Awesome Letter

[star2city]

I am Jewish and I think it would be hilarious.

Actually, I'm more for the Litigating Levites actually.

Perhaps the Marauding Maccabees?

The Rebellious Rabbis?

Then we can yell phrases like "Knock them on their tuchis!" And "Beat the goys!"

God forbid any Gentile player cheap shots a Fighting Jew! OY VEY! Such litigation!

Litigating Levites is actually close! Brandeis University, a Jewish University founded by Supreme Court Justice Louis Brandeis, has the nickname Judges, which can be taken both as the modern name or as the OT Judges (Samson, Gideon, Deborah etc).

[dead_rabbit]

I'm not racist. I have many friends who are caucasion. I work with caucasions. I admire and respect people like Einstein, Robert Devries, Bobby Knight, Dr. Seabloom and Dr. O'Rielly at UND. I have met many people of different races who I respect. I just feel very deeply that it's time the name be changed. I do not feel honored by the Fighting Sioux nickname. Actions speak louder than words. You say you are honoring me but would you give me the time of day if I asked for it? Let me tell you a story. About 10 years ago I was goin to Bismarck for a meeting. It was in march and the temp was in the 30's. About 5 miles past Steele my pickup gave out. I opened my hood had the flashers on but no one stopped. I walked 5 miles back to Steele without anyone giving me a ride on the interstate! Now I obviously look Native American but come on. Why wouldn't anyone give me a ride? How many of you have been to a rez? Have you ever been in the home of a NA? There are alot of contradictions in this matter. No answers either.

And chewey, you don't know what he was trying to say. Why do you automatically defend his statement? It's a downright ignorant statement and you know it.

I'm not going to say that you're racist, or that you aren't. But, having Caucasian friends doesn't mean that you are not racist. I bet Jeremiah Wright has many Caucasian friends, but that guy is definitely racist.

I have friends that are NA. I have been to a rez (several). I have been to NA friend's homes on and off of the rez. I don't pretend to know what it's like to be NA, but I do know that as long as NAs want to be victims, they will continue to be. Racism still exists in America, unfortunately. However, millions of people (black, Asian, Indian, Native Americans, Russians, Irish, Germans, Africans, Mexicans, Arabs, etc.) have overcome it. It seems that those that want to move on have, and those that want to be a victim, will continue to be.

[dead_rabbit]

Why doesn't "sticking it to the majority" not make sense? You know what bothers all of you about the nickname being changed is that you will have lost to the "Indians" on this matter. And most of you just can't come to terms with that. Think about it, after kickin our a$$es for so long, you'll finally lose one!

Most asinine post on this thread.

Sticking it to "whitey." Really? That's why you want the name changed?

The only people that have been kicking the NAs a$$es most recently, would be the Native Americans. Drugs, alcohol, and not wanting to take responsibility for your life, have been doing a lot of a$$ kicking, not whitey.

[sioux7>5]

Most asinine post on this thread.

Sticking it to "whitey." Really? That's why you want the name changed?

The only people that have been kicking the NAs a$$es most recently, would be the Native Americans. Drugs, alcohol, and not wanting to take responsibility for your life, have been doing a lot of a$$ kicking, not whitey.

I would second that. What a stupid statement.

I do not want the name changed and it has nothing to do with losing to Indians, it has to do with losing a part of the state that I grew up with and love. FOurwinds do you think that Sioux Falls, SD should change the name of the city? How about anything with a NA name? If UND should then everything should.

[Darth412000]

Actually when I was going to school in Bozeman I must have traveled the interstate between Bismarck and there at least 50 times and I stopped and helped motorists twice, both with flat tires and also picked up hitchhikers twice. I kinda made a vow after my experience that I would help stranded motorists.

In all seriousness, that's very kind of you. I'm a little leery about helping stranded people because, like I said, I'm a female and I'm usually traveling alone. My husband though, he's a good man and stops to help when he can.

[Herd]

Wrong.

First, the "workplace" is by definition an NCAA championship event, not a campus, or so sayeth the NCAA.

Next, certain members of the (albeit Oklahoma) Seminole Nation declared an issue with FSU. By your own words:

We had that one person from the Seminole Nation just as we have that one from the Sioux Nation.

We have one person with a problem with it in the "workplace".

Yet, FSU got off.

The "Workplace" is the Indian tribes in the respective states that or represent the school nickname. There is uniformity in Florida for FSU to use the Seminole nickname in association with their school. If there was not uniformity in Florida, they would be in the same boat as ND. "Harassment" claims in the "Workplace" as I have defined it for you are the death penalty to a nickname. I am just pointing out that the tribes and NCAA do not view this as a majority decision or vote. There must be uniformity of support on the inside of the "workplace".

That is how this situation is being viewed and implemented by the NCAA . . . it will not be voted on, even though the vote would show a majority in favor of retaining the nickname.

[dagies]

Why doesn't "sticking it to the majority" not make sense? You know what bothers all of you about the nickname being changed is that you will have lost to the "Indians" on this matter. And most of you just can't come to terms with that. Think about it, after kickin our a$$es for so long, you'll finally lose one!

You're wrong on that. It's nothing to do with "lost to the Indians". It has to do with being told what to do by a group that claims the moral high ground (NCAA) but really doesn't own it. It has to do with being told that you are wrong without proof that you are wrong. These are reasons to fight.

[Goon]

You're wrong on that. It's nothing to do with "lost to the Indians". It has to do with being told what to do by a group that claims the moral high ground (NCAA) but really doesn't own it. It has to do with being told that you are wrong without proof that you are wrong. These are reasons to fight.

I think UND fans fight is with the NCAA.

[dagies]

I just feel it's wrong to have UND use the nickname because we as natives do not feel honored and there is a significant % that feel as I do. I'm not gonna get into the argument of %'s and so on. I assumed that people on this board would be open minded to my beleifs, but apparently if I am against the nickname then everything i write is hogwash.

Unfortunately there are people on both sides of the issue who make this statement. It is incorrect. While you are fighting an uphill battle because, let's face it, 90+% of the posters support the name, it's the arguments one makes that generally affect the responses you get.

That doesn't mean some people don't have unreasonable responses. That happens. But you can't make a blanket statement like that without looking at your own conduct and how it might have contributed.

[Sioux-cia]

The "Workplace" is the Indian tribes in the respective states that or represent the school nickname. There is uniformity in Florida for FSU to use the Seminole nickname in association with their school. If there was not uniformity in Florida, they would be in the same boat as ND. "Harassment" claims in the "Workplace" as I have defined it for you are the death penalty to a nickname. I am just pointing out that the tribes and NCAA do not view this as a majority decision or vote. There must be uniformity of support on the inside of the "workplace".

That is how this situation is being viewed and implemented by the NCAA . . . it will not be voted on, even though the vote would show a majority in favor of retaining the nickname.

Uniformity means the absence of alternatives. If something is offensive and abusive for one than according to uniformity (and the NC$$) it is for all.... unless it isn't? How does that make sense? If George doesn't like getting his butt pinched and Nancy does, it's ok? No!! Nancy may like getting her butt pinched but if George witnesses it, that is sexual harassment.

Because the Seminoles in Oklahoma find the name hostile and abusive but the Seminoles in Florida don't that makes the name hostile and abusive but not hostile and abusive? The NC$$ allowing FSU, et al, the use of Native American names/logos/mascots shows there is no uniformity. It is either ok or it's not ok. The lose of our name and logo would be easier to swallow if there were no exemptions, including the NC$$'s sponsor, Pontiac!

[The Sicatoka]

Sioux-cia (that dirty girl) explained the problem with the inconsistency.

Me? I'll point out the moniker at http://www.yu.edu/athletics

Go Maccabees!

[Sioux-cia]

Sioux-cia (that dirty girl) explained the problem with the inconsistency.

Me? I'll point out the moniker at http://www.yu.edu/athletics

Go Maccabees!

Does the NC$$ know about this?!?!

[dead_rabbit]

Sioux-cia (that dirty girl) explained the problem with the inconsistency.

Me? I'll point out the moniker at http://www.yu.edu/athletics

Go Maccabees!

After checking out the site, I totally wish I was Jewish. Check out the men's golf. Some of the highlights are some of the guys breaking 90. One Maccabee shot a season best 87. I SUCK at golf, and even after getting my drink on, I've been known on occasion to break 90. Maybe my siblings have been right all along, I'm adopted, and comparing my golf scores to the Maccabees, it's obvious that I'm also a Jew. FERSHTAY?

[Goon]

After checking out the site, I totally wish I was Jewish. Check out the men's golf. Some of the highlights are some of the guys breaking 90. One Maccabee shot a season best 87. I SUCK at golf, and even after getting my drink on, I've been known on occasion to break 90. Maybe my siblings have been right all along, I'm adopted, and comparing my golf scores to the Maccabees, it's obvious that I'm also a Jew. FERSHTAY?

I break 90 on a 1/3 of my games and I suck. Heck I guess we are good enough to play golf at this college...

Yikes.

[Riverman]

I'm not racist. I have many friends who are caucasion. I work with caucasions.

I don't like the word caucasion could you please refrain from using this term.

[The Sicatoka]

I don't like the word caucasion could you please refrain from using this term.

Think you don't like that?

Imagine the horrors of being of German ancestry and hearing the Idaho Vandals moniker. Those are my fellow Germanic tribesmen and no one asked me for permission.

I'm nearly as mad as those folks in South Bend, IN, ... you know, the Fightin' Irish.

[Sioux-cia]

I'm still waiting for my share of the royalties San Diego State gets from the Aztec name and logo. They keep refusing my requests. They tell me that the Aztecs are extinct!!! WTF!!!! Tell that to the descendents of the Aztecs, many who are living in Southwestern states, that they don't exist. Tell the couple of million Aztec speaking descendents living near Mexico City that their language no long exists. F%^&*#@ Whitey!! Shuckin' and jivin', wheeling and dealing, so I don't get my fair share!!!

[redwing77]

After checking out the site, I totally wish I was Jewish. Check out the men's golf. Some of the highlights are some of the guys breaking 90. One Maccabee shot a season best 87. I SUCK at golf, and even after getting my drink on, I've been known on occasion to break 90. Maybe my siblings have been right all along, I'm adopted, and comparing my golf scores to the Maccabees, it's obvious that I'm also a Jew. FERSHTAY?

We leave most of it up to the Gentiles. Though we do have a surprising number of baseballers, boxers (most notably to me is Max Baer), and a decent number of football players too. Interestingly enough, 3 of four major leagues (MLB, NBA, and NHL) have Jewish commissioners. Here's a small list:

Past and Present Jewish baseball players:

Sam Fuld (Cubs)

Steve Stone

Hank Greenberg

Rod Carew (he converted)

Kevin Youkilis

Shawn Green

Sandy Koufax

Ryan Braun (MIL)

Gabe Kapler (MIL)

Jason Marquis (Cubs)

Brad Ausmus (Houston?)

Scott Schoenweiss

Bud Selig (proving that not all Jews in sports are great people)

Basketball:

Not going to list all, but there are a few notables (not to mention 9 hall of famers):

Red Auerbach

David Stern (see Bud Selig)

Jeff and Steve Van Gundy

Doug Gotlieb

Football:

Lyle Alzado

Sid Luckman

Al Davis (see again Bud Selig)

Jay Fiedler

Robbie Gould

Marv Levy

Sage Rosenfels

NHL:

Gary Bettman (the only Jew I've ever wished to see fired actively. I know us brothers have to stick together, but dude, you're ruining it for Jews in sports!)

Former Wolverines: Michael Cammalleri and Eric Nystrom

Former NCAA hockey player: Jeff Halpern

Mathieu Schneider

Sam Pollock (Montreal's GM in the '70s during their dominant era)

Former hockey player, former Sioux, Aaron Vicker

Racing:

Kenny Bernstein (Drag racing fame)

Paul Newman

Professional Wrestlers:

Bill Goldberg

Scott Levy - aka "Raven"

Sid Eudy - aka "Sid Vicious"

Rory Singer is a UFC Fighter... not a good one though.

Here's a full list: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Jewis...erican_athletes

[siouxjoy]

Rod Carew (he converted)

Sorry, RW77, but all I could think of once I came to this spot on the list is Adam Sandler.

It's an interesting list, though.

[Sioux-cia]

Sorry, RW77, but all I could think of once I came to this spot on the list is Adam Sandler.

It's an interesting list, though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prixcnIk6ec

[Riverman]

Think you don't like that?

Imagine the horrors of being of German ancestry and hearing the Idaho Vandals moniker. Those are my fellow Germanic tribesmen and no one asked me for permission.

I'm nearly as mad as those folks in South Bend, IN, ... you know, the Fightin' Irish.

Wait a minute, I thought if one person objects to a certain word,nickname or phrase everyone should stop using the word,nickname or phrase.

[Sioux-cia]

Wait a minute, I thought if one person objects to a certain word,nickname or phrase everyone should stop using the word,nickname or phrase.

Well, yes, but you are only partially correct. If the use of a Native American name/logo/mascot brings in multimillions of dollars to the NC$$, it's ok to use them.

[Herd]

Uniformity means the absence of alternatives. If something is offensive and abusive for one than according to uniformity (and the NC$$) it is for all.... unless it isn't? How does that make sense? If George doesn't like getting his butt pinched and Nancy does, it's ok? No!! Nancy may like getting her butt pinched but if George witnesses it, that is sexual harassment.

Because the Seminoles in Oklahoma find the name hostile and abusive but the Seminoles in Florida don't that makes the name hostile and abusive but not hostile and abusive? The NC$$ allowing FSU, et al, the use of Native American names/logos/mascots shows there is no uniformity. It is either ok or it's not ok. The lose of our name and logo would be easier to swallow if there were no exemptions, including the NC$$'s sponsor, Pontiac!

You are trying very hard to confuse yourself, and the facts. It's OK, when the Indian tribes and their leaders say it OK, and tell the NCAA uniformly that it OK. Your opinion, my opinion and voting does not matter.

There is uniform support by the Seminole Indian tribes in Florida for FSU to use the nickname (The Okla tribe is a non-Issue for FSU in the state of FL). There is not uniform support by the Sioux tribes in ND to use the nickname. If there was uniform support in ND, there would not be an issue in ND either. Those are the facts.

[Sioux-cia]

I'm not confused. I hold the positon there is no uniformity based on the NC$$ own actions of exempting some schools and not others. Oh sure, they dance around the issue by stating the 'namesake' tribes ultimately can give or deny permission for the use of 'their' names. Bull-snot!! The use of Native American names/logos/mascots is hostile and abuse for all (uniformity) or it's not.

The NC$$ makes so much sense!

In some instances, the NCAA recognizes that following the wishes of the namesake tribe may not reduce the potential for hostile or abusive behavior in the eyes of many or even most Native Americans. However, we believe that ignoring the opinions of those tribes who own those names would be tyranny of the majority and an even greater injustice.

http://republicans.edlabor.house.gov/archi...06/franklin.htm

[Riverman]

You are trying very hard to confuse yourself, and the facts. It's OK, when the Indian tribes and their leaders say it OK, and tell the NCAA uniformly that it OK. Your opinion, my opinion and voting does not matter.

There is uniform support by the Seminole Indian tribes in Florida for FSU to use the nickname (The Okla tribe is a non-Issue for FSU in the state of FL). There is not uniform support by the Sioux tribes in ND to use the nickname. If there was uniform support in ND, there would not be an issue in ND either. Those are the facts.

Oh I see, a Seminole is not a Seminole if they are not from the state of Fla.

Herd do you work for a branch of the NCAA?

Sioux-cia, Great post!!! I love this part the best.

"we believe that ignoring the opinions of those tribes who own those names would be tyranny of the majority and an even greater injustice.

."

Again all we ask is a vote of the majority of NA's on the reservations if they object we no longer use

the Great Warriors of the Plains name again.

Seems pretty simple IMHO.