Problems I Noticed With Attendence This Year

[SiouxDude12]

I don't think it would be a stretch to say that the attendence this year at home football games has been alarming, especially the lack of student support. Let's face it, yesterday they just completely threw away the one student section for elementary school band kids to sit in. So obviously there is a problem about the student attendence and the overall attendence as well, but to be able to fix it I think someone has to point out what the real issues are. I've noticed a few things this year, and maybe if I point them out someone will read this and take some of it to heart.

1. HEY ALERUS CENTER, TREAT FANS LIKE YOUR GUESTS INSTEAD OF YOUR PROBLEM!

Yesterday when I was coming through the turnstiles for the game I saw 3 different students get told that they can't come in to the Alerus Center because they didn't have their Student ID to go with their ticket. REALLY! I mean REALLY? We can't get students to come to games, and now we are turning away the ones we do get because they dont have their ID? WHO CARES? They have a ticket, they might cheer, they might spend money, they definitely weren't taking someone's seat away who did bring their ID. Oh by the way I got in with a student ticket and no ID yesterday, maybe some consistentcy wouldn't hurt?

Another thing I noticed was during the Cal Poly game, some people were leaning up against their seats during a dead ball period, not sitting or standing, but just leaning. Within seconds a security guard came down to tell them that they either have to sit or stand, they can't lean. I know it's a minor thing but come on, what are they hurting.

One more thing on this topic, one of my friends decided he wanted to go down to the front row during the Cal Poly game, he got down there and I can only assume was heckeling some of the Cal Poly players, and a security guard apparently saw him go down there and asked him to return to his original seat. My friend asked, well if I had a coat in this empty seat right here could I stand here and do the same thing, and the guard said "sure, thats a different story, but you need to be in your seat."

2. WHAT HAPPENED TO TAILGATING

This should be an "event" something that people get excited to do, even if they aren't football fans. The people who do go out and tailgate, kudos to you. You spend a lot of money to make it an enjoyable time. But this is something that if enhanced, would at least raise interest. I don't think it's a secret that people in ND love to drink, and a lot of people like sports. It's just the culture. It shouldn't be that hard to get people interested in doing both. I know all businesses are in things to make money now, but this is a great promotional opportunity for businesses in the area. Have games, events, and things to do, give out shirts, I dunno something. I know there is some of that, but it could be expanded upon. Granted there will have to be more people involved with the tailgating to make that worth it. This kinda gets back to the Alerus Center issues. Does EVERYTHING have to be about making an extra couple bucks? There are a lot of college students who will not go tailgating because it costs $5 to park in there. A little deregulation wouldn't hurt anything. Get people involved, get them in the seats, and get some atmosphere back in the Alerus.

3. MARKET BETTER

Right now it seems to me that the only reason to come to a UND football game is because you like watching football. Well we have a 13,000+ seat stadium and not a population that contains 13,000+ people who love football enough to take 3.5 hours out of their Saturday to go to a game. People do like being entertained though. Make football games an event. I mean it's obvious that people don't care about who we are playing. Cal Poly comes, great team, in conference team, and nobody shows up, but we get an extra 1000 people for a 2-6 NAIA opponent on the opening of deer season. We are constantly battling hunitng season up here, I understand that, but I know it wouldn't affect the hockey crowds thats a given. Football here is like basketball is to Florida. When we have a good team people care, but there is no loyalty. We have to figure out a way to build loyalty amongst the alumni, community, and what should be the easiest target, the students.

This may seem very simple, but if students don't come to games now, they aren't going to donate when they are alumni, or make the trip up for games in 10 years. Make the games more student centric. Go to any large school, people do not miss football games. We are D1 now, it's time that we do the same. Make the Alerus Center an experience instead of an inconvienience.

I would have to assume that Cal Poly, Southern Oregon, Stony Brook, and Sioux Falls don't think the Alerus is a tough place to play. South Dakota may beg to differ, since we actually had people show up and made their lives a living hell for 3.5 hours, and look what happened. I don't think any school wants to be known as a nice place for road teams to come into and play. The Alerus is becoming that. Just a few thoughts, take them or leave them. If you have any comments I would love to hear them, because we are faced with a huge problem, and something needs to be done about it. Without a voice nothing will ever get fixed.

[dlsiouxfan]

I don't think it would be a stretch to say that the attendence this year at home football games has been alarming, especially the lack of student support. Let's face it, yesterday they just completely threw away the one student section for elementary school band kids to sit in. So obviously there is a problem about the student attendence and the overall attendence as well, but to be able to fix it I think someone has to point out what the real issues are. I've noticed a few things this year, and maybe if I point them out someone will read this and take some of it to heart.

1. HEY ALERUS CENTER, TREAT FANS LIKE YOUR GUESTS INSTEAD OF YOUR PROBLEM!

Yesterday when I was coming through the turnstiles for the game I saw 3 different students get told that they can't come in to the Alerus Center because they didn't have their Student ID to go with their ticket. REALLY! I mean REALLY? We can't get students to come to games, and now we are turning the ones we do get because they dont have their ID? WHO CARES? They have a ticket, they might cheer, they might spend money, they definitely weren't taking someone's seat away who did bring their ID. Oh by the way I got in with a student ticket and no ID yesterday, maybe some consistentcy wouldn't hurt?

Another thing I noticed was during the Cal Poly game, some people were leaning up against their seats during a dead ball period, not sitting or standing, but just leaning. Within seconds a security guard came down to tell them that they either have to sit or stand, they can't lean. I know it's a minor thing but come on, what are they hurting.

One more thing on this topic, one of my friends decided he wanted to go down to the front row during the Cal Poly game, he got down there and I can only assume was heckeling some of the Cal Poly players, and a security guard apparently saw him go down there and asked him to return to his original seat. My friend asked, well if I had a coat in this empty seat right here could I stand here and do the same thing, and the guard said "sure, thats a different story, but you need to be in your seat."

2. WHAT HAPPENED TO TAILGATING

This should be an "event" something that people get excited to do, even if they aren't football fans. The people who do go out and tailgate, kudos to you. You spend a lot of money to make it an enjoyable time. But this is something that if enhanced, would at least raise interest. I don't think it's a secret that people in ND love to drink, and a lot of people like sports. It's just the culture. It shouldn't be that hard to get people interested in doing both. I know all business are in things to make money now, but this is a great promotional opportunity for businesses in the area. Have games, events, and things to do, give out shirts, I dunno something. I know there is some of that, but it could be expanded upon. Granted there will have to be more people involved with the tailgating to make that worth it. This kinda gets back to the Alerus Center issues. Does EVERYTHING have to be about making an extra couple bucks? There are a lot of college students who will not go tailgating because it costs $5 to park in there. A little deregulation wouldn't hurt anything. Get people involved, get them in the seats, and get some atmosphere back in the Alerus.

3. MARKET BETTER

Right now it seems to me that the only reason to come to a UND football game is because you like watching football. Well we have a 13,000+ seat stadium and not a population that contains 13,000+ people who love football enough to take 3.5 hours out of their Saturday to go to a game. People do like being entertained though. Make football games an event. I mean it's obvious that people don't care about who we are playing. Cal Poly comes, great team, in conference team, and nobody shows up, but we get an extra 1000 people for a 2-6 NAIA opponent on the opening of deer season. We are constantly battling hunitng season up here, I understand that, but I know it wouldn't affect the hockey crowds thats a given. Football here is like basketball is to Florida. When we have a good team people care, but there is no loyalty. We have to figure out a way to build loyalty amongst the alumni, community, and what should be the easiest target, the students.

This may seem very simple, but if students don't come to games now, they aren't going to donate when they are alumni, or make the trip up for games in 10 years. Make the games more student centric. Go to any large school, people do not miss football games. We are D1 now, it's time that we do the same. Make the Alerus Center an experience instead of an inconvienience.

I would have to assume that Cal Poly, Southern Oregon, Stony Brook, and Sioux Falls don't think the Alerus is a tough place to play. South Dakota may beg to differ, since we actually had people show up and made their lives a living hell for 3.5 hours, and look what happened. I don't think any school wants to be known as a nice place for road teams to come into and play. The Alerus is becoming that. Just a few thoughts, take them or leave them. If you have any comments I would love to hear them, because we are faced with a huge problem, and something needs to be done about it. Without a voice nothing will ever get fixed.

Pretty much spot on. Couldn't be said any better than this.

[UND92,96]

I don't think it would be a stretch to say that the attendence this year at home football games has been alarming, especially the lack of student support. Let's face it, yesterday they just completely threw away the one student section for elementary school band kids to sit in. So obviously there is a problem about the student attendence and the overall attendence as well, but to be able to fix it I think someone has to point out what the real issues are. I've noticed a few things this year, and maybe if I point them out someone will read this and take some of it to heart.

1. HEY ALERUS CENTER, TREAT FANS LIKE YOUR GUESTS INSTEAD OF YOUR PROBLEM!

Yesterday when I was coming through the turnstiles for the game I saw 3 different students get told that they can't come in to the Alerus Center because they didn't have their Student ID to go with their ticket. REALLY! I mean REALLY? We can't get students to come to games, and now we are turning away the ones we do get because they dont have their ID? WHO CARES? They have a ticket, they might cheer, they might spend money, they definitely weren't taking someone's seat away who did bring their ID. Oh by the way I got in with a student ticket and no ID yesterday, maybe some consistentcy wouldn't hurt?

Another thing I noticed was during the Cal Poly game, some people were leaning up against their seats during a dead ball period, not sitting or standing, but just leaning. Within seconds a security guard came down to tell them that they either have to sit or stand, they can't lean. I know it's a minor thing but come on, what are they hurting.

One more thing on this topic, one of my friends decided he wanted to go down to the front row during the Cal Poly game, he got down there and I can only assume was heckeling some of the Cal Poly players, and a security guard apparently saw him go down there and asked him to return to his original seat. My friend asked, well if I had a coat in this empty seat right here could I stand here and do the same thing, and the guard said "sure, thats a different story, but you need to be in your seat."

2. WHAT HAPPENED TO TAILGATING

This should be an "event" something that people get excited to do, even if they aren't football fans. The people who do go out and tailgate, kudos to you. You spend a lot of money to make it an enjoyable time. But this is something that if enhanced, would at least raise interest. I don't think it's a secret that people in ND love to drink, and a lot of people like sports. It's just the culture. It shouldn't be that hard to get people interested in doing both. I know all business are in things to make money now, but this is a great promotional opportunity for businesses in the area. Have games, events, and things to do, give out shirts, I dunno something. I know there is some of that, but it could be expanded upon. Granted there will have to be more people involved with the tailgating to make that worth it. This kinda gets back to the Alerus Center issues. Does EVERYTHING have to be about making an extra couple bucks? There are a lot of college students who will not go tailgating because it costs $5 to park in there. A little deregulation wouldn't hurt anything. Get people involved, get them in the seats, and get some atmosphere back in the Alerus.

3. MARKET BETTER

Right now it seems to me that the only reason to come to a UND football game is because you like watching football. Well we have a 13,000+ seat stadium and not a population that contains 13,000+ people who love football enough to take 3.5 hours out of their Saturday to go to a game. People do like being entertained though. Make football games an event. I mean it's obvious that people don't care about who we are playing. Cal Poly comes, great team, in conference team, and nobody shows up, but we get an extra 1000 people for a 2-6 NAIA opponent on the opening of deer season. We are constantly battling hunitng season up here, I understand that, but I know it wouldn't affect the hockey crowds thats a given. Football here is like basketball is to Florida. When we have a good team people care, but there is no loyalty. We have to figure out a way to build loyalty amongst the alumni, community, and what should be the easiest target, the students.

This may seem very simple, but if students don't come to games now, they aren't going to donate when they are alumni, or make the trip up for games in 10 years. Make the games more student centric. Go to any large school, people do not miss football games. We are D1 now, it's time that we do the same. Make the Alerus Center an experience instead of an inconvienience.

I would have to assume that Cal Poly, Southern Oregon, Stony Brook, and Sioux Falls don't think the Alerus is a tough place to play. South Dakota may beg to differ, since we actually had people show up and made their lives a living hell for 3.5 hours, and look what happened. I don't think any school wants to be known as a nice place for road teams to come into and play. The Alerus is becoming that. Just a few thoughts, take them or leave them. If you have any comments I would love to hear them, because we are faced with a huge problem, and something needs to be done about it. Without a voice nothing will ever get fixed.

I would recommend sending an e-mail to Brian Faison. Not only is he obviously UND's a.d., but he's also on the Alerus Center commission.

[UND1983]

There will be a big difference in attendance and tailgating next year once we get back to a regular schedule. Having no games in September absolutely killed both. The weather is much nicer in September leading to more tailgating, its that simple. These last two games were very windy outside and that doesn't make the casual person want to be out there. Plus it was cold and windy for Cal Poly, not fun.

Look at how good attendance and tailgating was last year when we started out with 3 home games in September, it was great. And that was against 2 Division II teams and 1 Division III team.

We should never have this problem again IMO.

2010 schedule:

Sept. 4 Idaho Moscow, ID

Sept. 11 Northern Illinois Dekalb, IL

Sept. 18 Northeastern State Grand Forks, ND

Sept. 25 Northwestern State Grand Forks, ND

Oct. 2 South Dakota Vermillion, SD

Oct. 9 Southern Utah Grand Forks, ND

Oct. 23 Cal Poly San Luis Obispo, CA

Oct. 30 Lamar Grand Forks, ND

Nov. 6 UC Davis Grand Forks, ND

Nov. 13 Montana Mizzoula, MT

As you can see, two games in September and 1 in early October. Plus the Halloween weekend game is the night before Halloween instead of on it.

[star2city]

There will be a big difference in attendance and tailgating next year once we get back to a regular schedule. Having no games in September absolutely killed both. The weather is much nicer in September leading to more tailgating, its that simple. These last two games were very windy outside and that doesn't make the casual person want to be out there. Plus it was cold and windy for Cal Poly, not fun.

The schedule next year is much better. Non-BCS and FCS teams that don't have bowl or playoff possibilities in October and later often don't draw flies.

Here's Ryan Bakken Column on the same issue. Bakken mentions NDSU's fan base. Would agree bison fans are much more gullible and insecure, so the ego-inflating DI label does wonders for their attendance. However, NDSU's win against Minnesota really legitimized and galvanized their fan base more than the Valpo show ever could have, and their fan base are still basking in that glow. If NDSU doesn't see playoffs in a few years, it could get very ugly there. I was personally hoping that UND could see the playoffs before NDSU, but schizophrenic play is not going to get us there.

Exhibit A) UND had no home games in September. This meant near-zero football buzz for the month when there’s usually the most buzz. It also meant the good weather for tailgating was wasted, with yesterday being the exception.

Sioux football became a fashionable sport when tailgating took off in the early 1990s. Better players and the social aspect of tailgating were equal drivers of Sioux football’s rise from the ashes. The game and the partying are still equal attractions, as they are across the country.

Exhibit B) Two home games fell on Saturdays when the Sioux hockey team also was playing at home. Some fans can’t do both. There’s nothing anyone can do about this one.

Exhibit C) This weird shift between 1 p.m. and 4 p.m. starting times. Pick a time. One time.

Exhibit D) The odd collection of opponents when you’re in the transition years. Before they played at the Alerus Center this year, who had ever heard of Stony Brook and Southern Oregon?

Exhibit E) The games have a sliver of the importance compared to years past. For the players, there’s a conference title. For the fans, a conference title isn’t much considering UND reached the national playoffs in six of its last seven seasons in Division II and 12 of its last 16. There are no playoffs now or in the near future under transition.

With playoff games — and especially home playoff games — on the line, fans had a big stake for showing up and making life miserable for opponents.

Exhibit F) UND came into Division I under different circumstances than NDSU did. UND came in with a long string of playoff successes. NDSU had never even had a playoff game in the Fargodome.

So, NDSU was excited that the move up and the scholarships that went with it would improve its football fortunes. The flame of interest was further fanned by winning its D-I opener in 2004 against Valparaiso, well known for its basketball. Never mind that Valparaiso gave out zero scholarships for football, the 52-0 thrashing further heightened the enthusiasm.

UND fans haven’t had the same excitement about moving up a division, probably because its hockey team has been there forever.

[darell1976]

The schedule next year is much better. Non-BCS and FCS teams that don't have bowl or playoff possibilities in October and later often don't draw flies.

Here's Ryan Bakken Column on the same issue. Bakken mentions NDSU's fan base. Would agree bison fans are much more gullible and insecure, so the ego-inflating DI label does wonders for their attendance. However, NDSU's win against Minnesota really legitimized and galvanized their fan base more than the Valpo show ever could have, and their fan base are still basking in that glow. If NDSU doesn't see playoffs in a few years, it could get very ugly there. I was personally hoping that UND could see the playoffs before NDSU, but schizophrenic play is not going to get us there.

They have a great fan base because football is #1 in this city whereas hockey is #1 in Grand Forks. If NDSU had hockey it would affect the base but since they have only football, men's bball, and volleyball its easy to put football #1. I have only been to a few games at the Alerus since moving to Fargo from Grand Forks in 1999 and the atomosphere there is way different than Memorial Staidum (which i miss with a passion). As a kid growing up in the 80's and 90's UND was near the bottom in the mid 80's in fact winning 2 games in 1986. But IMO those games were fun to attend the crowd was there and the whole atmosphere was great. I think we need Memorial Stadium back!!!

[Irish]

Agree with all points, especially about Alerus security - these guys are making an active attempt to ruin the game experience for most students. I'm an older fan, and not in favor of out of control rowdyness, but come on - I've sat close to the student section and the security is bound and determined to make sure no one has any fun. We need to take a serious look at this issue - I hope Faison gets this message.

In addition - if you want fans to turn up for football, it would be a good idea to make sure the football team shows up also - Yesterday was as poor a football experience as I can remember in 30 years. It's not just the wins and losses - it's the total lack of intensity and play calling on both sides of the ball. Give us a better product or get used to this. I have been a football fan for years and hate to see our program suffer.

[Let'sGoHawks!]

Gameday atmosphere is broken at the Al. What is currently done needs to be torn down, thrown on the floor, and rebuilt.

And no, I personally dont' know how to fix it...there are people with sports marketing degrees and experience that do know how to fix things. This will not help the product on the field and the suspect coaching decisions, that is a whole separate challenge.

HIRE A CONSULTANT.

[Detroit87]

Somehow if the football games could be a social event where people want to be seen at like hockey games it would help. This board has the real hockey fans on it and not a bunch of people who just go to games to be seen and have the chance to say they were at the hockey game. To do this they need to win then the people would be there.

[GDM]

Ah-ha ... so it's not just me. I've been a season ticket holder since Alerus opened and it's over an hour one-way by car for me.

Alerus security - these guys are making an active attempt to ruin the game experience for most students. I'm an older fan, and not in favor of out of control rowdyness, but come on ...

Yesterday I was sitting next to my wife, who is far from a problem fan. She'd crossed her leg and rested a knee on the seat back in front of us. She then extended that leg so her foot was hanging in free space. Call it a disgusted reclined slouch given what she was forced to watch by the home team.

Security rushed in to tell us you can't have a foot up on a chair back. That was it for me.

For the second time ever I walked out of a UND Athletic event. The first was the USF debacle. (We left the USF game because we observed Alerus security, FOUR security people, roust a young couple, that I could see were clearly of age, for their ID for having a beverage. Did I mention this couple was sitting with what looked to be one of their parents? Nice treatment in front of the in-laws for one of them, eh?)

We were the only two people in a vast open area of seats and her leg resting on an open chair back is an issue. We weren't blocking a view. We weren't putting any undo wear onto the facility. And right across the aisle from us was a group of people with legs slung over the chair backs and dirty shoes being put onto the seats. (Now that's undo wear.) And as we were walking out we passed another man who was seated with a leg up similarly and security had to have seen that too. Can you say inconsistency?

What wasn't the issue were the people who stood in the aisle in front of us blocking our view on at least three occassions during just the second quarter. Nope, being comfortable was the problem.

On the way out I asked to have my tickets scanned out. I was asked why because there is no re-entry. I said to speak to management about this undo security presence (no, really it's domination). Funny, I've had days where I scanned in and out of REA multiple times to meet people in the main lobby but it's a problem at Alerus?

I didn't talk to Alerus management. Why continue to be treated as if you're doing something wrong by just showing up.

This same person (the evil leg rester wife of mine) was at a Wild game recently. She couldn't remember security at the game other than at the turnstiles or to verify she was headed into the right section. Interesting comparison.

So, we left and headed over to REA to catch what was left of the OSU at UND womens hockey game.

We walked in there (main lobby), were greated by a "green jacket", and went right in. We sat close enough to the benches to smell "gear stink" and saw a much faster game than either of us expected.

Almost as a taunt I crossed a leg and put an actual shoe (gasp!) on the chair back in front of me. Nothing. Nada.

Matter of fact, we were greeted ("thanks for coming", "good night") by another "green jacket" and a uniformed REA guard on the way out after.

There's another interesting comparison I'd say.

Now UND Football has to convince us why we'd want to renew season tickets we've had since Alerus opened and why we'd ever want to go back there.

Signed,

A Fighting Sioux Club member and donating Alumnus

Closing Thought: We're not big tailgaters because of our drive. However, we have stopped for post-game to see friends on occassion. The requirement to be cleared out within what feels to be a far too short period of time (I think you have to be gone in like 45 minutes after the final gun) seems to be as detrimental to tailgating as anything. The people I last visited were genuinely concerned about being out on time so they wouldn't have to face the wrath of Alerus security. And it was real as I witnessed Alerus security coming through and "heavily encouraging" people to be on their way.

[dlsiouxfan]

Ah-ha ... so it's not just me. I've been a season ticket holder since Alerus opened and it's over an hour one-way by car for me.

Yesterday I was sitting next to my wife, who is far from a problem fan. She'd crossed her leg and rested a knee on the seat back in front of us. She then extended that leg so her foot was hanging in free space. Call it a disgusted reclined slouch given what she was forced to watch by the home team.

Security rushed in to tell us you can't have a foot up on a chair back. That was it for me.

For the second time ever I walked out of a UND Athletic event. The first was the USF debacle. (We left the USF game because we observed Alerus security, FOUR security people, roust a young couple, that I could see were clearly of age, for their ID for having a beverage. Did I mention this couple was sitting with what looked to be one of their parents? Nice treatment in front of the in-laws for one of them, eh?)

We were the only two people in a vast open area of seats and her leg resting on an open chair back is an issue. We weren't blocking a view. We weren't putting any undo wear onto the facility. And right across the aisle from us was a group of people with legs slung over the chair backs and dirty shoes being put onto the seats. (Now that's undo wear.) And as we were walking out we passed another man who was seated with a leg up similarly and security had to have seen that too. Can you say inconsistency?

What wasn't the issue were the people who stood in the aisle in front of us blocking our view on at least three occassions during just the second quarter. Nope, being comfortable was the problem.

On the way out I asked to have my tickets scanned out. I was asked why because there is no re-entry. I said to speak to management about this undo security presence (no, really it's domination). Funny, I've had days where I scanned in and out of REA multiple times to meet people in the main lobby but it's a problem at Alerus?

I didn't talk to Alerus management. Why continue to be treated as if you're doing something wrong by just showing up.

This same person (the evil leg rester wife of mine) was at a Wild game recently. She couldn't remember security at the game other than at the turnstiles or to verify she was headed into the right section. Interesting comparison.

So, we left and headed over to REA to catch what was left of the OSU at UND womens hockey game.

We walked in there (main lobby), were greated by a "green jacket", and went right in. We sat close enough to the benches to smell "gear stink" and saw a much faster game than either of us expected.

Almost as a taunt I crossed a leg and put an actual shoe (gasp!) on the chair back in front of me. Nothing. Nada.

Matter of fact, we were greeted ("thanks for coming", "good night") by another "green jacket" and a uniformed REA guard on the way out after.

There's another interesting comparison I'd say.

Now UND Football has to convince us why we'd want to renew season tickets we've had since Alerus opened and why we'd ever want to go back there.

Signed,

A Fighting Sioux Club member and donating Alumnus

Closing Thought: We're not big tailgaters because of our drive. However, we have stopped for post-game to see friends on occassion. The requirement to be cleared out within what feels to be a far too short period of time (I think you have to be gone in like 45 minutes after the final gun) seems to be as detrimental to tailgating as anything. The people I last visited were genuinely concerned about being out on time so they wouldn't have to face the wrath of Alerus security. And it was real as I witnessed Alerus security coming through and "heavily encouraging" people to be on their way.

I worked security at the Alerus for a number of events during college. I never worked a football game but worked a lot of concerts and gradually determined that some of my co-workers just genuinely enjoyed being dicks to people at these events. It was major power trip for them and they just couldn't seem to understand that the people they were harassing over minor or bogus transgressions had paid to have a good time which they were then spoiling. The security is so poorly trained that most of the time these jackasses would escalate minor situations into major ones by being overly confrontational with people. It frustrated a lot of people, including myself, and a great deal of the good security people stopped signing up to work events which has evidently led to what you're seeing today.

[Let'sGoHawks!]

Hearing stories like this, it is no wonder students don't come to the games. And the Alerus wonders why attendance is down.

[UNDvince97-01]

As already stated in this thread earlier, I also strongly encourage everyone to forward these thoughts to Alerus management and AD Brian Faison.

[SiouxDude12]

Hey this is great, we are finally hearing some input that could maybe lead to some answers. I'm only one pair of eyes, but it seems like a lot of other people recognize the same things as I did. The only alarming thing I saw on here was the "oh it will get better next year" post because of the schedule. Look at this year, we played Cal Poly(nationally ranked, in our conference, lost to Wisconsin in OT last year because of 3 missed XPs and a missed FG) and we had the worst turn out of the season. That game should have been a sell out without a doubt be it on Halloween or not. There are 5 home games a year. By the way, when you have a holiday which is meant for fun, DON'T SCHEDULE THE GAME AT 4 SO YOU LOSE TRICK OR TREATERS and maybe run a promotion with it. Use the holiday, don't fight it. Volleyball had a game that afternoon and drew very well for a volleyball game. I don't think people realize how elastic students are in respect to attending events. If something isn't perceived as "cool" they will not go and that stigma can follow something for a long time. When I started college here, football games were an event, people wanted to go. I'm now a graduate student with a slightly different perspective on things, and well going to football games has taken a backseat to the following things which I've observed: watching other football games on TV, drinking at home because it costs too much to do it at the game, hunting, purely lack of interest, and my favorite excuse of all "football games are a buzzkill." This is a problem, I know I'm not doing the books for the athletic dept, but I do know that alumni are a large source of income for the athletic dept. If you don't hook alumni while they are still students, you're going to lose them forever. It may seem as though putting up with the student body can be more of a hassle than anything, but catering to this demographic is more of an investment than anything for the athletic department.

That being said, there is a huge conflict of interest between our football program and it's venue. The goal of the football program is to put a good quality product on the field and attract fans, gain loyalty, sell shirts, make money. The goal of the Alerus center is to make sure their facility doesn't get wrecked and to make money. These 2 may not always go hand in hand. I'm not saying that everyone should go get drunk and wreck the Alerus Center, but you have to have some leeway when dealing with the target market for a college football game. Sporting events (especially football) should be a way for people to just let off some steam, have fun, get an adrenaline rush, and create memories. Like I said in my original post, people don't go to a football game to watch 22 guys run into eachother, they go to a football game to be entertained and be a part of something bigger than themselves. If they just want to see football they can watch 80 games on TV every Saturday. College football is a business at its roots, it's a service, and the attendees are it's clients. Give people the experience they are looking for, and they will keep coming back for more. Obviously this hasn't been the case. I guarantee when people leave the REA after a hockey game they have a feeling like (that was worth my $25+ dollars) even if the team did lose they got $ 25 of enjoyment out of their ticket. I am a football fan, I enjoy watching it, I have friends on the team that play, but in all honesty, as someone who has spent 4.5 years of my life at this University I can't say that I receive the face value of entertainment out of my ticket (which as a student is free).

Hearing the story of the season ticket holder leaving for a women's hockey game just saddens me. Our athletic department needs to realize that if you keep biting the hand that feeds you that before too long you're not going to have any food to eat. I see this year as being a huge feast on that hand. One other thing I found out last night which led me to create an account on here and express my concern is the following information:

We were supposed to have a home game against Idaho State this year. Oklahoma bought out our contract with them so they could play them this year instead. Our home game got bought out for $25K. Is that really the value that our athletic department has on a Fighting Sioux home game? $25K? My source on this information is fairly reliable, I didn't just make it up. But if this is indeed the case then we have a lot of work ahead of us as a university and as an athletic department. I realize that this may have occured (and most likely did occur, during the Bunning era, so Faison probably isn't to blame) It starts at the top, and if Faison can't see it, and attempt to fix it, maybe it's time to move in a different direction. I'm not calling for his job, but I'm calling for some action.

[SiouxMD]

We were supposed to have a home game against Idaho State this year. Oklahoma bought out our contract with them so they could play them this year instead. Our home game got bought out for $25K. Is that really the value that our athletic department has on a Fighting Sioux home game? $25K? My source on this information is fairly reliable, I didn't just make it up. But if this is indeed the case then we have a lot of work ahead of us as a university and as an athletic department. I realize that this may have occured (and most likely did occur, during the Bunning era, so Faison probably isn't to blame) It starts at the top, and if Faison can't see it, and attempt to fix it, maybe it's time to move in a different direction. I'm not calling for his job, but I'm calling for some action.

A buyout at the Alerus Center has gotten more expensive...

[jimdahl]

2. WHAT HAPPENED TO TAILGATING

This should be an "event" something that people get excited to do, even if they aren't football fans. The people who do go out and tailgate, kudos to you. You spend a lot of money to make it an enjoyable time. But this is something that if enhanced, would at least raise interest. I don't think it's a secret that people in ND love to drink, and a lot of people like sports. It's just the culture. It shouldn't be that hard to get people interested in doing both. I know all businesses are in things to make money now, but this is a great promotional opportunity for businesses in the area. Have games, events, and things to do, give out shirts, I dunno something. I know there is some of that, but it could be expanded upon. Granted there will have to be more people involved with the tailgating to make that worth it. This kinda gets back to the Alerus Center issues. Does EVERYTHING have to be about making an extra couple bucks? There are a lot of college students who will not go tailgating because it costs $5 to park in there. A little deregulation wouldn't hurt anything. Get people involved, get them in the seats, and get some atmosphere back in the Alerus.

I've frequently made a point similar to this in regard to hockey and REA in particular.

Short-term revenue maximization (e.g. making people pay a trivial amount to tailgate, for an arena tour, to watch a game on the internet, etc...) needs to be carefully weighed against long-term fan loyalty. By treating every interaction with the public as a business transaction in which UND extracts maximum revenue, I think they risk turning their fans into customers instead. That would have the potential to be a big negative in the long-run, because customers don't have the same loyalty fans do. When the team is down, the novelty of a new arena has worn off, or the customers don't perceive that they're getting their value, they might move on much more quickly.

I wonder if you can get more stable revenue out of more loyal fans in the long run. They'll keep showing up when the team loses, they'll send checks when they're alums, and they'll buy their kids Sioux gear, etc...

As a counterpoint -- REA and UND seem to have done fine for themselves ignoring my advice to date, so I'm probably just a crotchety old guy whose memories of his student days (when we could walk in free to any football or hockey game) is out of touch with modern realities.

[mksioux]

So this is what it's come down to...blaiming SECURITY for the lack of attendance? I don't doubt the veracity of the stories and maybe security needs to be better trained in customer service. But come on, security would not even crack the top-ten for reasons why attendance is down this year.

Remember, students on this board criticized REA security for years. I can't even remember how many threads were started about how poorly REA treated students. It was probably THE most recurring topic on this forum for years. Yet, miraculously, attendance at the Ralph has remained just fine.

[Matt]

They have a great fan base because football is #1 in this city whereas hockey is #1 in Grand Forks. If NDSU had hockey it would affect the base but since they have only football, men's bball, and volleyball its easy to put football #1. I have only been to a few games at the Alerus since moving to Fargo from Grand Forks in 1999 and the atomosphere there is way different than Memorial Staidum (which i miss with a passion). As a kid growing up in the 80's and 90's UND was near the bottom in the mid 80's in fact winning 2 games in 1986. But IMO those games were fun to attend the crowd was there and the whole atmosphere was great. I think we need Memorial Stadium back!!!

Let's not get overly nostalgic here. I enjoy outdoor football too, but Memorial had its own attendance problems in cold weather even in the 90s with good teams. The Alerus made the football program among the best in attendance nationally in D2. The atmosphere was better outside, but find me a dome team whose fan base doesn't make that same claim.

[mksioux]

By the way, when you have a holiday which is meant for fun, DON'T SCHEDULE THE GAME AT 4 SO YOU LOSE TRICK OR TREATERS and maybe run a promotion with it. Use the holiday, don't fight it.

I'm pretty sure the 4 p.m. start time was dictated by television (Fox College Sports). To get your games on national TV, sometimes you have to be flexible with the start time. But I fully agree that a Halloween game could have been marketed much better.

That being said, there is a huge conflict of interest between our football program and it's venue. The goal of the football program is to put a good quality product on the field and attract fans, gain loyalty, sell shirts, make money. The goal of the Alerus center is to make sure their facility doesn't get wrecked and to make money. These 2 may not always go hand in hand.

Maximum attendance is the MAIN priority for both parties. The amount of money the Alerus makes at a football game (concessions, parking, etc.) is directly tied to attendance. I don't see a conflict of interest, let alone a "huge" one. Security is always a delicate balance, whether the facility is owned by the city, the University, or a private entity. Sometimes the balance shifts too heavy on one side and needs to be adjusted. You can think security is too strict now, and you might be right. But there is no inherent conflict of interest as it relates to security.

One other thing I found out last night which led me to create an account on here and express my concern is the following information:

We were supposed to have a home game against Idaho State this year. Oklahoma bought out our contract with them so they could play them this year instead. Our home game got bought out for $25K. Is that really the value that our athletic department has on a Fighting Sioux home game? $25K? My source on this information is fairly reliable, I didn't just make it up. But if this is indeed the case then we have a lot of work ahead of us as a university and as an athletic department. I realize that this may have occured (and most likely did occur, during the Bunning era, so Faison probably isn't to blame) It starts at the top, and if Faison can't see it, and attempt to fix it, maybe it's time to move in a different direction. I'm not calling for his job, but I'm calling for some action.

This is very old news and something that has been reported in the Herald and commented on many times on this board. Everyone agrees that the $25,000 buy-out was a joke. The Idaho State contract was done before Faison got here. Faison has negotiated much larger buyouts in the contracts he has handled (i.e. $100,000 for Montana).

[mksioux]

They have a great fan base because football is #1 in this city whereas hockey is #1 in Grand Forks. If NDSU had hockey it would affect the base but since they have only football, men's bball, and volleyball its easy to put football #1. I have only been to a few games at the Alerus since moving to Fargo from Grand Forks in 1999 and the atomosphere there is way different than Memorial Staidum (which i miss with a passion). As a kid growing up in the 80's and 90's UND was near the bottom in the mid 80's in fact winning 2 games in 1986. But IMO those games were fun to attend the crowd was there and the whole atmosphere was great. I think we need Memorial Stadium back!!!

I also miss outdoor football, but attendance at the Alerus Center has been much better than Memorial Stadium. That's just a fact. The reality is that football is not going back to Memorial Stadium any time soon. It's more productive to concetrate on improving the game day experience at Alerus Center than to advocate for something that isn't going to happen.

[Let'sGoHawks!]

mksioux: In your opinion, what is causing the low numbers? Is it simply the performance on the field? In your opinion, does the Alerus have a great gameday atmosphere?

[The Sicatoka]

So, we left and headed over to REA to catch what was left of the OSU at UND womens hockey game.

Volleyball had a game that afternoon and drew very well for a volleyball game.

So let me get this straight:

UND had head-to-head scheduled a volleyball game against the Cal Poly FB game.

And they head-to-head scheduled the OSU/UND womens hockey game against the SOU FB game.

Come on. Let's be serious.

Halloween VB could've been moved up to a 1 pm start given the 4 pm FB game.

Womens hockey could've played at 7 pm*, after FB, as the mens team was at Michigan Tech and there was no television.

*I'm assuming OSU didn't fly out Saturday night.

[star2city]

So let me get this straight:

UND had head-to-head scheduled a volleyball game against the Cal Poly FB game.

And they head-to-head scheduled the OSU/UND womens hockey game against the SOU FB game.

Come on. Let's be serious.

Halloween VB could've been moved up to a 1 pm start given the 4 pm FB game.

Womens hockey could've played at 7 pm*, after FB, as the mens team was at Michigan Tech and there was no television.

*I'm assuming OSU didn't fly out Saturday night.

On Halloween, the volleyball game was scheduled at noon, so students/fans could attend both voleyball and football if they so chose.

Why can't the women's home game scheduled simultaneously with men's away games, with the men's game being simulcast on the Big Screen? Arguably it could be distracting to the women, but attendance would soar.

[mksioux]

mksioux: In your opinion, what is causing the low numbers? Is it simply the performance on the field? In your opinion, does the Alerus have a great gameday atmosphere?

I think this a valid thread. It's a great discussion topic. And I don't dispute that the Alerus security has a place in the discussion somewhere down the list. I just don't want to see that issue blown out of proportion.

I think there are numerous reasons why the attendance is down and they have been covered extensively. No football in September was a huge factor. As is unfamilar opponents and playing a tiny conference (only two home conference games per season). No chance at playoffs is factor. Two hockey-football combos was a factor. Halloween night game was a factor. And yes, performance on the field is a factor as well. I think losing to Sioux Falls was a big factor in the Cal Poly attendance.

I think the best thing that could happen for football attendance would be for UND to get into a better football conference like the Missouri Valley. UND needs more conference games so it can start establishing familiar opponents and rivalries and so that fewer non-conference games are necessary. The more non-conference games the AD needs to schedule, the less leverage he has for dictating dates. Obviously playing NDSU again on a rotating schedule would be huge. UND's football conference situation is the most worrisome factor as far as I'm concerned. A lot of the other issues can be addressed, but getting into the MVFC is beyond UND's control.

As far as the game day atmosphere at the Alerus Center, I think a big part of the (lack of) atmosphere stems from low attendance. The fewer people that go to a game, the more boring the atmosphere becomes. A sold-out Alerus Center is a great atmosphere. Having said that, I do think there is room for improvement in the game day atmosphere. I think UND needs to take its marketing budget back from REA. I'm not familiar with the details, but UND needs to take control of its own marketing and market the heck out of football. When Sioux football season approaches, the people in the region have to know it. Perhaps more tailgating marketing is needed. I agree that a football game needs to be marketed as an event, and not just a football game. Leaving the parking lots open later after the game is a good idea. Maybe food contests, decoration contests, events for kids, a radio station broadcasting live from the tailgating lot, etc. There's a lot for a marketing department to work with in tailgating. Others have commented in other threads on ideas to get more students to games on football-hockey combo days and many of they were really good ideas. And yes, maybe security officials need to be better trained to be consistent and fair. I'm not trying to minimize the security issue, just to put it into its proper context.

[Let'sGoHawks!]

These are all good points, mk.