... Quote
PhillySioux Posted March 13, 2011 Posted March 13, 2011 Lets hope the stance taken by the State will entice further discussions with the NCAA on how they and ND can come to a resolution with little negative effects for both...many may not agree with me that it could possibly come to this, but I'm sure there are many lawyers on this board who know that most times that justice or fairness is very rarely the question, but rather a focus on what it takes to move on...my 2 cents... I would hope that happens as well. However, there is no evidence from the NCAA's past that this should be a reasonable expectation. As of Friday, the job of recruiting for our football staff became much, much more difficult. Quote
star2city Posted March 13, 2011 Posted March 13, 2011 I would hope that happens as well. However, there is no evidence from the NCAA's past that this should be a reasonable expectation. As of Friday, the job of recruiting for our football staff became much, much more difficult. The job of recruiting was much harder without the Big Sky relative to post-season game issue. Crap, three years ago recruits wouldn't even be able to go to a post-season game because of DI eligibility. This is a much lesser hurdle than transition issues. Quote
Cratter Posted March 13, 2011 Posted March 13, 2011 The long term gains are much greater than the short term "problems." Quote
dakota fairways Posted March 13, 2011 Posted March 13, 2011 So, as long as the NCAA will not let UND host football playoff games, maybe the Sioux should re-examine FBS and the WAC. Bowl games are not under the control of the NCAA, the WAC is still desperately in need of help to survive, football would have to move back to an expanded Memorial Stadium (at least for early season games) and the Sioux could effectively thumb their noses at the PC crowd at the NCAA. Not advocatin' (still think the Big Sky will have a better reputation going forward than the WAC), just ponderin'... Quote
PhillySioux Posted March 13, 2011 Posted March 13, 2011 The long term gains are much greater than the short term "problems." Forgive me, are you referring to a potential home playoff ban as a short term problem? Quote
coach daddy Posted March 13, 2011 Posted March 13, 2011 The long term gains are much greater than the short term "problems." Its amazing to me that not allowing our athletes to play home playoff games is of no matter to people on this board. We really care more about the name/logo on the front of the uniform than whether or not our kids get a chance at home field in the playoffs? The logo means more than the athletes? Wow, that is disappointing. 1 Quote
star2city Posted March 13, 2011 Posted March 13, 2011 Prepare to be ripped............ By none other than Gene Roebuck. Quote
Knickball2 Posted March 13, 2011 Posted March 13, 2011 Let's first wait and see if and when the University of ND is denied a home playoff game, hasn't happened yet, you Doomsdayers. Quote
BobIwabuchiFan Posted March 13, 2011 Posted March 13, 2011 By none other than Gene Roebuck. Again, I don't think the atheletes are worth more than the right to vote or free speech...go ahead and ask the Standing Rock tribe and the supporters at Spirit Lake...I know we all should feel bad for these kids who are receiving full ride scholarships to earn a degree playing a sport we would all still like to play...again, lets get some perspective...at least Gene Roebuck understands it...why can't you guys who are supposed Fighting Sioux fans? Quote
iramurphy Posted March 13, 2011 Posted March 13, 2011 This board sometimes gets pretty entertaining. Having spent the weekend in GF for Sioux Hockey I was surprised at how many people there were very concerned about what this legislation does to UND. First of all, those of you who continue to call people names because others raise issues you may not have thought about, remind me of middle school student council. (Don't let anyone disagree and if they raise questions or issues shout them down). Telling DlSioux not to let the door hit him in the butt is pretty immature. I don't agree with his decision but I believe he understands the importance of the other sports and of the University as an entity What is good for hockey is good for FB, BB, VB, soccer etc. What is good for FB, BB, VB etc. is good for hockey. What is good for athletics is good for UND. The Englestad arena is good for all sports and don't forget that Ralph stated his gift was there to allow the continued success of UND hockey but also for UND athletics. The Betty Englestad Arena is another example of the vision of the Englstad family and the importance of the entire athletic dept to hockey. Some on this board don't seem to understand that. Whatever we do on this, we need to continue to work to get the Standing Rock band to vote in support of the name and then much of the problem is solved. To sit back now and think this legislation is good for UND, for hockey or for UND athletics or even think it changes anything with the NCAA is a mistake. No one knows what the NCAA will do. They won't kick us out, but I don't think they will change their previous directive. That directive would preclude us from hosting FB playoff games. What some of you neglect to mention or discusss is that would also mean our other sports can't host regional playoffs in other sports either. That could affect track, baseball, WBB, soccer, swimming, Women's hockey etc. Men's BB is not likely to host. UND has proven a good host for events in the past including Men's hockey, WBB and FB. The NCAA has recognixed that in the past. Those of you who say it would only mean we can't host FB are wrong. You are correct in that no one will be able to wear the logo or name on the uniforms for playoffs. I agree that is not an issue because THE NAME AND LOGO HAVE NEVER ONCE WON US A GAME NOR AN EVENT. EVER!!! I have no trouble understanding those who disagree and want to keep the name. I can't believe those who say the name is more important than hosting playoff games for FB or the other sports. Don't kid yourselves to think if UND FB, WBB or MBB have great success there won't be overwhelming support. This is a hockey board. If you wish to see how fast the so called "hockey is king concept" lasts, take a look at where the Gopher hockey media coverage has gone when they lose. Also don't forget where Gopher hockey coverage was when the Gopher BB team was winning. If the Gopher FB team is ever resurected you will see exactly where hockey fits in the the so called State of Hockey. I am not stating it isn't the #1 sport at UND right now. What I worrry about is where will UND hockey be in 10 years. Chewey, if you really are an attorney, check with some others and see if anyone thinks you could force U of Minnesota, U of Wisconsin, or anyone else to schedule us if they don't wish to. If that is the case, then we should sue them now to get BB, FB, VB games etc. I appreciate some of your insite, but were you sober when you said that?? By the way I would love to see you take on the SBoHE attorney. He seems to be a lot smarter and even though he is a UND supporter and name supporter his opinions are sound and they are based on his legal rather than his personal opinions. A lot of folks on this board won't like that but there are many of us who would like to keep the name and logo if it doesn't hurt UND or UND athletics. I believe the biggest threat to UND hockey is the formation of a Big Ten Hockey league. Games with the University of Minn. or Wisconsin are preferable to games with Mankato, Alaska, Duluth, Bemidji or even CC and Denver. The hockey landscape is changing and getting shut out of a Big Ten hockey conference will not be good. Some seem to think that those schools would play us because of the good crowds UND helps draw. Don't kid yourselves, The Universities are not run by the athletic director nor the hockey coaches. The University or board of Regents hire and fire and direct those they hire to do as they are told. Those decisions are going to be made by non UND people! If the sanctions remain, then we will no longer play those schools. The last time the U of Mn. president and Maturi were asked, they stated they play UND only because we are in the WCHA. If the Gophers move to a Big Ten Conf., unless they change their directive, we won't be playing them. You may think keeping the name is more important than a FB playoff, but would hurt hurt hockey too. Since Ralph gave his donation, UND hockey has been one of the top teams in the country year after year. It gives us a real advantage with recruiting. Since then, other schools are building arenas that are also attractive to recruits. The Gophers, the Badgers, the Bulldogs and now the Beavers all have new arenas. The differences are not as great as they used to be and we can't afford to lose our edge. I don't know how what will happen but the Big Ten hockey without UND is a real threat and if we don't factor that into this equation then we are not very smart. The name calling (takes a lot of courage when they aren't here to respond) against Faison or Kelly or the SBoHE does nothing to help UND or UND hockey. Doesn't matter anymore what happened in the past. They have no choice but to follow the direction of the SBoHE until told to do otherwise. If you don't understand that then i don't think I can convince you. Most of us at work answer to someone and unless you own your business you do what you are told or either quit or get fired. Kelly and Faison are no different. I believe that the present course by UND officials is the best way, (short of the Standing Rock band voting to approve the name), to get the NCAA to change the agreement. If Kelly and Faison can show that UND has been complying with the NCAA directive and agreement and are now handcuffed by the state legislature, then they have a case for the NCAA to reconsider. They might consider that if UND did everything they were asked to do then were forced by legislative action to keep the name. The sanctions would only hurt the athletes and teams who have nothing to do with the legislation, I think they would at least have to consider an appeal. In the meantime, we need to keep this from being UND hockey vs UND. If it gets that way UND and UND hockey will lose and I believe would take a long time to recover. 3 Quote
cbcsioux Posted March 13, 2011 Posted March 13, 2011 I would hope that happens as well. However, there is no evidence from the NCAA's past that this should be a reasonable expectation. As of Friday, the job of recruiting for our football staff became much, much more difficult. Will it still be hard to recruit when athletes come in for a visit and one drives thru Wahpeton, looking at a state highway sign for information and gets pulled over by a North Dakota trooper in the state called Dakota along the Bois De Sioux River.. Wonder if the town, highway patrol, or the state asked any Indians if they could use their name or image on their cars, signs, towns, rivers, schools etc It should be all or nothing. If the Sioux name goes away, then lets do away with all names related to any Indians state wide. Lets just do away with any image or names related to Indians and soon they will all be forgotten, history. Quote
PhillySioux Posted March 13, 2011 Posted March 13, 2011 Let's first wait and see if and when the University of ND is denied a home playoff game, hasn't happened yet, you Doomsdayers. And if they are denied a game (in the doomsday scenario) then what would be the proper course of action? Quote
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