Midwest Regional Poll

[bisonguy]

I'm trying to figure out why Winona is ranked ahead of Concordia St. Paul. They have the same record, but Winona lost the head-head. Northern will probably be a good test for Winona, as they lost to CSP in a 59-52 shootout.

Edit- Whinona does have one more "W" than CSP. I guess that would be the reason.

[Bearer88]

What really boggles my mind is how Winona State is ranked so high in regards to CSP. I don't care if they have one more win, what does that mean? It seems like it should be simple math. Concordia beat Winona. Yes, it was in overtime, but Winona got lucky to even get to overtime. If you are telling me that Winona is the 3rd best team in the Midwest, then that means the Midwest is crap this year, and I know that it isn't. Concordia has one game left that they could lose: Duluth at Duluth. I was at the Winona-Concordia game and Winona is not a team that is going to beat many of the teams that are ranked in front of or behind them in the polls. I think what it really boils down to is the fact that the fellas over at D2football.com have a hard on for the Warriors..........

[BisonMav]

Bearer88 Posted on Oct 20 2003, 08:15 PM

  Concordia has one game left that they could lose: Duluth at Duluth.

Maybe two, NDSU 11/15 in Fargo.

[RD17]

For whatever reason, the D2Football.com poll always seems to have NCC teams rated too low. Brandon Misener, the guy that runs the site, is a fair guy who also happens to be a closet UND fan . The problem is that people that vote in the poll from around the country don't seem to like the NCC. There really isn't too much Brandon can do about it.

I agree that D2Football does have a MIAA slant to it. Like I said, I believe the people running the site are fair, it's just that at this level of football, it's not really possible to see all of the teams play and get a feel for how good or bad teams from different areas of the country might be. There's going to be a natural bias built in when you only see teams from one league or area play. If I'm a Big 10 fan, I can tune into dozens of games from other conferences around the country to see how they compare.

[WYOBISONMAN]

Yes, I think we have to cut Brandon some slack at D2football.com. He does not make the poll himself, but only facilitates the site ......for no compensation. It is just the bias of the people voting in the poll. All in all, the D2 site has contributed a great deal to the D2 football world. I don't like the MIAA bias, but still respect what the site has done for the game.

[CoteauRinkRat]

Hail the great d2football.com site.........................NOT!!!!!

[jimdahl]

Yes, I think we have to cut Brandon some slack at D2football.com.  He does not make the poll himself, but only facilitates the site.

I agree entirely. It is an actual poll, the aggregate of many people's opinions, not just some guy's rankings. I honestly don't know how representative the pollees are, but I just don't understand why anyone gets upset about a poll. It's interesting to watch polls to see what the pros/coaches/media think of your team, but if you're confident your team is underrated, have faith that will come out at game time.

[Bearer88]

Hey Jim Dahl..........wake up....polls do matter. Thats the reason teams get in the playoffs and why some teams get shut out. The BCS involves polls, but I guess thats not going to prevent Northern Illinois from getting in, right?!! The fact is polls are all around us and they effect a teams fate. They will effect UND's fate as well as effecting Concordia's fate..........the thing is, the voters always side with Goliath and all people like us get to do is bitch about it because its never going to change. Small schools that have the ability to beat the big ones (i.e. Winona two years ago barely making the playoffs and then putting more points up on UND than that defense allowed all year) rarely get the chance to do so........

[jimdahl]

Hey Jim Dahl..........wake up....polls do matter.  Thats the reason teams get in the playoffs and why some teams get shut out.

Though I'm the first to admit to being a little confused by the new D-II football tournament selection criteria, my understanding is that the regional rankings are the sole determinant of playoff participants. Those are calculated by the NCAA based on a published set of criteria that do not include any polls (unlike the BCS). Therefore, 3rd party polls, such as the d2football.com poll being discussed, are just novelties and bulletin board filler.

[WYOBISONMAN]

Like Jim said, the D2football.com poll is interesting, but does not have any effect on who makes it into the playoffs or not. It is the regional rankings that are key to the playoffs.

[UND92,96]

The top five are unchanged this week:

Midwest

1. North Dakota (8-1)

2. Emporia State (8-1)

3. Winona State (8-1)

4. Pittsburg State (8-1)

5. North Dakota State (7-2)

6. Central Missouri State (8-1)

7. Nebraska-Omaha (7-3)

8. Minnesota Duluth (7-2)

9. Concordia-St. Paul (7-2)

10. Missouri Western State (6-3)

[The Sicatoka]

Lost in this week's poll is the new #1 in the West Region.

[beersong]

NDSU is probably a big fan of Northern St. and tUMD to knock off Winona. I believe Northern plays Winona in the Metrodome this weekend and tUMD plays at Winona on the 15th. I know the Bulldogs can beat Winona - they have a new quarterback and have been clicking. I think Northern can beat Winona too - it will be very high scoring.

NDSU @ UND in the first round. Again?

[The Sicatoka]

They seed to avoid teams from the same conference playing in round one (except where impossible, meaning three from one conference).

[Bisonfan1234]

If Winona drops i think it will be NDSU-Empora, UND-Pittsburgh (2001 revenge time for Pitt??).

[WYOBISONMAN]

That sounds good to me. Then after the MIAA chaf is blown away we can get on with BISON-SIOUX II!!

(Damn....I am probably going to piss off the MIAA fans..... )

[Bisonfan1234]

North Dakota versus Kansas...who is the better state? Muahaha...

[CoteauRinkRat]

North Dakota versus Kansas...who is the better state? Muahaha...

let's not be counting any chickens before they hatch just yet.

[UND92,96]

The only thing certain at this point is that UND is in, and will likely host a first-round game.

I have to think Pitt St. is likely in regardless of whether they win or not next week, as the worst they can finish is 9-2. The only team ranked below them that could possibly jump over them would have been Central Mo., but since Pitt won at Central Mo. yesterday that is highly unlikely to happen now regardless of what happens next week.

Emporia is also likely in regardless, although it would be interesting to see what would happen if they were to lose next week at home to Central Mo. Emporia would still have a considerable strength of schedule advantage over Central Mo., but they would have the same overall record and Central would have a head-to-head advantage. However, since Emporia is ranked so high in the region right now, I have to think that 9-2 (if they were to lose next week) would get them in, particularly since they won AT Pitt St.

Winona is in if they beat Duluth in Winona next week, but if UMD were to win they may very well be in instead. It would be hard to believe considering their early-season loss to USD and a blowout to Northern St., but I have to think that even a two-loss NSIC team will get in the playoffs this year. Are they better than NDSU and UNO (or St. Cloud or SDSU for that matter)? No, but politics will not allow a three-loss NCC team in over a two-loss NSIC team.

If Pitt, Emporia and Winona all win next week as expected, I would expect Pitt at UND and Winona at Emporia, unless somehow the rankings get jumbled between now and then.

[PCM]

No matter what happens from here on, it was a terrific rebound season for the Sioux. It's also been one hell of a season that will always be remembered by the fans for sheer excitement.

Congratulations to Coach Lennon, his staff and all the Sioux players. Well done!

[Brent_Bobyck]

Sicatoka, HAHAHAHAA! I only asked you what you meant. What we got here is a failure to communicate.

Look at it from my perspective: you quoted me and then (it seemed to me) implied that, contrary to somebody's (whose?) opinion, UND's non-conference schedule wasn't the worst in the region. I wanted to know whether you thought I had said something like that. Your style of expressing yourself puts a burden on your readers, for they are forced to extrapolate your meaning from hazy implication and a series of smiley face icons

I clarified my opinion: UND's non-conference schedule is the weakest in the conference. For example, what would happen if Montana played Mesa, UC Davis played Newberry, and Tusculum played Crookston? Ugly as those games would be, the the NCAA might end up calculating that UND's schedule is comparable (or even better) than NDSU's... IMO, they'd get a more fair rating by averaging existing computer rankings. As always with DII, the stress is not on fairness but on evening the playing field by putting bad teams into the playoffs at the expense of good teams.

DII thinking: Your team is getting spanked in the playoffs? Well it's because the other teams are offering too many scholarships. Here, let's cut them by 5! Your team still losing? Let's cut them by 4 more! Strong teams from the same conference meeting in the championship game? Let's put them in the same bracket and have them play in the first two rounds. Still not happy? Let's move the MIAA and NCC into the same region! Still not happy? Let's put 20 teams in the playoffs, come up with a rating system that defies logic, and then shuffle the regions to make sure the weakest conferences are grouped together. If you're still not happy (and nothing short of being given a national championship will do that), we'll cut scholarships again this winter. Note: Just so you know - I'm not angry about this (don't read it with the angry voice). I think it's kind of funny.

The beauty for you and UND about the non-conference schedule debate is that it doesn't really matter - it's just something to bicker about while we wait for the big game. If UND wins the games they should and they take care of business at home, they will get into the playoffs regardless of their strength of schedule, or lack thereof, and they will have a conference championship to boot.

"Blah Blah Blah......NDSU lost on Saturday and are out of the playoffs.....Blah Blah Blah"

[UND92,96]

No matter what happens from here on, it was a terrific rebound season for the Sioux. It's also been one hell of a season that will always be remembered by the fans for sheer excitement.

Congratulations to Coach Lennon, his staff and all the Sioux players. Well done!

I agree completely. The cast of characters was largely the same as last year, but an improved work ethic and sense of purpose, not to mention a favorable home schedule, resulted in a huge turnaround.

For those interested in statistics, John Bowenkamp set a UND single-season record for passing yardage and completion percentage, and had the second-most td passes ever for a season. He's got to be one of the most improved players in the conference.

Also, this makes six NCC titles (three outright, three shared) in the past 11 years.

[UND92,96]

Again, not much change from the past few weeks:

Midwest

1. North Dakota (9-1)

2. Emporia State (9-1)

3. Winona State (9-1)

4. Pittsburg State (9-1)

5. North Dakota State (7-3)

6. Central Missouri State (8-2)

7. Nebraska-Omaha (8-3)

8. Minnesota Duluth (8-2)

9. Concordia-St. Paul (8-2)

10. Missouri Western State (7-3)

[UND Fan]

I am surprised that SU stayed at No. 5 - although that is probably where they deserve to be!

[UND92,96]

I am surprised that SU stayed at No. 5 - although that is probably where they deserve to be!

There really wasn't anybody who had much of a case for jumping over them since Central Mo. lost and NDSU owns a head-to-head win over UNO. I think the committee has kind of put itself in a potentially awkward position regarding the NSIC, however. If UMD wins, they'll probably end up jumping all the way up to number 4 (or else the national committee will do it for them like they supposedly did in 2001 with Winona getting the nod over Central Mo.) I can almost guarantee that the NSIC will get a bid one way or the other.