dagies Posted March 10, 2002 Share Posted March 10, 2002 I made this post on another thread here but decided to start a new one. First off, please stay here a while. Feel free to post if you wish. Like any fans in our own "house" we like to bitch and moan about stuff. Just like you do in yours. I'm reading other boards and I see lots of comments about this board. You all seem to come away "appalled" or some other such adjective. Why is that? Yeah, a few negative emotions on this board. Nothing different that what happened on your board after the gopher loss to the Sioux in January. And we here have no different to Hauser than you guys were at the time, and have been to him most of the last 2 years. And I'm reading several posts elsewhere about the Hauser incident. First off, I didn't see it so I am asking any gopher fan who did what their impression of it was. If it was as stated, it was classless, yet most of you gopher fans excuse it because of his "new" attitude, or because everybody from "other" teams was down on him. But I ask you how you would have reacted had Kollar done that to your bench if he won the game last night. All I am saying is, I think the reactions from Sioux fans in the loss are not much different than gopher fans in losing situations. Yet you carry your righteous indignation to the masses. Welcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P32 Posted March 10, 2002 Share Posted March 10, 2002 What I don't understand is how you fans make out the gophers to be the most vile evil guys in the world and you would rather die than cheer for them. I just don't buy that any team is a bunch of thugs except maybe Wisconsin and I've cheered for the sioux as a gopher fan even after all the torment they have put me through. The fact is that the gophers for the first time in a long time are actually better than the sioux. I think next year the teams will be really close in terms of talent. In response to the Hauser thing. I'm going to take a wild guess and say that it was in response to something the sioux said to him. Does anyone remember the antics of Sertich after they beat the gophs in the playoffs? Well, I understand why he did it and I don't hate him or his team because of it. I think you guys need to stop making yourselves out to victims here, that's all. See you next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goon Posted March 10, 2002 Share Posted March 10, 2002 What I don't understand is how you fans make out the gophers to be the most vile evil guys in the world and you would rather die than cheer for them. I just don't buy that any team is a bunch of thugs except maybe Wisconsin and I've cheered for the sioux as a gopher fan even after all the torment they have put me through. The fact is that the gophers for the first time in a long time are actually better than the sioux. I think next year the teams will be really close in terms of talent. In response to the Hauser thing. I'm going to take a wild guess and say that it was in response to something the sioux said to him. Does anyone remember the antics of Sertich after they beat the gophs in the playoffs? Well, I understand why he did it and I don't hate him or his team because of it. I think you guys need to stop making yourselves out to victims here, that's all. See you next year. I doubt Blaiser said anything to Hauser, its not his style. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sprig Posted March 10, 2002 Share Posted March 10, 2002 What I don't understand is how you fans make out the gophers to be the most vile evil guys in the world and you would rather die than cheer for them. I think you guys need to stop making yourselves out to victims here, that's all. See you next year. Taunting is pretty much a victimless crime. Don't know that I'd rather die than cheer for the gophs, but I'd take a chance at getting real sick. You'll just have to live with the fact that the gophs are not second in line for very many Sioux fans, least not from my era. Was always a Wisco fan second, but that was when the Sioux could equal wisco's thugery, and it wasn't against the rules (such as the teams of the early 80's). Now, every team has those that take advantage of the rules' protection, and even the wussiest can pull crap without retaliation. So much for the kinder, gentler version on NCAA hockey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottM Posted March 10, 2002 Share Posted March 10, 2002 I don't really mind Minnesota fans, except the "unhappy" ones, on the Board, but we should really make a concerted effort to keep Jan Fans off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goon Posted March 11, 2002 Share Posted March 11, 2002 I don't really mind Minnesota fans, except the "unhappy" ones, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YaneA Posted March 11, 2002 Share Posted March 11, 2002 Man, I just can't do it. I can't cheer for the Gophers. When they scored their third goal Saturday night and they celebrated wildly, I actually threw my shoe at the TV. Okay, so it was only a bunny slipper, but still...That's the kind of feeling the Gophers engender in me. I think they are arrogant and they always have been, even when they couldn't back it up with skating and scoring prowess. So, no, I won't be cheering for them in the NCAAs. If the Gophs are in the title game against a non-WCHA team, I'll be as neutral as Switzerland. And if they happen to win their first title in more than 20 years, think of the year's worth of smugness the rest of us will have to endure. So who would I like to see win the title? Team ABG. Anyone But the Gophers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jk Posted March 11, 2002 Share Posted March 11, 2002 A BU fan (might have been King) described cheering for BC during the 1998 NCAA championship game (I paraphrase): I was pulling for BC to defend the conference's (Hockey East)honor, but when Langfeld scored I was surprised that I was the first one out of my seat to celebrate. (Michigan's Josh Langfeld scored the OT game-winner.) You pull for your conference, but it's hard to have too much affection for your big rival. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyeagle Posted March 11, 2002 Share Posted March 11, 2002 I'm now over here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jk Posted March 11, 2002 Share Posted March 11, 2002 Ahh, Greyeagle, there you go ruining all the ill will. Thanks for your input. The downside for you is you now (or at least next year) have another spot to check on the internet. Good luck, but you might not need too much of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mksioux Posted March 11, 2002 Share Posted March 11, 2002 Both teams have had classless players in their programs throughout the years. (I don't think any honest Sioux fan would argue that Jason Blake was a model for class) Hauser's actions alone do not make the Gopher program classless (although they do reflect poorly on him personally). Having said that, however, I think Sioux fans are particularly rubbed the wrong way by the Gopher fans, which leads to a general hatred for the Gopher program. Gopher fans like to think that their gloating after Gopher victories is okay because Sioux fans allegedly gloat when the Sioux are winning. I'm not arguing that Sioux fans do not gloat, but I suggest that Gophers fans are generally much worse. I will write one example in support of my argument. I was at the January game at Mariucci won by the Sioux. I saw many Sioux fans there and all were quite happy after the game. However, I did not see one instance of gloating or disrespect to Gopher fans. I did not even see one Sioux fan say ANYTHING to any Gopher fan in the building. I was also at the Saturday game at Englestad in February. As I'm sure many of the readers on this site are aware, the Gopher fans in attendance were quite vocal after the game. I have vivid memories such as the drunk guy repeatedly shouting at the top of his lungs "We Own This Place!!" and the guys in the Daktronics suite dancing and waving their brooms. Now I'm not saying there is anything inherently wrong with this behavior, but a Gopher fan shouldn't be surpirsed if behavior such as this fuels a growing resentment on the part of Sioux fans. Furthermore, let's not buy into the moral equivalency argument and just assume that Sioux fans do the same thing after Sioux victories at Mariucci. I've been present for both situations, and believe me, there is a difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottM Posted March 12, 2002 Share Posted March 12, 2002 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goon Posted March 12, 2002 Share Posted March 12, 2002 scott your so right when Commie was on the ice people feared him and were watching for him at all times. I loved the presence this guy had. First he is going to check you and if your still around he finish you off. Normally Commie wasn't dirty or cheap... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sprig Posted March 12, 2002 Share Posted March 12, 2002 Agreed on Commie. Although he could drive you nuts sometimes taking penalties, there just wasn't cheap after the whistle stuff going on when he was on the ice. And when it came to crunch time in the playoffs, he was super tough defensively, knocked opponents cleanly on their butts, and stayed out of the PB. There were more than a few opponents this year that needed to know what they were up against if they committed after the whistle cheap crap against the Sioux (Murray and Taffe comes to mind). Really hate the way weanies hide behind the rules. Would have to think that a Demarchi/Commie match up would have occured this year, if both had a DQ to give. The pic in the Sioux book is a classic, two off-ice BC'ers looking up at Commie through the glass when the Sioux are practicing before the FF in 2000. Archie??? wonder if he's reached a state of partial sanity yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted March 12, 2002 Share Posted March 12, 2002 Ah yes, "goons." Why can't we have more players who give thrills through their offensive ability? Why can't we have more guys with careers like this: Yr Gm G A Pts Fr 41 10 16 26 So 33 7 14 21 Jr 44 21 15 36 Sr 41 37 24 61 Yes, why can't we have guys who steadily improve over time to the point of having a 37 goal, 61 point senior year? Instead we get goons. You see, the stats above belong to James "Jim" Archibald. Yes, THAT Jim Archibald. Archie had two 20 goal seasons. Why can't we have MORE Jim Archibalds. Archie was a fighter and tough guy but seldom an instigator. He stood in front of the other team's net and put in pucks. He took a lot of abuse doing that and returned much of it. He did a job. And he had a sixty point senior year. How many Fighting Sioux players can say they've had a sixty point year? And Commy a goon? Commy was no worse than anyone else in the league. He had a simple problem. He was 6'3" hitting 5'10" guys. Everything looked like a high hit. Also the referees took special note of him after his dismantling of a Badger (a Badger who instigated). He spent time in the box but look back and see if he was on the ice for any of Karl Goehring's or Andy Kollar's concussions. Goalies are safer with guys like Commodore on the ice. And before someone brings it up, Archie's other noteworthy stats: PIM Fr So Jr Sr: 96 91 156 197 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goon Posted March 12, 2002 Share Posted March 12, 2002 This is the same old tired argument that has been around for years. College hockey is percieved to be the cleaner of the leagues while the NHL is filled with goons and fights mar every single game almost every single night. Wrong, wrong, wrong... College hockey has become a stick wielding, stick swinging league, if the stick work doesn't get under control WCHA is going to stand for Busch league. The WCHA is starting to marvel the Swedish Ice Hockey Federation. 2 reason this the over zealous bogus no fight rule and the full face shield. The shield makes players think they are invincible and they swing their stick with out reguard for other players, seen many incidents of this in the past year. With the aluminum stick you can hear sticks wacking the opposing players up and down the ice. Friday and Saturday nights games were filled with such incidents. I don't half as many incidents such as these in the NHL, if you stick Lindros your going to pay for it. When ever college hockey players get mad wether it be from a legal check or a being show up they go back and cross check or high stick, slash an opposing players. I guarentee if you had to face a Mike Commodore or other tough guy for after you committed a gutless act you might think twice about cheaping someone again. So a goon/tug like Matt Demarchi might think twice about pulling off a cheap act if he knew he was going to have to pay for it with his teeth in a fight against a heavy weight. Demarchi although talented will not get away with his antics in the ECHL, AHL or NHL. I have read somewhere or heard it on the radio (Tim in the morning) Commodore was actually has been told he needs to fight more (he is not fighting enough) so that pretty much shoots the argument that Demarchi a goon in the butt... Obviously Dave your not very knowledgeable about hockey, if you watched the NHL you will notice that the NHL's hockey players are way more talented and skate way better than most college hockey players. NHL hockey is a game that is like a tactical battle everything runs like clock. NHL defenses are like the Berlin wall tough to get through. NHL goalies have 90 save percentages and even the percieved Goons can skate better than most college hockey players. I wouldn't go around spouting off about something you don't know about. For years I have heard this argument and it doesn't wash. Mike Commodore is an awesome folk hero because he was a man of honor, he strapped it on and played the game straight up. Mike had no fear and players knew that if you took liberties with the percieved skilled players Mike would be there to challenge you that was his role he wasn't a punk or a cheap hockey player. If you got hit by mike it was a clean hit. Mike is an NHL player now and has fit in quite well, I get sick of hearing how people think Mike is a goon, they just don't know what they are talking about, I did take 19 commodores on my team any day because there would be less stick swinging... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YaneA Posted March 12, 2002 Share Posted March 12, 2002 Never had the pleasure of seeing Archibald play. I've been a Sioux fan--####, a hockey fan-- for only 7 or 8 seasons and it was a huge shock to me to see that the most penalized Sioux player in history also put up big offensive numbers. How many points could he have scored in his senior year if he hadn't been in the box for the equivalent of 3+ games? I also started as a fan of the finesse game and couldn't get my head around the necessity/desirability of the enforcer. But I was quickly converted when I saw opponents run our small goalies and pull cheap stuff on the Smurfs. My respect for Commie grew and grew when I noticed how much his skating improved even as his "rep" grew. If Commie and Archie were goons, I'm glad they were OUR goons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mksioux Posted March 12, 2002 Share Posted March 12, 2002 Because a player is a goon does not make him classless. Some goons have a lot more class than "finesse" players. I made the comment that Jason Blake was not classy because of his cocky propensity to antaganize other teams with his mouth and with gestures and because I've heard that he wasn't a very good teammate. I think Commodore had a lot of class. Since he left, UND's sorely missed his leadership and rugged style of play. I admit that I sometimes would get upset by some untimely penalties, but he made up for it in other areas (intimidation, keeping opposing players from rushing the goalie, getting the team out of a funk with a timely big hit, etc.). I'm too young to remember Archibold play for the Sioux, but just based on the stories I read in the Fight On Sioux book, he's a legend! It sounds like he didn't give it to anyone who didn't have it coming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goon Posted March 12, 2002 Share Posted March 12, 2002 As for the differences between the NHL and college hockey... yes, there is far superior talent in the NHL. But I don't want to see all these idiots dropping their gloves and duking it out every other game. I understand there is certain percentage of fans who enjoy that part of the game, but I'd be willing to bet those are the same people who watch wrestling. Give me Mario Lemiuex, Jaromir Jagr, Paul Kariya, Pavel Bure, etc... but I have no interest in watching barbarians like Tie Domi. I know some people like to call them enforcers, but to me enforcer is just a nicer word for goon. The NHL needs to do three things to improve their product: 1. They need to fine and suspend guys for fighting, period. In any other professional league (NFL, NBA, MLB) they don't put up with that crap. The NHL shouldn't either. It sets a horrible example for kids. I can tolerate stick-swinging to some extent, but I can't tolerate the fighting. It's just immature macho BS. 2. Make players wear a face-mask or full shield like they do in the NCAA. Martin Straka recently got hit in the face accidentally by a teammate's stick and fractured a bone around his eye socket. Had he been wearing a face-mask or full shield he wouldn't have been injured. I'm not interested in seeing bloody facial injuries. Again, the WWF fans probably enjoy that stuff. Not me. 3. Eliminate the red line and open up the offensive game. I don't have to see a lot of goals, but I at least want to see a lot of shots on goal. I don't care to watch the New Jersey Devils and the Minnesota Wild run their clutch and grab, neutral-zone trap. People pay a lot of money for tickets to those games, I think they're entitled to some entertainment. You what I hate? I hate trying to defend hockey to someone that does not know what he is talking about, or do they understand the traditions or the way hockey is. Ok, let me make this simple in the NHL, fighting Majors in the NHL are way down, have been for quite some time. However, other incidents are up (Stick Swinging, kneeing etc). You want to know why this is. It is because of the so called more skill Europeans that are not flooding the NHL game. In the Olympics Keth TKachuck was kneed by a Russian player. Boy that is a great alturnative to fighting. Just like Don Cherry says on Hockey night in Canada says by God the Fighting Majors go down in the playoffs because of the instigator rule but stick fouls go up. Think about by saying your against fighting means your going to get stick work... Can't have it both ways... Actually lately I can't remember seeing two games in a row for a long time where there was actually a fight. Maybe you should switch to another sport like basketball, the point is Fighting is a part of the game it used as a tactic to police the game. Hockey is a game of intimidation a contact sport, if you think other wise your wrong. Unforuanately the NCA$$ stepped in and made some rules to outlaw it. I personally think the NCAA is an organization that time passed by. Until they losen the laws on the Full shield and the time a person has to serve in the box/press box for a fight will determine how much stick work there is in College hockey. I like how you determine that if a player dropps his gloves he is an idiot. Stu Grimson writes childrens book... The NHL Players unions will not allow the NHL to make face shield mandatory. Again, I am not sure where you get your ideas but your using reversed logic when it comes to hockey. If you want finese you might want to stick to golf and figure skating... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jk Posted March 12, 2002 Share Posted March 12, 2002 Goon, Tell us what you really think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goon Posted March 13, 2002 Share Posted March 13, 2002 The issue of face shields that was discussed quite a bit a in the last couple of years and there two points to that argument. The players union will not allow the NHL to make half shields mandatory, players want to have the choice to make that decision or not themselves and don't want it mandated by the NHL. Some players don't like them because when they recieve a check to the face sometimes the shield will cut their bridge of their nose causing more an injury to the player. Shields are also hard to see in sometimes because they get fogged up. Full Face shield are hard to breath in and the first thing a player gets rid of when they make the jump from college to the pros is the mask/shield. The player from what I heard don't like them and would love to option of not wearing a full shield. There is also an unwritten rule that players that ussually dont' fight wear a shield are tougher than ones that do, wether you like that line of Don Cherry thinking is up to each person. There is also the percieved toughness as far as the shield go. I has been argued in the NHL that some of the players that wear shields turtle behind them and are more careless than players that don't. As mentioned earlier the full shield is blamed by many for reckless abandon on the ice and cause players to play with their stick up. The full shield/face mask has been said to cause more concussions to players that use them. As far as the Great one not liking goon/enforcers. Gretzky when he was winning Stanley Cups in Edmonton had Marty Mcsorely and Dave Semenko on his wing to protect him and there was an understanding if you got out of line with Wayne you would have to contend with Dave or Marrty. So Gretzky benifited by having these players on his team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scofarr Posted March 13, 2002 Share Posted March 13, 2002 the thing that bothers me is the attitude of the goofer fans! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DLW4GOPHERS Posted March 14, 2002 Share Posted March 14, 2002 the thing that bothers me is the attitude of the goofer fans! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyeagle Posted March 15, 2002 Share Posted March 15, 2002 "I would argue that their tradition isn't as great as ours (easy argument), but they are one of a handful of programs that I have a great deal of respect for." Easy or subjective? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taz Boy Posted March 16, 2002 Share Posted March 16, 2002 The Gopher program is indeed storied and has brought a degree of prestige to the sport of college hockey. This is certainly one of the reasons why it is considered a rival of so many other schools. Year after year, WCHA teams generally agree that the Gophs are the team to beat-- even when they suck. Why? 1) Pride On Ice No other aspect of the Gopher program has caused more nausea than the "All Minnesota" team. What was once a focus of hockey excellence, became a pathetic crutch to explain why they cannot win the big one. From the "USA!" chants to the "24 yr old freshmen" excuses, the Goofer faithful had become notoriously predictable, whiny, and embarrassing. While Lucia has mended this greatly, I can still hear the echoes of the "pride" mentality from out-of-touch Minnesotans who haven't watched the team play in 10 years. 2) Big City Media Coverage Let's face it, the Gophers are the queen of the midwest media-- even dwarfing the Badgers. The coverage is all Gopher, even with a losing record. Up until a few years ago, if you lived in Grand Forks and didn't have season tix to the Sioux, you watched the Gophers on MSC. College Hockey Game of the Week? Sure, as long as it's the Gophs. 3) The Shrine Holds the world record for the longest sustained collective groan during a hockey game. I can never tell if a Gopher fan is actually enjoying the game. It looks like they endure pain no matter what the score is. Woog polluted the fan base by his public rants about how unfair college hockey was treating his poor young Minnesota boys. I don't mean that other coaches refrain from public whining (see Blais after the Wisconsin series), but the Wooger took it to an artistic level never before seen in college athletics. The majority of my discussions with "old school" Goofers was almost always centered around the many excuses as to why the team lost, or will lose again. 4) Hot Cheerleaders The Gopher's always have the best looking cheerleaders for hockey. This year is no exception. This makes other schools want to beat the team and then sleep with the cheer-chicks. When neither happens, this leads to huge frustration. Maybe it's all just jealousy and the smaller WCHA schools should be happy they are in the same league with the Big 10 teams. Or, maybe its just 'cause it's the Gophs. Good luck to U of M in the NCAA. I'm personally pulling for Denver, but mostly want the championship to stay out of the hands of Hockey East. taz wants next season to start already-- I miss the Ralph Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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