Jackrabbits aren't leaving just yet

[jimdahl]

My guess is that both teams (UND and NDSU) need the game enough that they'll overcome the current bickering about scheduling. I'd expect to see home/home arrangements rather than UND just going to Fargo for the payola (particularly given the current schedule's shortage of home games).

Today's Herald article about the NCC talks a bit about this:

A big problem will be football scheduling for the remaining seven NCC teams.

A question they face is whether to schedule the soon-to-be Division I-AA football programs at NDSU and SDSU.

Danenhauer said Nebraska-Omaha will not play NDSU next season. The Bison are allowed 63 football scholarships as a Division I-AA team, but it's not expected they'll be at that number next season.

The Nebraska-Omaha athletic director said it's too early to determine whether the Mavericks will play SDSU next fall.

The same holds true at UND.

"We'd like to continue playing those teams as long as it remains a fair battle," UND athletic director Roger Thomas said.

[star2city]

Today's Herald article about the NCC talks a bit about this:

Suffice it to say, the NCC is definitely not helped by SDSU

[star2city]

From the SDSU announcement, this quote may be the most revealing about SDSU's future and the whole conference search issue:

It is abundantly clear to us now, that without having committed to Division I, conference interest in our program for prospective membership would be minimal

Translation: no conference has been even remotely interested. The conferences might consider us after we make a commitment, but only on the conference

[star2city]

Here are two reactions to the SDSU announcement, one from the Aberdeen News and one from another forum

[BisonguyI]

star2city,

Why are you reading a wrestling forum? UND has not had a team in years. Having a negative article in Aberdeen is the same as all the negative press that came out of Grand Forks about NDSU's move.

Now that it comes out that a school must make the commitment about moving to DI before a conference will consider a school (I said that would have to be done), how will UND find a conference if they decide to move up? Wasn't it stated that UND would be sure to secure a conference before they would make the decision?

[tony]

Jim, I think that Thomas and Taylor are dickering, not bickering. I don't know what Thomas is trying to bargain for - he was extremely vague in the GF Herald article.

[star2city]

Why are you reading a wrestling forum? UND has not had a team in years.  Having a negative article in Aberdeen is the same as all the negative press that came out of Grand Forks about NDSU's move.

Bisonguy:

I guess the comments presented at the Mat Forums must have threatened you, like:

I heard Friday is the news conference for SDSU going D1. If that's the case, the AD is a lying moron. I thought SDSU wouldn't go without conference affiliation? Wasn't going to make the same premature move NDSU did, and leave before tying up that minor detail.

I hope Oien isn't doing this just to "keep up" with NDSU (as I've heard). Ooooh, they're gonna be D1 without a conference, me too, me too! At least NDSU has the cash to possibly make it work, ****.

or

It's official - SDSU is gone. They waited this long to make sure that the football players were in camp and couldn't back out. This may well be the last season for Liles. It's really sad to read the lies given by Oien about the support from the students and boosters. SDSU was a great Div II program and should have stayed there longer until they built up the resources to land on their feet better.

Otherwise why would you attack the messenger?

BTW, the writer in the Aberdeen paper was an SDSU grad.

[star2city]

Now that it comes out that a school must make the commitment about moving to DI before a conference will consider a school (I said that would have to be done), how will UND find a conference if they decide to move up? Wasn't it stated that UND would be sure to secure a conference before they would make the decision?

So I guess Cal-Davis does not count? Why should anything that Miller or Oien have to say on this subject be credible?

It is ironic that one week ago, the Indianapolis Star came out with this story after the new Mid-Con commissioner visited IUPUI: New Mid-Continent boss wants more exposure A key quote is:

In announcing Centenary's addition in October, (former commissioner) Steinbrecher said the league wanted at least 10 teams. (New commissioner) Bertovich said expansion is no longer a mandate.

"It's in discussion, but there is no formal plan," he said. "I'm a firm believer that there is no magic number. If we have 'x' number of members and they're all stable, go make it work."

This morning there was a quote in an article by Kolpack that conflicts with the Indianpolis Star's article:

It

[BisonMav]

Congratualations, and all the best to South Dakota State on their move to Division I athletics.

[DamStrait]

As I've stated before, DII is falling apart. The problem is, DI isn't exactly welcoming new members in with open arms, no matter how non-threatening they may be to current DI media markets. The solution? A DI NCC. It is imperative that it be given serious reconsideration now. It solves scheduling, funding, rivalry and post-season problems. United we stand, divided we fall (into a long period of increasing oblivion). Obviously, there are barriers to be overcome, but as I see it, it's the only way out for the 5-6 NCC schools that need to go DI.

[Bison_Kent]

I agree that D2 is not what it used to be. All the top teams have or are starting the process of going to Division I. As far as NDSU and SDSU being the lame ducks of DI, that will never happen. I will admit that in the provitial period many conferences will not look at us because it would hurt their RPI and chances of getting a second team in the NCAA 65 team tournament. But when those probation years are over there will be many conference looking at NDSU and SDSU. I velieve four years are the probationary period that we will have look at getting through.

Divsion I regualations will not get any easier and most likely will be even tougher in future years. But I like the rules. These are the type of rules that DII should have implimented 10-15 years ago and there would have been very few teams moving up and probably would not have the DII teams moving up as we do now.

I guess you can summerize if you want to stay on a sinking ship stay in DII. To get off the sinking ship, you have to go on a life boat. It may take a few years to see the impact of the jump but eventially it will be there.

[DamStrait]

Bison Kent,

Don't you think NDSU would be better off during their probation years as a part of a DI NCC? Don't you think that a DI NCC, after its members pass their probation, will have more clout with other conferences in arranging non-conference scheduling and in possibly becoming a part of another DI conference (for the purpose of becoming a 10 member conference, so that they may hold conference tournaments)? Yes, the next 4-5 years will be tough regardless, but why make them tougher than they have to be? Also, by going DI, revenue streams will have to increase. That will be hard to do if fan interest wanes. A DI NCC will help to keep fans interested.

[CRH]

Damstraight,

You keep talking about the best scenario would be for the majority of

the NCC move up as a group to D1 (Augustana) would never do it.. I don't think anyone disagrees with you that this would have been the best situation for everyone. In fact if you go back and see some of the comments by the SDSU,NDSU and UNC administrations and they were pleading for this to happen as you could control travel expense and a multitude of other costs and maintain those regional rivalries. I think in short order this could have become one of the best D1AA conferences in the country. The problem is clear the balance of the other schools feel they are already D1 via their hockey programs. They have no stomach for additional scholarships as they don't want to drain money from their cash cow and that is hockey. I know the Sioux Fans don't want to hear this but my feeling is either you go D1 all the way or you don't. I don't think you should be able to field a D1 program in one sport and not others. I still think the Sioux are one of the few NCC schools that will move up, but I'm doubtful based on comments I've seen that the other schools have any interest. Mankato and St. Cloud seem very quiet on the whole issue.

[DamStrait]

CRH,

Those in the NCC that need to go (IMHO) are: NDSU, SDSU, UND, UNO, & USD. UNC too, but they're already gone. Notice that I have not included MSU-M or SCSU. I don't do this out of spite, it's just that in MN, UMN will be king, and will brook no competition. Also SC is really just a suburb of the TC and Mankato is not big enough on its own to support a DI school so close to UMN, ISU and now SDSU. UNO is different because Omaha is a large enough media market, IMHO.

What went on between the administrations of NDSU, SDSU and UNC and the administrations of the other NCC schools? I don't know, I wasn't there. Maybe you were. If so, then I accept your characterization of the discussions. If not, then it's very possible that there were a wide range of positions. Some may have had no interest in moving up at all. Some may been willing to go if all agreed to go together. Still others may have felt it was a good idea, but that a well planned path needed first to be found, agreed to, and then implemented. As an outsider looking in, it is clear only that NDSU, SDSU, and UNC felt that they were ready and willing to move now, and that they were willing to do it alone, if necessary. I too think that UND will move up at some time. They appear to be putting themselves in position to do so without announcing that this is their intention. Why would they want to keep their intentions undisclosed? Maybe they want to keep their options open. Maybe they feel with recently opening two new facilities and plans to soon open a third that their plate is full now and they want to be able to give the issue the attention it deserves. I don't know, as I say, I am an outsider looking in. It is my opinion, however, that it is in the best interests of each of the schools mentioned above to move together. The window of opportunity to do so is rapidly shrinking. In order for it to happen, each of the schools must be willing to work towards it, putting aside any bad feelings that may have been created in earlier attempts. I wish I had influence to help make it happen, but I don't. Maybe one of you reading this board does. If so, I encourage you to do all you can to make it come to pass. I think it's that important.

[Riverman]

CRH,I agree about UMD(newbie) MSU-M,SCSU,UNO, They don't have the $$$. IMHO, think UNO could swing it but they are still new to D1 hockey.

UND would be crazy not to think about Movin' on Up. We play Crookston "yawn" what next Minot St. to replace SDSU? The gate $$$$$ is looking thinner all the time.

IMHO, Two years or until the NCAA shoots itself in the foot before UND makes the jump!(See D3-- No scholarships for moving one sport to D1) Ouch CC that's gotta hurt!!!

star2city,You nailed it! Sioux SI,Cable, Streaming video.Bison_Kent not bad for a little D2 school.

IMHO,I think the NCC is going to stay D2 and that soon as there is talk about adding a Crookston or a school like them to fill SDSU,NDSU's spot on the schedule,UND fans will not be happy.UND will leave the NCC far behind.I would say the Northern Sun Conf.(BSU &UMD-D1 Hockey) and NCC in the future are going to mirror each other way to much.And that a new Conf. will have to be formed.Which will put UND in a bind to move up.

Ah the wild card the NCAA, what will they think of all this jumping around?

[Bison_Kent]

I agree that the NCC DI option would be the best but it will never happen. NDSU waited one year to move up to DI hoping it would bring more time for other NCC teams to access their athletic programs and buildings. SDSU was the only one that followed us. I think NDSU was very generous in waiting a year to allow studies to be made at each of the remaining NCC schools.

UND, USD, the two Minnesota schools, and Nebraska-Omaha decided that DII was the place for them. A DI NCC (although would be the best) will never happen.

Five years from now, NDSU and SDSU will be fine schools in whatever conference they are in. I won't discount UND being part of that conference but any existing conference will most likely only choose two schools and will choose a team that has been in DI the longest as with the long DI transition period will hurt that conference's RPI.

UC-Davis (as was mentioned earlier) was in the right place at the right time. They are a state university that will be in all California Conference in the Big West. But most new DI schools have had to go through a couple of years of being an independent before getting into a conference.

[Riverman]

B_K,

IMHO, UND is taking the slow road. I am Ok with that they have two programs in D1 so they know the ropes and are not going into anything cold.

UND is shaking hands with Maine for home at home series in hockey.Correct me if I am wrong but isn't Maine a D1aa football playing school?

As I stated(IMHO) a NCC-NSIC Conf. Is probably on the horizon. B_K you can't honestly say NDSU is slamming the door. And wouldn't think about a new Plains Conf. should/if a few Ad's and University heads talk it out? And maybe agree to a few terms on how a NEW Conf. should work.

[Bison_Kent]

RiverMan,

I would like nothing more then to see a Plains Conference with maybe some teams from near where I am living now like Pittsburg State in Kansas, Northwest Missouri State, Central Oklahoma, and Northeastern State of Oklahoma. All of these schools are top DII schools now. Pitt St., NW Missouri State, and Central Oklahoma are great football schools. Central Oklahoma is also a top wrestling conference. Northwestern State won the DII basketball title last year. These along with NDSU, SDSU, N. Colorado, and UND would make for a great I-AA conference. It would be similar to the Big 12 as far as location. It would be right down the central portion of the country, all in the Plains states

But the fact is that most likely none of these other top DII schools have the revenue potential or facilities to be DI or DI-AA, at least not completely.

[The Sicatoka]

Are we sure that this football alliance meets the "conference" criteria as envisioned by the SD Board of Regents?

I don't know. I'm asking.

[tony]

I doubt that a football-only requirement would satisfy the Board of Regents. They might even might slap SDSU's administration down for doing this, but even then they'd at least give SDSU until the end of its exploratory year to find a conference.

[lawkota]

........but even then they'd at least give SDSU until the end of its exploratory year to find a conference.

Exactly. Which is why I think Miller and Oien couldn't have handled this any worse for SDSU. The "find a conference" requirement is a catch-22 because you can't market yourself to a DI conference until you've made a D-I decision (UCD was a unique case). Given the situation NDSU and SDSU were in, it makes sense to announce then use your exploratory year(s) to make headway towards a conference. If things don't progress as you'd planned or hoped, you have the option of moving back. I suspect a NCC founding member would be welcome back with open arms.

I still believe that NDSU handled this the right way and that SDSU's administration has embarassed itself by allowing the BOR to slap a condition on their jump and then ignoring that condition. SDSU should have announced last year; their noncommittal cost them credibility with conferences and by association, hurt NDSU as well. That's not to say that things won't fall into place for both schools by this time next year. I hope they do. I wish both the Jacks and the Bison good luck. I wish UND were joining them.

[Charger]

The BOR has given SDSU the go ahead to do whatever they want with athletics. They have full trust in Dr. Oien and President Miller and know they will do what's best for the school. I wish they would have announced they were going DI earlier as well so we could be further in our conference talks, but I think they are still progressing very well. It will be interesting to see if they are admitted to a conference before 2004.

[Charger]

One more thing. The poster on themat.com that goes by the alias "nccfan" is actually a usd fan. He tried the same thing on the SDSU board and was discovered. His opinions mean nothing..... like most things that come out of Vermillion.

[CRH]

I agree with Charger. The BOR are not going to step in at this point and reverse there decision. This is an

institutional decision at this point and BOR opinions and the individuals spewing negativity about Dr. Oien and Pres Miller are irrelevant as SDSU is moving up where we belong. Besides the makeup in the BOR is much

more pro SDSU than it was during last Decembers vote thanks to an SDSU grad in the govenors office. NCC Fan and Sikota should be more concerned about their own clubs are going to compete in the NCC than worrying about SDSU which has always been in a different league anyway.

[UND92,96]

NCC Fan and Sikota should be more concerned about their own clubs are  going to compete in the NCC than worrying about SDSU which has always been in a different league anyway.

What are you talking about?