2009 NHL PLAYOFFS

[Snake]

Of course I think before I start typing, and what I typed makes perfect sense to me. Anybody who assaults another human being deserves to be on the receiving end of a massive beatdown. The only time I condone violence is in retaliation for something done to hurt somebody outside of the context of a contact sport. If you don't agree, so be it. Get over it and accept the fact that I have some opinions that are not the same as yours. This just in... the rest of the world doesn't think exactly like you do. Deal with it.

Question - Does the "context" of the game only consist of when the puck is in play or does it include the time after the whistle? Or, is it defined by the rule book? How do you define the "context" of the game?

[Goon]

Question - Does the "context" of the game only consist of when the puck is in play or does it include the time after the whistle? Or, is it defined by the rule book? How do you define the "context" of the game?

If I read dave right it's ok to slash your opponent on the way back to bench after the game is over.

[Goon]

You're missing the point. What Derek Boogard does, in my opinion, is far more bush league than the stuff you always cry about. You're entitled to your opinion, but you must understand that sometimes other people are going to have an opinion that is different than yours. I stand by my original point that the Penguins didn't do anything in Game 5 that I have crusaded against in the past.

You're dead wrong, I would place a wager that I am more of the norm and you're opinion is more fringe. Derek Boogard plays with honor and has more honor than the gutless puke that you idolize.

[Redneksioux]

Question - Does the "context" of the game only consist of when the puck is in play or does it include the time after the whistle? Or, is it defined by the rule book? How do you define the "context" of the game?

I think you should ask him for his opinion on context rather than his definition.

[sprig]

Actually, no it isn't. Within the context of the game is what goes down while the puck is in play and the clock running. Stuff that happens while the clock is stopped is outside of the context of the game.

Note that both McSorley's and Bertuzzi's cheap attacks happened with the clock running.

[Ray77]

Note that both McSorley's and Bertuzzi's cheap attacks happened with the clock running.

And most fights start with the clock running. So only the very start of fights are OK (within the context of the game) but once the clock stops they are not OK. The Bertuzzi incident was OK because he never dropped his gloves. Even as he pounced on Moore from behind he kept his gloves on.

As for the McSorley incident...slashing happens within the "context of the game", don't you know? DaveK already said that if I did that to him while playing he would get over it.

[Goon]

I think you should ask him for his opinion on context rather than his definition.

Ah he would just get all twisted up in knots trying to explain it.

[Goon]

An opiniom is not right or wrong, it is just an opinion.

Ok what ever you can have your FLAWED opinion.

[Goon]

And most fights start with the clock running. So only the very start of fights are OK (within the context of the game) but once the clock stops they are not OK. The Bertuzzi incident was OK because he never dropped his gloves. Even as he pounced on Moore from behind he kept his gloves on.

Sounds a lot like the Brian "the hack" Shack incident.

[sprig]

Those are two examples of dirty plays, but 99% of the stuff that gets labeled as dirty is just really not worth whining about IMHO.

Hacking an opponent on his injured foot, where does that land in the world according to DaveK. The clock was running, but it was a Pen doing it.

[Goon]

Okay, good luck with your flat earth society.

It is nothing to do with flat earth, what you a hippy?

Flat earth! Give me a break.

[sprig]

It is nothing to do with flat earth, what you a hippy?

Flat earth! Give me a break.

Dave used to live on his own flat earth; but he fell off the edge at some time.

[redwing77]

Yeah, please don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that I like the thugs that all they do is fight, either. I can't stand when a player delivers a clean, hard check and then someone on the other team feels the need to challenge them to a fight. However, I do believe that fighting does have a place in the game. When Jarome Iginla drops the gloves - I love it. He's dropping them for a reason...

Precisely.

It's why I can't stand this "code" crap. Yes, there is a "code" to a degree, but not to the degree that it is done in today's hockey. Right now the code is of two parts:

Part 1: Don't blindside a player. Make some sort of attempt to ask if they wished to drop the gloves or warn them of your intention to fight if at all possible. If they do not wish to fight, or at any time wishes the fight to cease before the officials intervene, or falls to the ice, you are to assume the fight has ended and skate immediately to the penalty box to serve the appropriate time as dictated by the rules and by the officials (this would include an instigator penalty should that be assessed...though really, it's hard to get an instigator penalty if both fighters agree to drop the gloves).

Part 2: In the event that a disservice has been done to a teammember not normally considered to drop the gloves, thou shalt attempt to complete Part 1 as soon as opportunity allows.

Part 2 is what is currently wrong with Cherry's so called "code."

Unfortunately, the officials have to have more of a role in all of this. Fighting has gone down over the years the "New" NHL has been out (IIRC) and that has actually been GOOD for the game. However, the officials have to catch up. With less fighting and less allowable clutch and grab, more official presence will have to be felt to dictate the proper discipline and decorum of the game.

Also, I applaud your use of Jerome Iginla. He's the epitomy of what an enforcer should be. If next season Iginla decided that he would no longer, for any circumstances, drop the gloves, he'd still be a valuable asset to his team because he can score goals. Scott Stevens, despite his reputation at times during his career, was another example. He dropped the gloves, too. However, if he didn't do it, he would still be a hall of fame caliber defenseman because he was a stellar defenseman in the role he played. Fighting was part of the game for Iginla and Stevens. It isn't the ONLY part of the game for them (unlike Scott Parker and Derek Boogaard).

I think all cheap acts are worth noting, though. Why? Not because of what other fans think (gives us a chance to whine, whatever) but rather because of two things:

1. Cheap acts affect the safety of the game, if not disrupts it entirely by causing injury.

2. If cheap acts are allowed to happen without officials stepping in, it could reoccur or even, worse, escalate.

This is one of the reasons why I'm so appalled at the lack of quality officiating in the NHL Finals. If McCreary and crew set the tone in Game 1, there is NO WAY that Datsyuk gets slashed in Game 5. NO WAY. Both of these teams are quite skilled and smart (for the most part). If the tone was set in Game 1, that slash would certainly have been called (I'm assuming it wasn't as I missed that part of the game). The Cooke elbow in Game 1 would have been called. Bylsma would have been livid with his players for taking such stupid penalties. Babcock would be pissed at Holmstrom and so on as well.

I still say that even the worst NHL official is better than 80% of what the WCHA has on staff. Heck, the argument could be made that USHL officials are better than WCHA officials (case in point: Last season two USHL officials made their NHL officiating debuts. When was the last time a WCHA official called an NHL game?)

Anyways, I'm ranting.

[82SiouxGuy]

You claimed that your opinion is "the norm" and implied that because of that it automatically makes you right. Before Christopher Columbus proved otherwise, "the norm" used to believe that the earth was flat. Therefore, your believing that being in "the norm" makes you right puts you on par with those who used to believe that the earth is flat.

Geez, I can't believe that analogy went so far over your head that I had to explain it to you.

Goon, can't you understand that DaveK is a visionary? He sees the future of the NHL and all of hockey. He understands things that mere mortals like most of us on this forum just can't comprehend. He is wise beyond his years and his place on this planet. Some day he will be remembered as the discoverer of a brave new world of hockey. Why do you have such a problem understanding that?

[Big A HG]

You claimed that your opinion is "the norm" and implied that because of that it automatically makes you right. Before Christopher Columbus proved otherwise, "the norm" used to believe that the earth was flat. Therefore, your believing that being in "the norm" makes you right puts you on par with those who used to believe that the earth is flat.

Geez, I can't believe that analogy went so far over your head that I had to explain it to you.

Well, if you believe Christopher Columbus proved the earth was flat, you have a mistaken viewpoint of that age. Either way, it wasn't even Columbus (well, his name wasn't even Columbus, but rather Col

[Goon]

Goon, can't you understand that DaveK is a visionary? He sees the future of the NHL and all of hockey. He understands things that mere mortals like most of us on this forum just can't comprehend. He is wise beyond his years and his place on this planet. Some day he will be remembered as the discoverer of a brave new world of hockey. Why do you have such a problem understanding that?

Yeah and I got some Devils Lake, ND beach property for you.

[Goon]

You claimed that your opinion is "the norm" and implied that because of that it automatically makes you right. Before Christopher Columbus proved otherwise, "the norm" used to believe that the earth was flat. Therefore, your believing that being in "the norm" makes you right puts you on par with those who used to believe that the earth is flat.

Geez, I can't believe that analogy went so far over your head that I had to explain it to you.

You have been PWND again DaveK. You must have aspirations of being a politician because you get yourself so twisted up that you paint yourself into a corner.

[stickboy1956]

It seems like the comments supporting/defending rough/cheap play revolve around the teams/players you are fan's of. Sidney bashers and Red Wing fan's take one side, Pen fans take the other.

For all of you - how would you compare what Sid did to what Prpich did in Dever a few years ago? Is all stickwork created equal?

I think everyone needs to relax and enjoy game 6.

[redwing77]

It seems like the comments supporting/defending rough/cheap play revolve around the teams/players you are fan's of. Sidney bashers and Red Wing fan's take one side, Pen fans take the other.

For all of you - how would you compare what Sid did to what Prpich did in Dever a few years ago? Is all stickwork created equal?

I think everyone needs to relax and enjoy game 6.

I don't remember what I thought of it at the time, so what I'm about to say could be hypocritical of me:

But yeah, I thought it was cheap.

Then again, I thought Don Adam helped facilitate the injury to Bina. This whole process, cheap as it certainly is, demonstrates why it is so important to have competent officials on the ice in every game. If justice isn't served, which it clearly wasn't, then the players start to police themselves.

So, yeah, Prpich speared Paukovich and should have been assessed a 5 and a match, if not a dq. But Paukovich's season should have been over after the hit on Bina. So... it's in the past now. Don Adam wasn't punished for his incompetence. And safety is still a growing concern in the WCHA.

[sprig]

Then again, I thought Don Adam helped facilitate the injury to Bina. This whole process, cheap as it certainly is, demonstrates why it is so important to have

So, yeah, Prpich speared Paukovich and should have been assessed a 5 and a match, if not a dq. But Paukovich's season should have been over after the hit on Bina. So... it's in the past now. Don Adam wasn't punished for his incompetence. And safety is still a growing concern in the WCHA.

If, except for the college rules, Matt Greene could have dropped with Punko on the spot, the future Prpich spear would not have happened. and things would have been taken care of immediately. Which is why most of us think dropping them is a much better solution than later using your stick as a weapon, with intent to injure.

[Goon]

I don't remember what I thought of it at the time, so what I'm about to say could be hypocritical of me:

But yeah, I thought it was cheap.

Then again, I thought Don Adam helped facilitate the injury to Bina. This whole process, cheap as it certainly is, demonstrates why it is so important to have competent officials on the ice in every game. If justice isn't served, which it clearly wasn't, then the players start to police themselves.

So, yeah, Prpich speared Paukovich and should have been assessed a 5 and a match, if not a dq. But Paukovich's season should have been over after the hit on Bina. So... it's in the past now. Don Adam wasn't punished for his incompetence. And safety is still a growing concern in the WCHA.

We all know that the reffing in the WCHA is not all that good. After watching the NHL during the Stanley Cup Playoffs, the reffing has been brutal as well. Collin Cambpell has been very inconsistant in his rulings. In the NHL the instigator penality is the reason we have all of this face wash b.s. and stick work B.S. In college one can make the argument that it's the progressive DQ rule and anti-fighing rules. You take the DQ rule out of college hockey and Paukovich probably doesn't make that check or if he does he would have gotten an immediate beat down from some one on the Sioux Bench, or at least he deserved one. Pauko's check on Bina was the dirtest play I have seen in the last 5 years.

[Siouxdonyms]

The Prpich spear was 100 times more acceptable than a fight. I find it silly all this talk about using a stick as a eapon with intent to injure. What do you think a fist to the face is? It is a weapon with intent to injure. I would much rather get hit by a stick in an area where I have padding than to receive some neanderthal's fist to my face. You've never seen anybody get their nose broken or teeth knocked out because they got slashed. Unless these sticks are being swung at somebody's head I just don't see any reason for people to get their panties in a bunch. They have padding in the areas where they are being hit, everything is going to be okay.

Yet in a fight, 9.9 out of 10 times, both players agree to fight, thus they know what they're getting themselves into. Over the years, I've seen numerous players sustain injuries from stick work, and what seem to be an unintentional injury. 1998, Jason Blake skates hard to the corner and slashes his stick down, in what looks like he's just trying to knock the puck away from the Gopher player. Hits the Gopher in the hand, and if I recall correctly, broke some fingers. Yet the hand was padded with the glove. Numerous more incidents like this. If a player doesn't agree with fighting, they choose not to fight! Don't say you'll go with someone, and then skate away after they've dropped the gloves. So, since you would choose not to fight, I'm sure you would be complaining your a$$ off if you got speared by an opposing player. Yes Dave, fighting is dangerous, but the guys who fight choose to fight, thus they know the risk they put on the line. Call it a neanderthal act, which it may be, but it's a choice they make. Happens all the time in the real world too. Fighting isn't allowed in basketball or football, but they still happen. Personally, I think the basketball players look like a bunch of school girls swinging away with slaps. You choose not to fight. I would be right beside you not fighting. My choice. But who am I to say that they can't fight. It's their choice and they'll suffer whatever consequences for their actions.

[Goon]

You're so delusional it is beyond belief. If you think that being in "the norm" makes you right, then good for you. I know better, but you go on believing whatever makes you feel good. I could care less.

I am not delusional I am just friggen right. (bam, pwnded again!!!)

[Goon]

You're so delusional it is beyond belief. If you think that being in "the norm" makes you right, then good for you. I know better, but you go on believing whatever makes you feel good. I could care less.

Yet you keep responding so you can get the last word. Whew...

[Ray77]

The Prpich spear was 100 times more acceptable than a fight. I find it silly all this talk about using a stick as a eapon with intent to injure. What do you think a fist to the face is? It is a weapon with intent to injure. I would much rather get hit by a stick in an area where I have padding than to receive some neanderthal's fist to my face. You've never seen anybody get their nose broken or teeth knocked out because they got slashed. Unless these sticks are being swung at somebody's head I just don't see any reason for people to get their panties in a bunch. They have padding in the areas where they are being hit, everything is going to be okay.

You are out of your gord.