Is There Another Win on the Schedule?

[UND92,96]

Which one of these is lighting the basketball world on fire...?

and what makes you think they could do any better job at UND...?

I figured somebody would misconstrue that post. To answer the questions--none of them, and I don't. I was just curious after reading through the lengthy thread from four years ago. Maybe I was the only one, or this wasn't the right thread to post the info. Sorry.

[teamsioux]

Not sure whether this is of any interest to anyone, but the following is what became of the other three finalists for the UND job ultimately given to Brian Jones:

Tom Brown--still associate head coach at Winona State.

Randall Herbst--head coach at the University of Mary, after stops at Florida Southern and UNO.

Steve Weemer--still a high school coach in Illinois.

Maybe none of those candidates sound that good....but we would probably go winless against those college teams. I will bite my tongue on the HS team.

The thing that had to bother me the most is getting outrebounded so bad.....I can handle getting beat by 30 points by the established DI teams while in the transition, but the rebounding was embarrassing,especially to a NAIA team. There is no excuse for getting outworked like that. 640 might be a large crowd in February if that part keeps up.

[coachdags]

I figured somebody would misconstrue that post. To answer the questions--none of them, and I don't. I was just curious after reading through the lengthy thread from four years ago. Maybe I was the only one, or this wasn't the right thread to post the info. Sorry.

I apologize, if that came off as harsh, it was not intended that way....

My point is that it will be extremely hard for anyone to come in to UND and catch lightning in a bottle. Maybe one of the most promising Coaches to do that in a similar situation was Greg McDermott. He was able to win at Wayne State (D2-Independent), then back at his alma mater in UNI (took him 5 years), and is now struggling in the Big 12 at ISU.

Those kind of Coaches do not come along very often, and we will miss on some, before UND hit's on one. Maybe Brian Jones is it...? I think we should at least give a guy 5 years before we judge his work as a success or it's time that we need to move on.

This D1 one thing is going be a success (imo) only if we can find a decent conference to compete in, no matter who is Coaching the boys.

[Sodbuster]

At the time, he didn't have the NCAA DI coaching credentials that were expected. He does now: Craig Smith

As far as a coaching change, can't see how that would impact a conference decision like a bison poster implied. It's not like we're going to get in the MVC. Right now, UND men's BB can't go much lower. Mayville State was 4-5 going into the game.

Jones seems like a nice guy, but with the interest in the program at almost an all-time low, sometimes changes have to be made just to get the public's respect again.

Mayville has played SDSU, Colorado State, and Sioux Falls amongst other this year........not like a soft schedule at all. Nobody knows how good they really are. Also, this is their second win over UND in the last (I think) 5 years.

[Sodbuster]

So stay the course, everything is duckies and bunnies? Ho-hum, it's a transition and it's hard. This was Mayville ___ing state.

And as a Mayville State grad and a fervent UND fan......good for us/them!

[sioux2013]

coachdags, thank you. Someone semi positive on here. Everyone just needs to relax and let these players and coaches sort thru all of this. In time this program will be fine with these coaches and players. Its a starting point. The coaches can't shoot the shots nor make good passes nor make sure no one is injured. There is talent and when the players start playing close to 40 minutes and not 24 minutes per game they will be fine. In the next 2-3 years this team will be very good and competitive. UND will never be North Carolina or Duke but could be a very good mid major team. Everyone needs to support this team and that means attending the games.

[oldskool]

coachdags, thank you. Someone semi positive on here. Everyone just needs to relax and let these players and coaches sort thru all of this. In time this program will be fine with these coaches and players. Its a starting point. The coaches can't shoot the shots nor make good passes nor make sure no one is injured. There is talent and when the players start playing close to 40 minutes and not 24 minutes per game they will be fine. In the next 2-3 years this team will be very good and competitive. UND will never be North Carolina or Duke but could be a very good mid major team. Everyone needs to support this team and that means attending the games.

This team does need support. However be realistic and understand that change would be good for the team. With that being said, it's clear the offense does not suit this team well, maybe try a faster tempo on both ends of the floor. I will say a coach must stand by what he belives in that will make his team win.

[GeauxSioux]

coachdags, thank you. Someone semi positive on here. Everyone just needs to relax and let these players and coaches sort thru all of this. In time this program will be fine with these coaches and players. Its a starting point. The coaches can't shoot the shots nor make good passes nor make sure no one is injured. There is talent and when the players start playing close to 40 minutes and not 24 minutes per game they will be fine. In the next 2-3 years this team will be very good and competitive. UND will never be North Carolina or Duke but could be a very good mid major team. Everyone needs to support this team and that means attending the games.

I'll let the AD sort through all of this.

[sioux2013]

^^^^^ How many games have you been to this year?

[GeauxSioux]

^^^^^ How many games have you been to this year?

I have attended 0 games. I live in Florida. I do support UND Athletics, specifically BB, financially.

As I said, I'll let the AD sort things out.

[sioux2013]

Since you have not seen the players or even have a clue as to who they are and how hard they have worked give them a chance and dont influence the AD with your money. Which from your last few posts is what you are probably trying to do.

[GeauxSioux]

Since you have not seen the players or even have a clue as to who they are and how hard they have worked give them a chance and dont influence the AD with your money. Which from your last few posts is what you are probably trying to do.

I think you are reading waaaaay too much into my posts. I'm merely stating that this isn't going to get solved on a sports forum board. The Athletic Director is the one that needs to make this call. The only way I could be influencing him is if he reads this thread and thinks that I'm worth listening to. I have not contacted the AD directly. I'll let him do his job. BTW, my contributions to UND athletics are not shaped in anyway by who the coach is. I support the U.

I doubt very highly if Faison frequents this board for ideas on how to run his department.

As far as the players are concerned, I don't believe that I mentioned them in any of my posts.

[sioux2013]

Thank you. Just give them all time. They are all good quality players and extremely nice kids that just need experience.

[star2city]

Thank you. Just give them all time. They are all good quality players and extremely nice kids that just need experience.

My issues with Jones are four-fold at this point:

Why no bona-fide point guard?

Why all the dribbling in a Princeton offense? Dribbling and Princeton are not mutually compatible.

Why was this redshirt class hyped, even in pre-season. Jones let an expection of a 15 win season seem possible.

Why the seeming lack of half-time or game-time adjustments?

I've preached patience for years now. I'd be very satisfied with promising at this point. Just don't see it right now.

[UND92,96]

I don't know whether this was linked earlier in this thread or not, but this Wayne Nelson blog more or less echoes my own feelings (scroll down to "Rough, rough night"): http://www.areavoices.com/waynenelson/

[sioux2013]

Did not realize until reading that article that Benter did not play in this last game. Thats a main reason they were out-rebounded so bad. Benter right now is the only post player they have and a very nice one, Mike is not playing much and Mitch has yet to play this year due to injuries. UND has not played one game yet with what I would guess to be their starting five. Mitchell,Bledsoe, Benter are probably still not 100%. Hopefully before long we will see everyone healthy and able to play and then lets see what happens.

[coach daddy]

Somewhere between fgosioux and sioux2013 there has to be a happy medium.

While its obvious that this years edition of UND bball isn't very good, I don't think I want anyone fired at the end of the year. Coach Jones deserves to see 5 years, especially when nothing is resolved regarding the nickname or a conference.

I also do not believe that this team is rich in talent and they'll all be waaaaaaaaay better in a couple years. They are who they are but we didn't win many recruiting battles to land this group of guys. If we are a lot better in 2 or 3 years its because we've recruited over this bunch.

[UND92,96]

Somewhere between fgosioux and sioux2013 there has to be a happy medium.

While its obvious that this years edition of UND bball isn't very good, I don't think I want anyone fired at the end of the year. Coach Jones deserves to see 5 years, especially when nothing is resolved regarding the nickname or a conference.

I also do not believe that this team is rich in talent and they'll all be waaaaaaaaay better in a couple years. They are who they are but we didn't win many recruiting battles to land this group of guys. If we are a lot better in 2 or 3 years its because we've recruited over this bunch.

Just curious--so in your opinion Jones is back next year regardless of the team's record this year?

[coachdags]

I get accused alot for sticking up for the Coaching staffs on message boards, and it is probably so. If a Coach does it the "Right Way", teaches, keeps kids in class, helps control and handle off the court/field issues, I know success is measured by Wins and Losses and as long as we win more then we lose I'm happy

It's Great to compete for Championships, but now that we are D1 those are going to be alot more difficult to obtain.

What I do not understand is that it is alright for UND to beat a higher level opponent, to achieve a victory or a win when we are not suppose to, but it is never alright for this to happen to us...? Now if we were losing to the Sioux Falls College's and Mayville State's of the world on a regular basis, then I would say we need a change. This however is not happening, we may not be a dominate as we were at times, but we still field competetive teams. ( with a bad loss every once in a while)

This years MBB teams is struggling because of injuries and some new personal and trying to compete at a higher level on a regular basis. I'm hopiing the Mayville State game was just a one time thing that seems to happen in the world of athletics......or yes, supposed to happen to everyone except our Sioux...?

[bincitysioux]

I get acused alot for sticking up for the Coaching staffs on message boards, and it is probably so. If a Coach does it the "Right Way", teaches, keeps kids in class, helps control and handle off the court/field issues, I know success is measured by Wins and Losses and as long as we win more then we lose I'm happy

It's Great to compete for Championships, but now that we are D1 those are going to be alot more difficult to obtain.

What I do not understand is that it is alright for UND to beat a higher level opponent, to achieve a victory or a win when we are not suppose to, but it is never alright for this to happen to us...? Now if we were losing to the Sioux Falls College's and Mayville State's of the world on a regular basis, then I would say we need a change. This however is not happening, we may not be a dominate as we were at times, but we still field competetive teams. ( with a bad loss every once in a while)

This years MBB teams is struggling because of injuries and some new personal and trying to compete at a higher level on a regular basis. I'm hopiing the Mayville State game was just a one time thing that seems to happen in the world of athletics......or yes, supposed to happen to everyone except our Sioux...?

Damn you for interjecting some common-sense...............

You make excellent points. I think the frustration comes from the fact that UND basketball has been on a steady regression since Beasley left, going on what?............7 years now, and hasn't really shown many signs of turning around, despite a new coaching staff (which as we all know is supposed turn negative things around in an instant...... ). Personally, my biggest problem is the pro-longed (multiple season) struggles against what should be inferior opponents. Every game against an NAIA opponent last season was nail-biter, and they shouldn't be at a school like North Dakota, regardless of if we are top flight DII, bottom-end NCC team, or transitional DI team.

But after 48 hours of grieving the Mayville game, I have put it behind me and am confident the team will put in a good showing against IP-Fort Wayne.

[sioux2013]

Very good points. Another few points I would like to add. Having no conference makes it difficult to bring in top recruits. Players want to play in March madness and being on probation these players are not eligible for another 3 years. The coaches I believe have done a nice job getting quality players in terms of their high school acccomplishments. Its always a crap shoot what kind of players they become as D1 college players. It would be interesting to know what percentage of cant miss players turn into busts. You see it in the pros all the time. The same goes for college. If only a couple of the recruits each year turn into very good D1 players you will have something in 4-5 years that will become a winning program. In a couple of years the coaches will have more to offer the players in terms of what I mentioned above. Bad losses happen to every program during the year. Go Sioux

[star2city]

Bad losses happen to every program during the year. Go Sioux

Good wins also happen, except in this program it seems. If you make an argument about Mayville State being a bad loss, please show me the flip side of that argument: a good win.

[UND92,96]

Good wins also happen, except in this program it seems. If you make an argument about Mayville State being a bad loss, please show me the flip side of that argument: a good win.

I don't believe Jones has had any wins against programs clearly more advantaged than UND in terms of resources, although in fairness at the dII level we rarely ever played such teams. In any event, the following are probably the best wins during Jones' tenure:

2006-07 @ St. Cloud St.

2007-08 @ USD in NCC tournament

2008-09 @ UM-Kansas City (lone win vs. non-transitional dI program thus far)

Of course, I wouldn't classify any of these wins as even close to being on par with what Mayville did the other night in terms of beating a team despite having only a fraction of the resources.

At this point, my only expecations for this team are to beat St. Olaf, and to split the four games with Houston Baptist and NJ Tech, both of which currently have lower RPI's than UND. I don't think that's too much to expect.

[coach daddy]

Just curious--so in your opinion Jones is back next year regardless of the team's record this year?

I would say, yes. No conference affiliation on the horizon, no playoff scenario that can be achieved. Like Coach Dags says, take wins/losses out of the equation, Coach Jones is working hard and the other stuff very well. Kids aren't in trouble in the community, no ones flunking out of school, etc.

There will come a time when he has to put a MUCH better team on the floor, just not sure its now and don't think a real high caliber coach would be that interested in UND when you consider the hill we are trying to climb for at least a couple more years.

[UND92,96]

I would say, yes. No conference affiliation on the horizon, no playoff scenario that can be achieved. Like Coach Dags says, take wins/losses out of the equation, Coach Jones is working hard and the other stuff very well. Kids aren't in trouble in the community, no ones flunking out of school, etc.

There will come a time when he has to put a MUCH better team on the floor, just not sure its now and don't think a real high caliber coach would be that interested in UND when you consider the hill we are trying to climb for at least a couple more years.

I can respect that opinion, although I will say that a coaching search after this season would likely yield a considerably better group of candidates than it did four years ago. We're down to two more years of the transition, and in all likelihood we will be in the Summit in another two or three years, and that's a lot better than what we were facing in 2006 (although the dI move hadn't been officially announced until shortly after Jones was hired).

I can accept going winless against tournament-eligible teams. I don't necessarily like it, but I can accept it. But when a team has as few winnable games as this team does, I have a much harder time accepting anything less than 100% effort against teams like Mayville. And if we can't win a couple of games against teams that are ranked as low or lower than ourselves, i.e. NJ Tech and Houston Baptist, it will speak volumes about where we are, and whether there's any hope for marked improvement next year minus Bledsoe and Mertens.

Wins and losses aren't everything, but neither are they completely meaningless at the college level either, even during a transition with no real conference title to compete for. And there's also the issue of rapidly falling attendance, and whether the Jones style of basketball can or will result in something people actually want to watch.