MplsBison Posted February 6, 2009 Posted February 6, 2009 First of all I don't think anyone should give their opinion unless they know Mr. Kelley or were there for the situation. I think many of you have forgot that the media makes it seem as worse as possible and is often incorrect. He did not beat someone to death... He punched a kid who was wearing GLASSES in the face, who from what I have been hearing was holding HIM down. I'm not saying what he did was okay... but the poor kids record is blank, and it was most likely a huge mistake. If this is the situation then I am forced to conclude that a felony criminal charge is rediculus. Obviously the city prosecuters have a hard on for charging football players and wanted to make an example out of him.
perspective2009 Posted February 6, 2009 Posted February 6, 2009 First of all I don’t think anyone should give their opinion unless they know Mr. Kelley or were there for the situation. I think many of you have forgot that the media makes it seem as worse as possible and is often incorrect. He did not beat someone to death... He punched a kid who was wearing GLASSES in the face, who from what I have been hearing was holding HIM down. I’m not saying what he did was okay... but the poor kids record is blank, and it was most likely a huge mistake. I agree 100%. If you knew the guy you would understand that his emotional scars from this will last far longer than any of those involved will ever imagine. His 20 years before that night and 60 or more years after that night will define who he really is. Trust me, although not perfect, he is a good guy. As a side note... I hope University President Robert Kelley follows through on his "ZERO TOLERANCE" policy. The UND has a record of about 300 alcohol/drug related incidents a year ON campus. Can anyone honestly tell me none of those incidents ever involve a fight/violence? I sure hope the University's judicial system treat those "perpetrators" in the same manner as they have Brad Kelley!
MplsBison Posted February 7, 2009 Posted February 7, 2009 I agree 100%. If you knew the guy you would understand that his emotional scars from this will last far longer than any of those involved will ever imagine. His 20 years before that night and 60 or more years after that night will define who he really is. Trust me, although not perfect, he is a good guy. As a side note... although he made a huge mistake that night, I hope University President Robert Kelley follows through on his "ZERO TOLERANCE" policy. The UND has a record of about 300 alcohol/drug related incidents a year ON campus. Can anyone honestly tell me none of those incidents ever involved a fight/violence? I sure hope the University's judicial system treat those "perpetrators" in the same manner. Zero tolerance or zero logic?
Stromer Posted February 7, 2009 Posted February 7, 2009 I agree 100%. If you knew the guy you would understand that his emotional scars from this will last far longer than any of those involved will ever imagine. His 20 years before that night and 60 or more years after that night will define who he really is. Trust me, although not perfect, he is a good guy. As a side note... I hope University President Robert Kelley follows through on his "ZERO TOLERANCE" policy. The UND has a record of about 300 alcohol/drug related incidents a year ON campus. Can anyone honestly tell me none of those incidents ever involve a fight/violence? I sure hope the University's judicial system treat those "perpetrators" in the same manner as they have Brad Kelley! I think the part where he punched 2 UND res hall members is prob why this became so big. A fight between 2 people is nothing to ge excited for on its own. Start messing around with RA's and the such and there is bound to be trouble.
und5 Posted February 7, 2009 Posted February 7, 2009 RA's that obviously were alot smaller than a linebacker and didn't have the right training to be dealing with and holding down an obviously upset drunk person..
The Sicatoka Posted February 7, 2009 Posted February 7, 2009 Did I just read an "everybody does it" defense in this? People forget: RAs are university employees doing a (not a lot of fun always) job. I hope President Kelley steps in now and every time someone messes with a University employee. That's a big key in this situation (from UND's perspective) I'm sure. You have to have the back of those RAs (from getting punched) and you can't favor athletes. Let's go to root cause: Minor + Alcohol consumption. The rest followed.
MplsBison Posted February 7, 2009 Posted February 7, 2009 Did I just read an "everybody does it" defense in this? People forget: RAs are university employees doing a (not a lot of fun always) job. I hope President Kelley steps in now and every time someone messes with a University employee. That's a big key in this situation (from UND's perspective) I'm sure. You have to have the back of those RAs (from getting punched) and you can't favor athletes. Let's go to root cause: Minor + Alcohol consumption. The rest followed. Good analysis on the root cause! No doubt that the instant you turn 21, you automatically transform into a responsible alcohol user!
und5 Posted February 7, 2009 Posted February 7, 2009 I think the part where he punched 2 UND res hall members is prob why this became so big. A fight between 2 people is nothing to ge excited for on its own. Start messing around with RA's and the such and there is bound to be trouble. RA's messing with him you mean... story says they followed him. they are RA's, catching people for drinking in dorm rooms and wandering the halls.. not trained police, and to keep considering them "university employees", that makes it sound like a professor.
BringDeanBack Posted February 7, 2009 Posted February 7, 2009 RA's messing with him you mean... story says they followed him. they are RA's, catching people for drinking in dorm rooms and wandering the halls.. not trained police, and to keep considering them "university employees", that makes it sound like a professor. What do you think there job is? Too enforce housing rules on the UND campus, one of which is no alcohol and another being no beating people up. I doubt that the RA's had handcuffs and mace and were trying to make an arrest when Kelley assaulted them. They more than likely were just following him so they could report his position to UND police when they showed up. And yes, they are University employees. So it's ok to beat up a university employee as long as they are below the level of professor? Right. This kid needs to stay in MPLS and join the UFC, not play Sioux football.
perspective2009 Posted February 7, 2009 Posted February 7, 2009 Did I just read an "everybody does it" defense in this? People forget: RAs are university employees doing a (not a lot of fun always) job. I hope President Kelley steps in now and every time someone messes with a University employee. That's a big key in this situation (from UND's perspective) I'm sure. You have to have the back of those RAs (from getting punched) and you can't favor athletes. Let's go to root cause: Minor + Alcohol consumption. The rest followed. I don't believe an athlete, or non-athlete for that matter, should get special treatment. I do believe, however, that those who are in the public eye have more scrutiny placed upon them and are sometimes "made examples". None of us can read the mind of the DA who decided upon these charges. All we can do is be fair to all of those involved and wait to see what the evidence shows. Although our laws are written in black and white, we have judicial system that is not.
und5 Posted February 8, 2009 Posted February 8, 2009 What do you think there job is? Too enforce housing rules on the UND campus, one of which is no alcohol and another being no beating people up. I doubt that the RA's had handcuffs and mace and were trying to make an arrest when Kelley assaulted them. They more than likely were just following him so they could report his position to UND police when they showed up. And yes, they are University employees. So it's ok to beat up a university employee as long as they are below the level of professor? Right. This kid needs to stay in MPLS and join the UFC, not play Sioux football. Story heard the RA brought HIM into Walsh.. so your more than likely is wrong. And they were holding him down when they were assaulted. and UFC? Right. Once again he didnt beat someone.. he punched them once in the face.. have you ever seen hockey? They fight right on the ice.
homer Posted February 8, 2009 Posted February 8, 2009 Story heard the RA brought HIM into Walsh.. so your more than likely is wrong. And they were holding him down when they were assaulted. and UFC? Right. Once again he didnt beat someone.. he punched them once in the face.. have you ever seen hockey? They fight right on the ice. Doesn't matter how bad he beat them up, bottom line is he struck a UND employee. I don't know the story but last time I checked RA's just don't hold someone down for no reason. Maybe someone was provoking him, maybe they weren't, I don't know. I'm sure it would have gotten sorted out when the campus police arrived. He made a poor choice striking the RA's before they got there and thats the unfortunate part. I feel bad for him but when something like that happens you really leave the administration no choice but to dismiss you. I'm glad the coaches did this and pretty soon the players need to understand that they can't do this sh*t. This is two huge blackeyes in two years for the program and these guys need to go to make a point that this stuff isn't going to be tolerated.
siouxperstar135 Posted February 10, 2009 Posted February 10, 2009 referring to robert stroup as the first black eye. he was cleared of most of the charges i believe and they found out the girl as lying about most of the incident
DI IN FARGO Posted February 10, 2009 Posted February 10, 2009 BringDeanBack is right, fists can be lethal weapons. I think it's disgusting for anybody to use their fists to intentionally damage another person's face. It's just sickening beyond belief. Maybe the Bison will give this Kelley character another chance, I don't have any interest in ever seeing him in a Sioux uniform again after what he did. Just curious how you can say that and yet condone or support a sport that whether you like it or not is engrained in said sport? Not trying to be smacky and I know you are talking about a serious issue here with the football player but just how is it any different if it's done on the ice in Hockey? Please help a non hockey fan understand the difference if there is any? I don't see how there can be but I'd like to see or hear the Hockey fans take on this?
homer Posted February 10, 2009 Posted February 10, 2009 referring to robert stroup as the first black eye. he was cleared of most of the charges i believe and they found out the girl as lying about most of the incident He made a plea agreement to get the charges dropped but that is besides the point. This is two offseasons in a row where it has been in the papers and on the news about a UND football player involved in a physical dispute. I know it happens but the players have to hold themselves to a higher standard and understand that they themselves are not bigger than the program.
choyt3 Posted February 10, 2009 Posted February 10, 2009 Just curious how you can say that and yet condone or support a sport that whether you like it or not is engrained in said sport? Not trying to be smacky and I know you are talking about a serious issue here with the football player but just how is it any different if it's done on the ice in Hockey? Please help a non hockey fan understand the difference if there is any? I don't see how there can be but I'd like to see or hear the Hockey fans take on this? Seriously? You have no idea the can of worms you're opening here. Better grab me some popcorn...
perspective2009 Posted February 10, 2009 Posted February 10, 2009 Just curious how you can say that and yet condone or support a sport that whether you like it or not is engrained in said sport? Not trying to be smacky and I know you are talking about a serious issue here with the football player but just how is it any different if it's done on the ice in Hockey? Please help a non hockey fan understand the difference if there is any? I don't see how there can be but I'd like to see or hear the Hockey fans take on this? I don't know ND's state laws, but the state I live in recently made a change to it's state law. In the past, an officer could decide whether or not to make an arrest based on the circumstances. The law was changed so that if any visible mark is seen the officer is now required to make an arrest for assault. This has increased our states assault arrests tremendously.
UND92,96 Posted February 10, 2009 Author Posted February 10, 2009 I don't mean to pile onto Stroup, but if you search his name here, it looks like he has a trial coming up in Fargo for a different incident (simple assault).
DI IN FARGO Posted February 10, 2009 Posted February 10, 2009 Seriously? You have no idea the can of worms you're opening here. Better grab me some popcorn... No I'm serious, it's a serious question not intended to be smacky and I apologize for straying from the original thread topic. Admin if you want to split this out into it's own thread I'd be very interested to read the comments and replies. Thanks
dakotadan Posted February 10, 2009 Posted February 10, 2009 No I'm serious, it's a serious question not intended to be smacky and I apologize for straying from the original thread topic. Admin if you want to split this out into it's own thread I'd be very interested to read the comments and replies. Thanks Maybe you should have researched DaveK's stance on fighting in college hockey before you brought up his quote as a lame smack attempt at college hockey.
DI IN FARGO Posted February 10, 2009 Posted February 10, 2009 Maybe you should have researched DaveK's stance on fighting in college hockey before you brought up his quote as a lame smack attempt at college hockey. It's not a lame smack attempt at hockey it's a legit question. If you have an answer as to how it's different or OK to have fighing in hockey that would in any other event be a violation of the law please explain it to me I'd love to hear it. I have never understood how fighting was acceptable in hockey. If you don't have a legit response don't bother with another smacky comment this was posed in this forum for obvious reasons. I don't see any difference myself but obviously hard core hockey fans do and I would like to understand why they feel its justifiable.
homer Posted February 10, 2009 Posted February 10, 2009 It's not a lame smack attempt at hockey it's a legit question. If you have an answer as to how it's different or OK to have fighing in hockey that would in any other event be a violation of the law please explain it to me I'd love to hear it. I have never understood how fighting was acceptable in hockey. If you don't have a legit response don't bother with another smacky comment this was posed in this forum for obvious reasons. I don't see any difference myself but obviously hard core hockey fans do and I would like to understand why they feel its justifiable. How come you can box in a ring and not on the street? How come football players can run over a qb from the blindside but can't wipe out a guy walking acroos the street? Its part of the game. You know its part of the sport you are competing in. Thats why some people play these sports, because things are allowed that you can't do on the street or you will get arrested and punished. Pretty obvious answer. Its justifiable cause its in the rules. We didn't write them so go ask the guy who did for your justifiable answer.
DI IN FARGO Posted February 10, 2009 Posted February 10, 2009 How come you can box in a ring and not on the street? How come football players can run over a qb from the blindside but can't wipe out a guy walking acroos the street? Its part of the game. You know its part of the sport you are competing in. Thats why some people play these sports, because things are allowed that you can't do on the street or you will get arrested and punished. Pretty obvious answer. Its justifiable cause its in the rules. We didn't write them so go ask the guy who did for your justifiable answer. Ok, Football doesn't have fighting in it not the likes of Hockey and if something on the order of people punching each other was to happen in Football there would be consequences off the field that those players would be facing in either enforcement by the law and association they played in/for. Boxing IMHO is a poor example as by it's very nature those entering the sport know that the purpose of boxing is to score points by hitting the opponent and ultimately knocking him out. Whether you agree or not on the rules of boxing or that its a socially acceptable sport is altogether another discussion. Hockey on the other hand is supposed to as I understand it be a sport where skating skill and puck handling skills along with scoring are the objectives yet fighting is engrained and accepted as "part of the sport" which is where I am coming from. Why is it "part of the sport" and acceptable. Just curious.
homer Posted February 10, 2009 Posted February 10, 2009 Ok, Football doesn't have fighting in it not the likes of Hockey and if something on the order of people punching each other was to happen in Football there would be consequences off the field that those players would be facing in either enforcement by the law and association they played in/for. Boxing IMHO is a poor example as by it's very nature those entering the sport know that the purpose of boxing is to score points by hitting the opponent and ultimately knocking him out. Whether you agree or not on the rules of boxing or that its a socially acceptable sport is altogether another discussion. Hockey on the other hand is supposed to as I understand it be a sport where skating skill and puck handling skills along with scoring are the objectives yet fighting is engrained and accepted as "part of the sport" which is where I am coming from. Why is it "part of the sport" and acceptable. Just curious. I see your point but I believe that the penalties and game suspensions are the consequences they and their team suffer. Its the punishment they recieve. Baseball is similar when a batter charges the mound, fight happens, players get kicked out and suspended but the law doesn't step in. Is that acceptable in your mind because thats part of that sport. If a player on your team gets beaned, retaliation is expected. Like I said, it was around long before I was. I could try and change it for you if you'd like but don't think I'd get to far. Don't really know what you are looking for here. Can we get this thread back on track or let it die. The incident involving Kelley concerning the UND football team is taken care of.
LeftyZL Posted February 11, 2009 Posted February 11, 2009 It is not acceptable and it is not part of the sport. If it was a part of the sport the clock would continue to run when it happens. There is virtually no difference between what Kelley did and a hockey player using his fists to damage an opponent's face to the point of reconstructive surgery. Both acts are equally sickening. Stop Repeating Yourself. Everyone knows you hate fighting in hockey and in life.
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