To me it is a tough comparison, how would "haks goalies" evolved with out Karl, would we be talking about hanging 15.... It's not a recipe where sugar makes it sweet and salt does it's things. Teams are evolving humans and even the best estimates do not know the future life path of anyone. Hindsight does, but keep trying. For example, Moo U has had a QB guru, and a string of high level quarterbacks... did one create the other? which one? chicken or egg?