RD17 Posted October 21, 2003 Posted October 21, 2003 I am not placing belame on UND for starting the ball rolling, BUT I do believe that UND was not outright and upfront on its position concerning the implications of the move upon the rivalry. Roger Thomas still does not draw the line in the sand and answer the question everyone wants answered. This is complete garbage. When Kupchella came out with a position against going Division I and Roger Thomas hinted over a year ago that the rivalry might end, THEY WEREN'T BLUFFING. Anytime either of these issues were brought up by representatives from UND, Bison supporters and The Forum were quick to point the finger and cry "they're trying to hold us back". Roger Thomas has said in the last couple of weeks that they want to wait and see how the whole playoff situation plays out with NDSU's scheduling of Division I schools this year. If a 10-1 Winona teams gets in the playoffs and 9-2 NDSU gets left out, what do you think the chances are that the Sioux will be coming to Fargo next year? Quote
BisonMav Posted October 21, 2003 Posted October 21, 2003 DaveK Posted on Oct 21 2003, 02:51 AM I would rather compete for championships at the D-2 level than to be a mediocre team in D-1AA, which is what I think NDSU will be for quite a few years. That's my spin. I think they'll have a lot of 5-6 and 4-7 seasons. If in time I am proven wrong, so be it. I just happen to think that UND is making the right choice. Quote
The Sicatoka Posted October 21, 2003 Posted October 21, 2003 In 4 years a $300,000 money game ... First, four years to that is optimistic. It took Troy State closer to 10 after their transition. Second, let's call it what most coaches call it: A body bag game. Quote
BisonMav Posted October 21, 2003 Posted October 21, 2003 The Sicatoka Posted on Oct 21 2003, 08:01 AM Quote
Tuk Posted October 21, 2003 Posted October 21, 2003 You are an NDSU "spinster," but I never said that you were trying to blame UND for ending the rivalry. Saying that NDSU is no more to blame than UND is pure spin because it's simply not true. NDSU, all by itself, created the situation that jeopardized the rivalry. NDSU, all by itself, created the unequal situation under which it now expects UND to play. NDSU screwed it up, not UND. And that's the truth. This is complete garbage. When Kupchella came out with a position against going Division I and Roger Thomas hinted over a year ago that the rivalry might end, THEY WEREN'T BLUFFING. Anytime either of these issues were brought up by representatives from UND, Bison supporters and The Forum were quick to point the finger and cry "they're trying to hold us back". Roger Thomas has said in the last couple of weeks that they want to wait and see how the whole playoff situation plays out with NDSU's scheduling of Division I schools this year. If a 10-1 Winona teams gets in the playoffs and 9-2 NDSU gets left out, what do you think the chances are that the Sioux will be coming to Fargo next year? I obviously won't move the minds on this board with my position no matter how well I think I describe it, so I guess we will just have to agree to disagree on who is to blame for this mess. You think UND is pure, in the good, and has done nothing wrong, where I think there are mistakes on both sides. Thats alright. I guess I am tired of the debate over the game. I would like to see a resolution to this problem in the near future, and would like to see the game go onward or ended all together. I still support NDSU's move to DIAA and am fine with UND's position of staying in DII. I guess everyone can't agree on everything. I think it is a shame that one of the longest running rivalries in the nation will probably be ended, but I guess everything has to come to an end sometime. It was fun UND! Good luck on the future in DII. Quote
The Sicatoka Posted October 21, 2003 Posted October 21, 2003 36 to 57 scholarships the first year. So which 21 womens scholarships are to be added in the first year? As NDSU's Carr Report stated, scholarships need to be added one-for-one to remain Title IX compliant. Who's buyin' those 42 scholarships by the way? Quote
CoteauRinkRat Posted October 21, 2003 Posted October 21, 2003 So which 21 womens scholarships are to be added in the first year? As NDSU's Carr Report stated, scholarships need to be added one-for-one to remain Title IX compliant. Who's buyin' those 42 scholarships by the way? What women's programs will get the added scholarships? Quote
BisonMav Posted October 21, 2003 Posted October 21, 2003 The Sicatoka Posted on Oct 21 2003, 12:10 PM As NDSU's Carr Report stated, scholarships need to be added one-for-one to remain Title IX compliant. Who's buyin' those 42 scholarships by the way? It may not be all an addition for women's sports, could be a cut in some men's sports too. Teammakers is one of the options for additional money for the scholarships. The presentations that I have seen look promising to raise the funds. Why do you think the money won't be there? Quote
jimdahl Posted October 21, 2003 Posted October 21, 2003 I obviously won't move the minds on this board with my position no matter how well I think I describe it, so I guess we will just have to agree to disagree on who is to blame for this mess.The catalyst for change IS NDSU choosing to reclassify. While discontinuing the matchup requires a choice by UND, I suspect most fans want UND to do what's best for itself -- that probably means maximizing playoff chances rather than continuing the rivalry. You think UND is pure, in the good, and has done nothing wrong, where I think there are mistakes on both sides. While I can only speak for myself, quite a few of us actually wish UND would study reclassification. Depending on the results of the study, that could lead to maintaining the rivalry. It seems UND is taking a wait-and-see attitude on that, as well. I would still predict that any interruption will be only a hiatus rather than an end to the rivalry -- the schools are too similar to be in different division over the long term. However, given the current state, I do think UND should do what's best for itself. Quote
ScottM Posted October 21, 2003 Posted October 21, 2003 If UND, with a roughly 250,000 person lead at the gates, doesn't believe it is fiscally wise, yes, I'm going to ask about money. Why don't I think the money will be there? That's not the question. Why don't they have the money in hand for the trip? "Look promising" just isn't the same as money already in hand. Well, I suppose Chaps would just go "hat in hand" to Bismarck if those financial projections don't pan out. --"Money? We don't need no stinkin' money!" -shameless ripoff of "Blazing Saddles" Afterall, getting $300,000 in FB money to be a punching bag for Nebraska or Minnesota, which is also a big "maybe" on both counts, as I believe Minnie only pays around $225k or maybe $250k, would offset The presumably-defunct Rivalry. This presumes that all 12000 tickets, or whatever would sell out the FloodDome for a UND game, sold for less than $25. Of course, the "Accounting with Beer and Magical Excel Formulas" book that Chaps and the rest of the Stream Yellow crowd have been reading doesn't consider the true costs of half-full houses at the FloodDome watching the Oregon State Institute of Hair Design and Nail Painting some fine autumn afternoon. Quote
PCM Posted October 21, 2003 Author Posted October 21, 2003 ...watching the Oregon State Institute of Hair Design and Nail Painting some fine autumn afternoon. Are you serious? The OSIoHDaNP Preening Peacocks are going to play in the Fargo Dome? Heck, I'd pay money to watch that one! Quote
CoteauRinkRat Posted October 21, 2003 Posted October 21, 2003 Are you serious? The OSIoHDaNP Preening Peacocks are going to play in the Fargo Dome? Heck, I'd pay money to watch that one! Aren't they the defending champs of the Backdoor Billy Conference? Quote
BisonMav Posted October 21, 2003 Posted October 21, 2003 The Sicatoka Posted: Oct 21 2003, 12:55 PM (1) a comparable athletic budget last year (UND $5.8 MM in 2002 vs NDSU $5.1 MM in 2002) What percent is for hockey and what percent is for football? Does UND have a Teammakers type group that supports athletics? Just want to see what we are comparing? Quote
CoteauRinkRat Posted October 21, 2003 Posted October 21, 2003 Yes, that would be the Fighting Sioux Club Quote
BisonMav Posted October 21, 2003 Posted October 21, 2003 UND's budget with hockey: Kupchella: North Dakota's current annual athletics budget is $5.8 million ($1.8 million of which is for our Division I hockey program); I found this article from a while back. That means 4 million for the other UND sports. From a Kolpack article in April it looks like Troy States budget is close to NDSU's this year. Troy State is a DI not I-AA in football. Quote
airmail Posted October 21, 2003 Posted October 21, 2003 Are you serious? The OSIoHDaNP Preening Peacocks are going to play in the Fargo Dome? Heck, I'd pay money to watch that one! Hell... I'd pay $27.50 to see it! Quote
airmail Posted October 21, 2003 Posted October 21, 2003 I am not sure who you talked to Airmail, but everyone I know is for it. Quote
PCM Posted October 21, 2003 Author Posted October 21, 2003 (edited) Hell... I'd pay $27.50 to see it! Do I hear $27.55? Edit: Wow, what math skills! Now everyone will know I didn't attend UND. (Sorry, Sicatoka, I had to do it.) Edited October 21, 2003 by PCM Quote
ScottM Posted October 21, 2003 Posted October 21, 2003 You're right, though... it all comes down to the almighty dollar. If NDSU can get the money, all is well in bisonville. Remember, these are the same, cheap tightasses who complained when UND upped some tickets to $27 and change for the last Nickel game. (It costs about $36 a ticket for a decent seat, face, around here for most Minnesota football games, $100 or more if you go to a scalper for big games. So 'SU D1 pricing is probably go to be higher than $5 or so per ticket, unless you scrimp on the programs.) I can't imagine Chaps & Co. have actually polled people in their target market to see what their max pricing might be. Then again, if they had, they'd probably take another few shots, play with Excel and crunch the numbers to their liking. Quote
The Sicatoka Posted October 21, 2003 Posted October 21, 2003 That would be $27.55 All this unsavory talk of money, pricing, and finances: Fellows, be serious now. You talk as if collegiate athletics need be concerned about those things. That would only be true if collegiate athletics were to be run as a business, having to worry about such unsavory things as "red ink" or fiscal self-responsibilty for their annual resources. Our esteemed NDSU collegue and poster in this thread assured us that my thinking of such matters, collegiate athletics as a business that must pay its own way, was foolishness. Quote
The Sicatoka Posted October 21, 2003 Posted October 21, 2003 What percent is for hockey and what percent is for football? Does UND have a Teammakers type group that supports athletics? Consolidated answers: $1.8 MM of the $5.8 MM was for hockey. Based on an NCAA report I read, in 2001, UND spent between $472k and $645k on football. The Fighting Sioux Club is the fundraising arm of UND Athletics, similar to NDSU TeamMakers. Quote
Smoggy Posted October 22, 2003 Posted October 22, 2003 In 4 years a $300,000 money game against a Big 10, Big 12 type team would easily replace the rivalry in terms of $$$$$. What could be scary for NDSU is if teams like the Golden Chokers are no longer able to play a 1-AA team. Right now the stars and super-conferences are aligning, the BCS is coming up for renewal and D2 is supposedly looking to count only D2 games, then what is stopping these super-conferences and/or the NCAA from banning the "automatic win?" This is only a hypothetical question at this time, but it has some merit. With the ACC at 12 teams (now) along with the SEC and Big 12, the Big 10 1/2 will add 1 1/2 teams and change its name and the PAC 10 will be forced to add 2 teams. These conferences already control the BCS and under no circumstances do they want a tourney. It's hard enough for any other conference to make any money, so they'll just want a tourney instead. I think we're looking at a total college football reclassification. The supers will be DI, the mid-majors will then become 1AA. This leaves the current 1AA somewhere in between IAA and DII. And also out of the running for big paychecks. This rant is, of course, only one man's opinion of the soon to be future. I just don't think you can count on the money for games that aren't booked. Quote
Goon Posted October 22, 2003 Posted October 22, 2003 Next year and the year after the Bison won't have the kind of advantage over the Sue that Montana had over the Bison. By the way its Sioux not Sue. Second blame your athletic departmnet for this assinine move, everyone seems to think UND is being non-flexible by maybe not playing this game again. I would say the same thing Eddy Schultz said. Why should UND be forced to keep the game going, were not the ones that need the game NDSU needs the game? Second how may Divison 1-AA teams did NDSU schedule during the last 10 years. Quote
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