Grand Forks Library

[gfhockey]

I was listening to talk radio this morning and it brought up some serious concerns of mind. Do we realy want to spend almost 21 million on a buidling that has no blue prints, diagrams or configurations yet? I think we are rushing into this real quick and shoudl maybe have a fundraising campaign also. But thats just me.

[redwing77]

I was a very close monitor of the Fargo Library project and things can get rather out of hand in these cases.

The truth is, many Fargo people (luckily less than 30% of voting residents) don't care at all about the library. Some business people tried to use the Library as a stepping stone for scamming the City of Fargo into paying at least part of private business ventures.

The truth is, libraries benefit communities. And having spent a considerable time at the Grand Forks Library, I can honestly tell you that the place is a dump. What they do there is outstanding considering that the building was a failure when it was originally built. The fact that it is structurally sound was remarkable.

Now, contrast that to the new Fargo Main branch that just opened. This building is amazing, and I'm not even talking about the aesthetics.

It is not Grand Forks' job to compete with Fargo in this matter, but there comes a time when upgrading is a necessity rather than a luxury. I'd love to see Grand Forks Public Library relocate to a location that is much easier to access and is more visible than its current location.

I agree that there should be a fundraising campaign to bolster the city's contribution but I don't think it should constitute the entirity or even majority of the project. Doubtless, with the financial situation, the chances of successfully building a nonprofit organization setup such as a public library and maintaining it would be incredible. Something not even Fargo was able to accomplish.

I say do what it takes to build a new library.

And be thankful that you don't live in Omaha. There's ridiculous taxes going on here.

[gfhockey]

I want a new library to be built. I just think the process they are going thru is rubbing me the wrong way. I think at first all the LIbrary board wanted was that the new library would be built by the new wellness center. After they sent out the questionaires and got the results and they werent very good for that location, i think that surprised them and they weren't too happy. I think they only wanted that location or keep it at the current one.

Terry Bjerke was stating that we are going to get taxed twice on this deal. One for buuidling it then whens its built our property taxes will go higher since its going to cost a lot more to run a bigger library. Also he doesnt think we shoudl tear down a fully functional buidling and suggest we remodel it. But the library board wants new everything. Ive never had any trouble in the current library and could almsot care less abotu what it looks like as long as i can get the book/dvd/movie/cd i want and have access to newspapers i dont normally recieve.

The head of the library also wants 450000 for salary increases, better benefits, and more employees. Since she came aboard, she has become a very needy person.

[siouxjoy]

I think the people of Grand Forks desperately need and deserve a library that is better than what is currently available. The statistics show that the place gets used. It is old and archaic and inefficient.

I do think it is unfortunate that the site was changed, but I don't think the survey was supposed to be the end-all way of choosing a site. Of the options given on the survey, people preferred the Leevers site. That doesn't mean that the options on the survey were the only options available to the library board (obviously). I think the campaign to locate the library at Leevers became somewhat of a north-end vs. south-end debate, anyway. "Everything goes to the south end!" "Don't forget about the north end!"

I personally didn't care for the Leevers site at all. Sure, it was in a prominent place, but how the heck to do you expect kids to get to the library on their bikes in the summertime? I don't want any kids trying to cross Washington or DeMers...that's a horrible accident in the making. Plus, there are the traffic access issues of that site that have been discussed ad nauseum.

I don't believe that masses of people will decide to shop elsewhere if the tax is increased 1%. I think the stubborn few will, but ultimately wouldn't you spend the same amount of money on gas to travel 30, 50, 70 miles away?

Just some ramblings on a cold morning.

[82SiouxGuy]

I think the people of Grand Forks desperately need and deserve a library that is better than what is currently available. The statistics show that the place gets used. It is old and archaic and inefficient.

I do think it is unfortunate that the site was changed, but I don't think the survey was supposed to be the end-all way of choosing a site. Of the options given on the survey, people preferred the Leevers site. That doesn't mean that the options on the survey were the only options available to the library board (obviously). I think the campaign to locate the library at Leevers became somewhat of a north-end vs. south-end debate, anyway. "Everything goes to the south end!" "Don't forget about the north end!"

I personally didn't care for the Leevers site at all. Sure, it was in a prominent place, but how the heck to do you expect kids to get to the library on their bikes in the summertime? I don't want any kids trying to cross Washington or DeMers...that's a horrible accident in the making. Plus, there are the traffic access issues of that site that have been discussed ad nauseum.

I don't believe that masses of people will decide to shop elsewhere if the tax is increased 1%. I think the stubborn few will, but ultimately wouldn't you spend the same amount of money on gas to travel 30, 50, 70 miles away?

Just some ramblings on a cold morning.

Fargo recently increased their sales tax to help pay for the proposed flood control. They are currently 3/4% more than Grand Forks. I believe that it will be in place for several years. I don't think it has affected business in Fargo much. So if Grand Forks increased it's sales tax 1% to pay for a library it will only be 1/4% more than Fargo and only for about 30 months (2 1/2 years). I don't think the sales tax increase will affect business in town very much.

[LeftyZL]

Fargo recently increased their sales tax to help pay for the proposed flood control. They are currently 3/4% more than Grand Forks. I believe that it will be in place for several years. I don't think it has affected business in Fargo much. So if Grand Forks increased it's sales tax 1% to pay for a library it will only be 1/4% more than Fargo and only for about 30 months (2 1/2 years). I don't think the sales tax increase will affect business in town very much.

What happens after 30 months and the City finds another reason to spend that tax money? Is it specifically stated somewhere that the tax increase will recede to the old levels?

I've never seen or heard of taxes going down in my lifetime. Anywhere.

[gfhockey]

I have a hard time believeing it will jsut go down too. How we guna pay for the bigger building? Increased snowremoval costs with mroe parking? more employees? more computers? more books? more dvds? i hear all the library charges is .50 cents to get a library card and even if you dont have .50cents u can fill out a form to get it for free.

Id personally like to see a drawing before a vote to see what 20 million will give us. Find a hard time believe 20 million is the perfect number when before all they need was 10 milliton. then they need 150 million and now they need 20 million. I will vote NO unless i see the drawing and think its worth it.

[82SiouxGuy]

What happens after 30 months and the City finds another reason to spend that tax money? Is it specifically stated somewhere that the tax increase will recede to the old levels?

I've never seen or heard of taxes going down in my lifetime. Anywhere.

It will be written right into the ordinance that the tax will end after 30 months or when $20.8 million has been collected. So it will go at least 30 months, and under normal circumstances that should collect the $20.8 million. If for some reason the projected taxes don't add up quite that fast it would continue until the $20.8 million is collected. At that point it will end. The only way the tax could continue would be to have another election and have the people approve the tax for another purpose. Neither the city council nor anyone else could continue the tax without another vote and approval of the people. And the money can't be spent on anything else without a vote of the people. If the project fell apart and they didn't build the library they would have to go to the people and get permission to spend the money in another way.

You may not believe this, but sunset clauses do happen and they do work. Even the sales tax being collected to pay for construction of the Alerus Center will end after 30 years. Only about 20 years to go on that one. And property taxes for most North Dakota residents went down last year thanks to the extra revenue from oil and other sources. The state increased their support of secondary education so that local school districts could decrease their property taxes. The average decrease in the Grand Forks area was about 12%. I don't know if the percentage was similar in all areas of the state or not.

[82SiouxGuy]

I have a hard time believeing it will jsut go down too. How we guna pay for the bigger building? Increased snowremoval costs with mroe parking? more employees? more computers? more books? more dvds? i hear all the library charges is .50 cents to get a library card and even if you dont have .50cents u can fill out a form to get it for free.

Id personally like to see a drawing before a vote to see what 20 million will give us. Find a hard time believe 20 million is the perfect number when before all they need was 10 milliton. then they need 150 million and now they need 20 million. I will vote NO unless i see the drawing and think its worth it.

The library board is proposing an increase in operating revenue in addition to the cost of building. The increase in operating will depend in part on the additional usage. They project an extra $125-140,000 for a small increase in usage up to about $250,000 extra if usage doubles. The library budget is currently a little over $1.9 million per year. The extra costs will be mainly for staff. The majority of the increase would come from the city and the rest from the county.

The projected price is based on square footage space needed for the population of the Grand Forks area and the usage of the current library. Basically they used approximately 1 square foot per person within about 30 miles (actually it works out to a little less than 1). That is about the industry average for libraries built in the last several years. The really nice libraries are closer to 2 square feet per person. The current library is about .57 square feet per person which is half of what is considered normal in the industry. That is in spite of usage being above normal for the population.

The architect has worked on more than 70 libraries. I would guess he has a pretty good handle on construction costs. He also has a pretty good idea what is needed for libraries. I would trust his instincts and his design more than the average person on the street in Grand Forks. How many libraries have any of us designed? How many of us know what is needed in a good library? How many of us would be able to tell a good design from a bad design? Why do you need a drawing, do you know anything about designing libraries? Would you know a good design from a bad design? Would you know what our local library needs to do it's job properly? The architect is also working with Widseth, Smith & Nolting, a local architecture and engineering firm. They should be able to provide the accurate local costs. So if they say they need approximately $20.8 million to accomplish what they are trying to accomplish they probably have a better handle on that number than I would ever have. I can choose to either say yes or no. Unless something happens that changes my mind, I will be saying yes. If it passes, they will have a set amount of money to spend. They will build as much as they can for that amount. If costs on something go up they will probably have to find something else to adjust. The Park District is doing that with the Wellness Center, so the library can do the same thing.

[LeftyZL]

It will be written right into the ordinance that the tax will end after 30 months or when $20.8 million has been collected. So it will go at least 30 months, and under normal circumstances that should collect the $20.8 million. If for some reason the projected taxes don't add up quite that fast it would continue until the $20.8 million is collected. At that point it will end. The only way the tax could continue would be to have another election and have the people approve the tax for another purpose. Neither the city council nor anyone else could continue the tax without another vote and approval of the people. And the money can't be spent on anything else without a vote of the people. If the project fell apart and they didn't build the library they would have to go to the people and get permission to spend the money in another way.

You may not believe this, but sunset clauses do happen and they do work. Even the sales tax being collected to pay for construction of the Alerus Center will end after 30 years. Only about 20 years to go on that one. And property taxes for most North Dakota residents went down last year thanks to the extra revenue from oil and other sources. The state increased their support of secondary education so that local school districts could decrease their property taxes. The average decrease in the Grand Forks area was about 12%. I don't know if the percentage was similar in all areas of the state or not.

I'm not saying I don't believe that the sales tax will go back to its original levels. I was just asking if it was written anywhere about the sunset clauses on the ballot. I will bet that in 30 months though, that the city will have another project that they will want to fund with the extra sales tax money generated.

I'm not sure what the point of the property tax comment was for. The oil boom in the State of ND obviously helped lower the number's. I'm all for the state giving back when it's appropriate and viable.

[82SiouxGuy]

I'm not saying I don't believe that the sales tax will go back to its original levels. I was just asking if it was written anywhere about the sunset clauses on the ballot. I will bet that in 30 months though, that the city will have another project that they will want to fund with the extra sales tax money generated.

I'm not sure what the point of the property tax comment was for. The oil boom in the State of ND obviously helped lower the number's. I'm all for the state giving back when it's appropriate and viable.

The city very well may come up with another project. But a library tax would have a sunset clause and would end, so the city would have to sell the new project to the community and the people would have to vote on it again. I believe that is what happened with the original sales tax in Grand Forks. It was voted in for a specific project (water plant maybe???). After a short time they were either done with it and the sunset clause was about to kick in or they realized that they didn't need the tax any more. They went back to the people and asked if that sales tax could be used for economic development and general city operations. The people said yes and that 1% tax is ongoing.

I brought up the property tax for 2 reasons. You said that you had never heard of taxes going down, anywhere. Other people keep talking about taxes continually going up and never going down. I wanted to point out that taxes have gone down before, they have gone down fairly significantly, that it happened right here in North Dakota and that it was very recently. So much discussion on issues like this is based on emotion and rumor. I try to make sure that people are dealing with facts so they can make informed decisions and not react to the latest rumors or misdirection.

[LeftyZL]

The city very well may come up with another project. But a library tax would have a sunset clause and would end, so the city would have to sell the new project to the community and the people would have to vote on it again. I believe that is what happened with the original sales tax in Grand Forks. It was voted in for a specific project (water plant maybe???). After a short time they were either done with it and the sunset clause was about to kick in or they realized that they didn't need the tax any more. They went back to the people and asked if that sales tax could be used for economic development and general city operations. The people said yes and that 1% tax is ongoing.

I brought up the property tax for 2 reasons. You said that you had never heard of taxes going down, anywhere. Other people keep talking about taxes continually going up and never going down. I wanted to point out that taxes have gone down before, they have gone down fairly significantly, that it happened right here in North Dakota and that it was very recently. So much discussion on issues like this is based on emotion and rumor. I try to make sure that people are dealing with facts so they can make informed decisions and not react to the latest rumors or misdirection.

I poorly worded my point on property taxes. Yes, property taxes do rise yearly most of the time, but not always. But that tax is more or less a floating tax that varies by percentage points each year. The point I was trying to make was more about the sales tax issue and that number never going down.

Yes, there may be a sunset clause. And yes, the city would have to sell the people on another project for it to get extended. I guess I'm wondering how many people vote on this issue when it comes on to the ballot? Is it like a normal political season turnout? More or less? I mean, are we talking 5,000 total votes on a tax that effects everyone? My guess would be that the people that are in favor are far more likely to vote in a special vote as opposed to the people opposed to it. People just don't seem to care that their vote matters as much anymore. Again, just my opinion.

Also, does the potential sales tax hike have any side effects to people visiting Grand Forks on the tourism side of this spectrum. I saw that Fargo's sales tax was 1%(?) higher than that of Grand Forks. Does raising the tax in Grand Forks closer to that of Fargo's hurt the city's tourism estimate's at all? I have no idea. Just thinking out loud to this computer of mine.

[82SiouxGuy]

I poorly worded my point on property taxes. Yes, property taxes do rise yearly most of the time, but not always. But that tax is more or less a floating tax that varies by percentage points each year. The point I was trying to make was more about the sales tax issue and that number never going down.

Yes, there may be a sunset clause. And yes, the city would have to sell the people on another project for it to get extended. I guess I'm wondering how many people vote on this issue when it comes on to the ballot? Is it like a normal political season turnout? More or less? I mean, are we talking 5,000 total votes on a tax that effects everyone? My guess would be that the people that are in favor are far more likely to vote in a special vote as opposed to the people opposed to it. People just don't seem to care that their vote matters as much anymore. Again, just my opinion.

Also, does the potential sales tax hike have any side effects to people visiting Grand Forks on the tourism side of this spectrum. I saw that Fargo's sales tax was 1%(?) higher than that of Grand Forks. Does raising the tax in Grand Forks closer to that of Fargo's hurt the city's tourism estimate's at all? I have no idea. Just thinking out loud to this computer of mine.

The turnout will depend a lot on 2 things, when the election is held and how active the supporters on either side of the issue will be. This will be a special election for just this issue. Normally that would mean a much smaller than normal turnout. Because of the tax issue and how influential that was on the last general election, I don't know if this will be a normal special election. My guess is that it will be a larger turnout for a normal special election (probably somewhere between 5-10,000) but not as large as a general election (which can be around 20,000 depending on the year). A library can strike a chord with a lot of people so I really don't know how many voters will turn out or which way it will go. But overall I don't think voter participation has changed significantly in North Dakota. It can vary from election to election depending on races and issues. But overall voter participation in Grand Forks and North Dakota is pretty good compared to most of the country.

I believe that Fargo's sales tax is .75% higher than Grand Forks now that they approved the tax to support flood control. I think they are at 7.5%. I don't think that the increase in Fargo will hurt their tourism or help Grand Forks. I don't think that an increase of 1% in Grand Forks will hurt Grand Forks or help Fargo, especially for a 2 1/2 year period. The differences are way too small. If Grand Forks is .25% higher than Fargo and you spent $1,000 you would save $2.50 in taxes. Canadian traffic, which makes up the bulk of Grand Forks tourism, would spend more than that on gas driving to Fargo. If the difference were higher, if Grand Forks were maybe 1% or more higher than Fargo it might make a difference. And Fargo would probably have to be much higher than Grand Forks to make a difference. The truth is I don't think that tourists worry a great deal about what the sales tax is in places. Sales taxes are usually much higher in big cities and other places that attract tourists, but it doesn't slow down the tourism in those areas. I know that I rarely pay attention to the sales tax levels when I am planning a trip. I just figure that I am going to have to pay whatever the rate is if I want to go to that place.

As far as sales taxes never seeming to go down, there are a couple of reasons for that. First, most of the sales tax is set up as perpetual. The 5% state tax and the 1% regular Grand Forks tax do not have a sunset clause as far as I know. They aren't going away. The second reason is that most sales tax with a sunset clause are for large projects so they have long timelines. The 3/4% for the Alerus Center is a 30 year tax. That is going to be around for a while. The extra 1/4% on hospitality in Grand Forks is a permanent tax to help support the Alerus Center. So most of the taxes are fairly long term, that's why it seems like they never go away.

[Cratter]

A new library? What is this the 70's? They are dying like newspapers.

Why would anyone ever need a library? To use a computer thats about all I can think of.

To do research? Every school in Grand Forks has a library: Lewis and Clark elementary to Central High School. Anyone can use the UND library student or not.

You wanna read a book, go guy it.

It losses $2,000,000 of taxpayer money every year and we complain about the Alerus Center?!

Raise everyones taxes for a small amount of people that will use it? No thanks!

The Grand Forks Wellness Center is going to be free to use like the library right?

[82SiouxGuy]

A new library? What is this the 70's? They are dying like newspapers.

Why would anyone ever need a library? To use a computer thats about all I can think of.

To do research? Every school in Grand Forks has a library: Lewis and Clark elementary to Central High School. Anyone can use the UND library student or not.

You wanna read a book, go guy it.

It losses $2,000,000 of taxpayer money every year and we complain about the Alerus Center?!

Raise everyones taxes for a small amount of people that will use it? No thanks!

The Grand Forks Wellness Center is going to be free to use like the library right?

Libraries aren't dying, there are new libraries being built all over the country. They are doing quite well. But they are changing and adapting to the new world. The library in Grand Forks averages more than 800 people every day it is open. They check out more than 2,000 things every day. My guess is that a lot larger percentage of the population uses the library on an annual basis than you think.

People need to do a lot of research that isn't school related. Not all of it can be done on the internet. Even a lot of school research can't be done on the internet. Books are still a big part of libraries But using computers is a large part of the new library too. The average person can't use the libraries in schools. Do you think they would allow someone to walk in off the street to use the library at any school in the country? And the library at UND does not supply the same type stuff that non-students need from a library. Childrens books is just one example, do you remember seeing a lot of childrens books at the Chester Fritz Library? A lot of people can't afford to buy new books all the time, and many others would rather not spend the $10 or $20 or more that it costs to buy a book and read it one time. Libraries make reading affordable for the average person. You pay your share of the taxes and you have the opportunity to use the facilities and to read a huge selection of books, magazines and newspapers as well as use any of the other items.

Libraries are part of a lifelong education program that exists in the United States. Free libraries are part of our heritage, and one of the things that makes the United States special.

If you want to go after a real money loser, go after things like the Park District, the Street Department and several other departments. They all "lose" a lot more money than the Alerus Center or the library.

[Cratter]

Libraries aren't dying, there are new libraries being built all over the country. They are doing quite well.

Just because new libraries are being built doesn't mean they are not dying. Its all about egos and trying to keep up with the Joneses. That's why Grand Forks wants a new library . No one will admit it but they want to keep up with Fargo just like building the Alerus Center. Here is another statistic for you: The California Library System saw a 54% decline in circulation between 1991 to 2001! What started to gain worldwide use during that time? The World Wide Web.

The library in Grand Forks averages more than 800 people every day it is open. They check out more than 2,000 things every day. My guess is that a lot larger percentage of the population uses the library on an annual basis than you think.

Those 800 people are 1-2% of the Grand Forks population! And almost all are the same people everyday. Pretty small percent of people using the library.

People need to do a lot of research that isn't school related. Not all of it can be done on the internet. Even a lot of school research can't be done on the internet.

Really? I don't see a lot of that. The majority of "research" is still school related.. Every book now published will be online. Numerous organizations are working on that as we speak. So yes all research "can be done on the Internet." Actually the Internet adds more to research material than books thanks to what is called "lead time."

The average person can't use the libraries in schools. Do you think they would allow someone to walk in off the street to use the library at any school in the country?

Let's try and keep this Grand Forks related since that is the topic....and yes the Chester Fritz Library, the largest in North Dakota, does allow someone to walk in off the street to use the library as much as the GF Public LIbrary does. (ID required to get a Library card). Again another reason why Grand Forks doesn't need another library.

And the library at UND does not supply the same type stuff that non-students need from a library. Childrens books is just one example, do you remember seeing a lot of childrens books at the Chester Fritz Library?

I also don't see children saying "I wish the library had more (children's) books at the GFPL. As I stated before, when a kid can read he or she will be in elementary school and can check out any number of books in their library at their elementary school in Grand Forks. Another reason not to build a new library in Grand Forks.

A lot of people can't afford to buy new books all the time, and many others would rather not spend the $10 or $20 or more that it costs to buy a book and read it one time. Libraries make reading affordable for the average person. You pay your share of the taxes and you have the opportunity to use the facilities and to read a huge selection of books, magazines and newspapers as well as use any of the other items.

And I can't afford to buy a new movie all the time and I would rather not spend twenty dollars to buy one. I wish Grand Forks would make a "library" of new movies I could rent for free. They can call it Blockbuster!

The real question is, is it the role of the government to make sure people can read certain books (cause they only have a small percent of all books available at any library) for "free"? ( I only use books in this case cause most people would agree renting noneducation movies for free shouldn't be, which I can do right now at the GF library, renting any number of fictional movies like BeerFest.)

All while costing the people of Grand Forks $2,000,000 a year!?! Isn't it funny that every person in Grand Forks would have to pay for a new library even though over half the people in Grand Forks won't use it on a regular basis? Shouldn't the people that use the library the most pay for a new one??? Makes sense to me? Charge money to rent movies/books. Charge more for a library card etc. Why stop at books and movies? What about video games? Shouldn't the library have those too? I would like to use a gym for "free" , is there an option for me too?

Libraries are part of a lifelong education program that exists in the United States. Free libraries are part of our heritage, and one of the things that makes the United States special.

Actually its apart of about 20 countries heritage and makes them "special" too. In reality the modern public use library was copied from the United Kingdom.

The main reason I hear GF wants to expand their library is room for more books? If they remove the consistently empty "study and napping" areas they instantly have room for 15% more books..... BOOM I just saved the people of Grand Forks Millions!!

[Big A HG]

I'm lucky I can read these forums, much less use a library.

'Nuff said.

[BIGSIOUX]

A new library? What is this the 70's? They are dying like newspapers.

Why would anyone ever need a library? To use a computer thats about all I can think of.

To do research? Every school in Grand Forks has a library: Lewis and Clark elementary to Central High School. Anyone can use the UND library student or not.

You wanna read a book, go guy it.

It losses $2,000,000 of taxpayer money every year and we complain about the Alerus Center?!

Raise everyones taxes for a small amount of people that will use it? No thanks!

The Grand Forks Wellness Center is going to be free to use like the library right?

Bingo.

If 10 % of the city/county used the library, the parking would have to be absurd.

We dont need to subsidize reading cause people are cheap. Most that use the library can certainly afford it. Get in a book club, they exchange books constantly.

BTW, my property taxes went up 500 dollars this year. Sure they went down last year, but this is a what have you done for me lately situation.

Im pumped for the wellness center, can i get a membership for 50 cents there?

[gfhockey]

Well now the city council want the tax for 36 months cuz they dont think we can get it the 20.8 in 30 months.

[The Whistler]

Well now the city council want the tax for 36 months cuz they dont think we can get it the 20.8 in 30 months.

Last year the new library was 10 million 1/4 percent, then it went to 15 million and finally ended at 21 million and one percent. Of course that won't be the final cost. The 9 mills the library gets has a surplus that can be tapped for the add-ons.

The book industry is changing. Borders is in danger of bankruptcy. Very soon most books won't even be published on paper, although available as a print on demand.

Mike Jacobs today said that we need meeting rooms. Don't we have them sitting empty pretty much all the time at the Alerus?

The "scientific" study the Library Board commissioned, with our money, said that 98% of the people had internet access. I'm guessing the other 2% don't want it.

The only reason why the library thing is coming up is because Fargo built a new one. I'm sick of the GF people needing my money to build up their egos.

[siouxforeverbaby]

I was going to try and stay out of this topic because I tend to get overly passionate about these topics being a future librarian. However,

The GF Public Library is sorely out of date, which is why it needs to be updated. Libraries are not dying as people are always going to need access to the World Wide Web and people to help explain how to use computers to those who do not have access to them at home. Yes, there is the Chester Fritz....that is mostly for college students however and they have priority at the computers over the general public. The Chester Fritz also has less movies as far as popular movies and not educational movies as well as books, hence the difference between an ACADEMIC library and a PUBLIC library. The library offers these things to those who can not afford Netflix or Blockbuster or fill in the blank. Libraries are also becoming more into technology which takes time, money, and yes STAFF.

The head librarian is not becoming "needy" as you say, she is doing what she does best in advocating for the library and the citizens of GF...all of them not just the children.

If you would like to chat about the future of libraries, I am more than willing to discuss it with you, just shoot me a pm.

Oh, and btw.......newspapers aren't really dying....some subscriptions are actually up for various ones across the country and around the world same with magazines subscriptions.

[siouxkid12]

I was going to try and stay out of this topic because I tend to get overly passionate about these topics being a future librarian. However,

The GF Public Library is sorely out of date, which is why it needs to be updated. Libraries are not dying as people are always going to need access to the World Wide Web and people to help explain how to use computers to those who do not have access to them at home. Yes, there is the Chester Fritz....that is mostly for college students however and they have priority at the computers over the general public. The Chester Fritz also has less movies as far as popular movies and not educational movies as well as books, hence the difference between an ACADEMIC library and a PUBLIC library. The library offers these things to those who can not afford Netflix or Blockbuster or fill in the blank. Libraries are also becoming more into technology which takes time, money, and yes STAFF.

The head librarian is not becoming "needy" as you say, she is doing what she does best in advocating for the library and the citizens of GF...all of them not just the children.

If you would like to chat about the future of libraries, I am more than willing to discuss it with you, just shoot me a pm.

Oh, and btw.......newspapers aren't really dying....some subscriptions are actually up for various ones across the country and around the world same with magazines subscriptions.

I don't think people in Grand Forks are against having a library I just think they are upset that they really didn't have a plan in place before they brought this up. Yes, GF needs a new one but what are they going to do with the old building? This is the same issue people had with the new wellness center being built. GF already has a wonderful place in Center Court Fitness and the UND wellness center along with other fitness places in town. With the way the economy is it is hard to justify raising taxes on things like this when GF already has them and when there is no plan in place.

Also, newspapers are dying. After working in the tv/newspaper business for awhile now you can see that the newspaper industry is going down faster than the titanic. The GF Herald just laid off a bunch of people. With the advancement of the internet you can read the paper online and for most papers its free, so why pay to get the paper when you can read it online for free. Not only is it free but it can get to the reader faster than waiting for it the next day. Just because some subscriptions are up that doesn't cover the fact that a lot are either merging together or completely shutting the doors.

[The Whistler]

while I don't see that we need to provide access to the net that point is already moot.

We do provide the internet in the existing building. In the future we will have more space as there are less printed materials.

Also the study the library did showed 98 percent had internet access. There is no unmet need.

There is just unmet greed.

[siouxforeverbaby]

I don't think people in Grand Forks are against having a library I just think they are upset that they really didn't have a plan in place before they brought this up. Yes, GF needs a new one but what are they going to do with the old building? This is the same issue people had with the new wellness center being built. GF already has a wonderful place in Center Court Fitness and the UND wellness center along with other fitness places in town. With the way the economy is it is hard to justify raising taxes on things like this when GF already has them and when there is no plan in place.

Also, newspapers are dying. After working in the tv/newspaper business for awhile now you can see that the newspaper industry is going down faster than the titanic. The GF Herald just laid off a bunch of people. With the advancement of the internet you can read the paper online and for most papers its free, so why pay to get the paper when you can read it online for free. Not only is it free but it can get to the reader faster than waiting for it the next day. Just because some subscriptions are up that doesn't cover the fact that a lot are either merging together or completely shutting the doors.

Yes, I know this.....but I have also read countless studies that say the exact opposite of that they are dying....we were actually just debating this in class on Friday night.

Access to the internet needs to be provided for those who can not afford or get it.....Unless Midco started delivering internet to those who can't afford it or the homeless since I left GF that is still an issue. Most job apps now require some form of online app...which you can't do if you can't get on the internet where you live and you can't afford the internet if you don't have a job. It is always an unmet need because there is always going to be a wait time.

[Cratter]

Access to the internet needs to be provided for those who can not afford or get it.....Unless Midco started delivering internet to those who can't afford it or the homeless since I left GF that is still an issue. Most job apps now require some form of online app...which you can't do if you can't get on the internet where you live and you can't afford the internet if you don't have a job. It is always an unmet need because there is always going to be a wait time.

There is no shortage of computers with internet at the GF Public Library. I live close and use the computer there quite often in the past year. Never had to wait once.

There is no serious need for a new library.