NHL 2010-2011

[redwing77]

You're right that he's no Gretzky, but then again neither was Gordie Howe. Nobody in the history of the game compares to Gretzky, and I wasn't trying to imply otherwise. My point was that Sid is the greatest player of this generation. The gap between Sid and the 2nd best player of this generation is not as vast as the gap between Gretzky and Lemieux, but he's still clearly the best. This season is making it more obvious than ever, as he is rapidly putting distance between himself and the rest of the pack.

I'd grant you that if he can carry it over multiple seasons.

One season doesn't make the generation, as it may.

[jimdahl]

You're right that he's no Gretzky, but then again neither was Gordie Howe. Nobody in the history of the game compares to Gretzky, and I wasn't trying to imply otherwise. My point was that Sid is the greatest player of this generation. The gap between Sid and the 2nd best player of this generation is not as vast as the gap between Gretzky and Lemieux, but he's still clearly the best.

It's tough to argue that Crosby has been the best player in the league in this generation when at least one other player from the same generation has won way more individual accolades (MVP votes from the players, MVP votes from the writers, first all-star team votes, and scoring titles). Crosby has some impressive team trophies, which is the ultimate goal of the sport, but there's still plenty of room for debate about what individual player has been the best.

This season is making it more obvious than ever, as he is rapidly putting distance between himself and the rest of the pack.

No doubt Crosby is the best offensive player so far this season, and if he keeps it up will likely get himself a scoring title and an MVP or two. To be called the best of this generation will require him doing that more than twice. To be compared to Gretzky would require him to pretty much own the league for the next ten years.

[Goon]

I would still take Ovechkin over Crosby any day, just like the way Alex plays the game, Cindy on the other hand is a bit of a prima Donna and I get tired of her antics and the diving all over the ice. Ovechkin just a move likable guy in my opinion...

[Goon]

Crosby is by far one of the top 3 players in the NHL. He may even be #1. But the stupid comparisons and the absolutely ridiculous amount of media fawning s making him absolutely unbearable.

I agree, you wouldn't know that there are what 30 other teams in the NHL and all they want to talk about is the two super stars... Personally I have been more impressed with the play of Tim Thomas in Boston this season as the Bruins defenders continue to hang him out to dry and he keeps on making saves and having an impressive season.

Edited December 30, 2010 by Goon

[Goon]

really Goon? Sid is as mild mannered as they come. I don't even know what you're talking abut. Maybe you're just making stuff up, I don't know... honestly I can't figure you out sometimes.

Diving up and down the ice, over embellishing and just being a pouting whiner.

[jimdahl]

Alex is the primadonna. Laying your stick down on the ice and holding your hands out/rubbing them together campfire-style as if the stick is "on fire"... really Alex? I don't see him as likeable at all. And the way he plays the game is pretty reckless if you ask me. I'll stop short of calling him cheap, but he takes a lot of stupid penalties. Sid and antics in the same sentence... really Goon? Sid is as mild mannered as they come. I don't even know what you're talking abut. Maybe you're just making stuff up, I don't know... honestly I can't figure you out sometimes.

Ovi is a showboater, and I really do understand why a lot of traditional hockey fans don't like that. I personally think it's just what Washington needed, but can't blame non-Caps fans for disliking it.

Crosby, however, is widely disparaged as a whiner and a diver. You can disagree with that reputation, but if you follow the Pens as seriously as you claim, you've clearly heard of it. My personal favorite -- when he asked the ref if they could get the fans to stop throwing hats after Ovi's playoff hat trick

[Big A HG]

Dustin Byfuglien:

42 Games Played.....16 goals, 25 assists for 41 pts.....as a defenseman.

I don't think anyone expected offensive numbers quite THAT good for Big Buff after moving to Atlanta, even if he would have stayed at forward.

[jimdahl]

I just don't like #8. Sorry Jim.

Exactly -- you simply don't like him. That is, I've thought, the best explanation for why there's such a big gap between your perception of his talent and the opinion of the players and writers who have given him 5 MVPs in as many years.

[jimdahl]

Dustin Byfuglien:

42 Games Played.....16 goals, 25 assists for 41 pts.....as a defenseman.

I don't think anyone expected offensive numbers quite THAT good for Big Buff after moving to Atlanta, even if he would have stayed at forward.

No doubt -- there's a reason Buff came up in the earlier game about picking one player to build a team around. Having their leading scorer playing at defense hasn't really hurt Atlanta in the standings, either. It'll be interesting to see what happens in coming years, because his breakout kind of feels like a fluke to me, but Dudley is sure looking like a genius for now. Buff's having an awesome season and certainly has to be drawing some attention for the Norris if he keeps it up.

[Let'sGoHawks!]

Ovi is a showboater, and I really do understand why a lot of traditional hockey fans don't like that. I personally think it's just what Washington needed, but can't blame non-Caps fans for disliking it.

Crosby, however, is widely disparaged as a whiner and a diver. You can disagree with that reputation, but if you follow the Pens as seriously as you claim, you've clearly heard of it. My personal favorite -- when he asked the ref if they could get the fans to stop throwing hats after Ovi's playoff hat trick

Watching the HBO 24/7 series, I saw even more from Crosby that supports the crybaby tag. He got so mad at the refs about a non-call, his voice got high pitched like a whiny little girl as he cussed the ref out. I simply cannot stand Crosby, after initially liking him for his skill. Over the years, I have come to really dislike this guy.

[redwing77]

Watching the HBO 24/7 series, I saw even more from Crosby that supports the crybaby tag. He got so mad at the refs about a non-call, his voice got high pitched like a whiny little girl as he cussed the ref out. I simply cannot stand Crosby, after initially liking him for his skill. Over the years, I have come to really dislike this guy.

What I wish I could see is an HBO 24/7 of Crosby before he was drafted. While he was with Shattuck or even Rimouski of the QMJHL.

Why?

Because I have to think that the league and the media has had some hand in this kind of behavior. Everywhere you turn with regards to the NHL on TV, Radio, or in ads, there's Crosby. All the commentators talk about is Crosby. Crosby this and Crosby that. He's become the face of the NHL because that's exactly what Bettman is trying to do.

And Crosby complied and played along. With that perhaps comes his attitude towards the officials and the league.

I just believe that Crosby has this attitude because the league condones it and the media is so apt towards taking his side.

What I'll say is this:

I'd love having Crosby's skill set on my team. However, he won't be the face of my team. If I could manage it, I'd love to ensure that the media didn't even get to take a still picture of him once he entered the locker room. Forget about interviews. I'd much rather have Toews, Parise, Lidstrom, or whoever taking the microphone and being the face of my team. I would not put a letter on Crosby's jersey either (I guess that goes without saying). I hate divers and Crosby has had tendencies to dive/embellish. I hate whiners and he's done that, even when he's in the right.

To be fair, though, if I had Ovechkin, I wouldn't make him the face of my team nor have him wear a letter either. And I'd not treat him any different than Crosby.

[Snake]

I can admit that he is an incredible talent, but he has not won 5 consecutive MVPs. He has won 2 (not 5) in the last 5 years. Very impressive, yes, but no need to exaggerate.

Jim mentioned both "players and writers" over the last five years, so technically he's not exaggerating...

Ovechkin won the Hart (writers) in '08 & '09 and the Lindsay (players) in '08, '09, & '10. That's five awards for MVP or MOP as judged by players and writers.

[tho0505]

Watching the HBO 24/7 series, I saw even more from Crosby that supports the crybaby tag. He got so mad at the refs about a non-call, his voice got high pitched like a whiny little girl as he cussed the ref out. I simply cannot stand Crosby, after initially liking him for his skill. Over the years, I have come to really dislike this guy.

I completely disagree. After watching that series I have more respect for him. His business like approach to hockey and his pure love for the game I could completely relate with. Who cares if he complains about a call, thats called passion. He should voice his opinion if he doesn't like a call or a player cheap shots him. He's a leader and a captain, if he didn't say anything he wouldn't being doing his job. Even though he scored a goal that still haunts me to this day, I have to respect him. As for the diving, most players embelish a little to get calls there way, not that I'm condoning that behavior. Hockey is strategy so when talented speedster like Crosby draws pens he goes in Pitts favorite.

As for Crosby (and Ovi) being advertised by the league a lot, WHY wouldn't they? He's agruably the best player in the world. Has to be top 3 at least. As a fan of the NHL they would be committing grave sin if they didn't showcase the best talent. They do advertise Toews, Kane, and others, Crosby is just the forefront.

Look at the NBA, they do it with Lebron (ESPNs love affair with him is well documented). After Brees won it last year, all you see is Brees commericals reminding us Vikings fans of THE interception.

As for the Gretzky agrument that will never end. In 10 years though, we'll all look back on Crosby and say wow. He's a Gretzky like talent. You can't compare apples to oranges people. They grew up in different stages and eras of the NHL, no one will win 5 MVP trophies in the NHL, nor in any league. No team will ever win 5 straight cups, or 4 for that matter. Two straight cups now days are almost impossible to come by.

[jimdahl]

Exactly -- you simply don't like him. That is, I've thought, the best explanation for why there's such a big gap between your perception of his talent and the opinion of the players and writers who have given him 5 MVPs in as many years.

I can admit that he is an incredible talent, but he has not won 5 consecutive MVPs. He has won 2 (not 5) in the last 5 years. Very impressive, yes, but no need to exaggerate.

Jim mentioned both "players and writers" over the last five years, so technically he's not exaggerating...

Ovechkin won the Hart (writers) in '08 & '09 and the Lindsay (players) in '08, '09, & '10. That's five awards for MVP or MOP as judged by players and writers.

Thanks Snake. Indeed, I thought by so deliberately stating "the players and writers" it was clear I was combining Pearson/Lindsay and Hart trophies, not just Harts; but in hindsight, I can see the misunderstanding. But hey, the good news for Dave is that if the season ended today, Crosby would be nearly a lock for both, bringing him within one. Not quite yet the "overwhelmingly dominant" player of the generation the Gretzky analogy implies, but certainly in the hunt for "best".

[jimdahl]

If the season ended today, Crosby would be nearly a lock for both, bringing him within one. Not quite yet the "overwhelmingly dominant" player of the generation the Gretzky analogy implies, but certainly in the hunt for "best".

Crosby is in fact "overwhelmingly" better than Ovechkin.

Wrong argument, Dave. I'm still arguing that Crosby isn't the overwhelmingly dominant player of the generation that Gretzky was. I've already said that Crosby is the best player in the league right now, and I've said he's certainly in the hunt for the best of his generation, but you can't credibly say he's overwhelmingly beyond a shadow of a doubt the best of the generation when he hasn't even been the best for the majority of his NHL career.

You seriously can't argue with 100% of the players polled. Well, I guess you could... but you would come off as ridiculously unobjective and pigheaded.

I couldn't agree more. That's exactly the argument I've been trying to make, so I'm thrilled to see you coming around to agreeing with it -- who are we to think we know better than the players and writers which players are the best? Since Crosby joined the NHL, here's what the players have voted on, in terms of best player awards for which Crosby was eligible:

Calder to Ovechkin in 2006

Pearson to Jagr in 2006

Pearson to Crosby in 2007

Pearson to Ovechkin in 2008

Pearson to Ovechkin in 2009

Lindsay to Ovechkin in 2010

Crosby sure doesn't jump out yet as the overwhelmingly dominant player of his generation the way Gretzky did (I already listed Gretzky's awards above). If he can keep up this level of play maybe he will in five or ten years, because at this point I would sure bet that he gets this year.

[Snake]

You seriously can't argue with 100% of the players polled. Well, I guess you could... but you would come off as ridiculously unobjective and pigheaded.

Everyone knows the only poll that matters is the one you fly your championship banner on!! In that regard, Sid's got it over Ovi.

Now, in all seriousness, one can formulate a critical argument against the results of this poll because they never stated it to be a "random" sample of players. Did they poll a bunch of Canadian players? How many Russian players were in their sample? Maybe they explained that further in the article, but I'm not an ESPN insider subscriber so I didn't read the rest. Maybe I'm being too "unobjective or pigheaded, I don't know..."

[jimdahl]

Everyone knows the only poll that matters is the one you fly your championship banner on!! In that regard, Sid's got it over Ovi.

Yep -- nothing cements an image of greatness like bringing home championships. Look how quickly Toews jumped up to be considered one of the league's most valuable players.

[redwing77]

Everyone knows the only poll that matters is the one you fly your championship banner on!! In that regard, Sid's got it over Ovi.

Now, in all seriousness, one can formulate a critical argument against the results of this poll because they never stated it to be a "random" sample of players. Did they poll a bunch of Canadian players? How many Russian players were in their sample? Maybe they explained that further in the article, but I'm not an ESPN insider subscriber so I didn't read the rest. Maybe I'm being too "unobjective or pigheaded, I don't know..."

I agree but....

In this argument we're talking individual awards. The Calder isn't given out to (theoretically speaking) the best rookie on the best team based upon the team's accomplishments. Same thing goes for the Pearson and the Hart trophies.

It certainly doesn't hurt, but it isn't the major factor.

I'm still with Jim on this one.

Crosby is the best player in the game at the moment but he's hardly dominant and he's not overwhelming in any category except when used in relation to media favorites and attention. You can't argue with the fact that Crosby is overwhelmingly more covetted and covered by the media compared to Ovie. In fact, I'm pretty sure that, if you could quantify media attention, Crosby would be the overwhelming favorite even when adding Ovie's coverage with the next 3 greatest players in the league.

He is the face of the "new" NHL. So, he's at least Gretzky like in that capacity, as Gretzky is arguably the face of the "old" NHL.

PR aside, Crosby is becoming the best player in the NHL and certainly one, if not the best, of his generation. But will he end up the best the NHL has seen? I don't know. He'll have to be unbelievably dominant to catch up with Gretzky. Possibly moreso than what is realistically possible thanks to how the new NHL has been structured with regards to making the game better offensively (in theory).

[jimdahl]

Only 10 minutes left until the All-Star draft. Looking forward to the schoolyard style pick-em.

I don't really expect an answer, since the draft is only 10 minutes away, but what are the odds the first two picks are anything other than Stamkos and Ovie?

[jimdahl]

Only 10 minutes left until the All-Star draft. Looking forward to the schoolyard style pick-em.

I don't really expect an answer, since the draft is only 10 minutes away, but what are the odds the first two picks are anything other than Stamkos and Ovie?

Staal takes... WARD! (goes for his buddy)

Lidstrom takes... Stamkos (no surprise there).

Green (for Staal) takes... Ovie.

[tho0505]

Only 10 minutes left until the All-Star draft. Looking forward to the schoolyard style pick-em.

I don't really expect an answer, since the draft is only 10 minutes away, but what are the odds the first two picks are anything other than Stamkos and Ovie?

Thanks for the reminder, this is awesome.

[Speez]

I could've sworn that Lindstrom won the initial puck toss.

It looked to me like they spun the pick to give the 1st. pick to Staal so he could get his goalie.

Very good idea by the NHL. It brings back memories of pick-up games.

[Big A HG]

At what point does Steven Stamkos start gaining household notoriety. He is incredible at putting the puck in the net.

[redwing77]

At what point does Steven Stamkos start gaining household notoriety. He is incredible at putting the puck in the net.

Crosby decides not to return from his latest injury.

That's about it. Bettman dares not take any of the spotlight away from his God players Ovie and Crosby.

[tho0505]

At what point does Steven Stamkos start gaining household notoriety. He is incredible at putting the puck in the net.

When ESPN decides to follow hockey more. I'm pretty sure they just ask the commissioner, "who do you want us to advertise the league to, we have some room on SC with baseball being off season." Thats a direct quote too, I heard it myself....

ESPN could care less about hockey and you can't blame them I guess. If I had a multi million dollar deal with a sport I'd advertise the heck out of it (ex NBA/NFL). It all came down to the deal with the Outdoor Network / Verses years ago after the lockout. What a terrible thing for hockey and they blame the lockout for NHL not really growing as a sport.