Bison06

I agree completely, in the eyes of the NCAA there isn’t a distinction. But in the eyes of the NCAA, they don’t make a distinction between Adderall and Heroin either. One is used by over 50% of high school and college students with the permission of their parents in many cases and the other is one of the most devastating drugs to hit the streets. I think it’s prudent among intelligent people to make distinctions that go slightly further than the NCAA’s black and white rules when we look at individual cases.

I feel like I’m crawling through the *{%}€ right now in my convo with Sikatoka.

Dude... You realize I was responding directly to people stating that players in NDSU’s history performed in a way that suggests they were taking steroids?

Legally, it does.

I’m cool with being Andy in this scenario. We know who ended up on the winning end of that.

I’m gonna move on, others are understanding the distinction I’m making, but you’re being intentionally obtuse.

That’s where we agree, this shouldn’t be happening due to the level of liability it carries with it. Every institution has the policy that “we don’t give our student athletes any supplements”. This “coach” seems to have acted contrary to that policy and should be investigated for said actions. If I’m BR and his mom, BN has a law suit on his desk by the weekend.

I respect you as a poster, you are always level headed. But you’re out of your wheelhouse on this topic. Because of the way the NCAA handles illegality(very vague purposely on what’s illegal) combined with the complete lack of regulation on the supplement industry by the FDA, the only truly safe way to go through college is to take no supplements at all. Players get popped for this every single day in the NCAA because supplement companies have lack of uniformity to their formulations from batch to batch. He took it, he’s responsible for it. Period. I’d be surprised if his intent was to cheat, especially given his reaction. The fact that he was lead to believe it was safe, implicity or explicitly is something I’d like to see addressed. If it was BN then I don’t want him around the team ever again. But, NCAA student athletes are specifically educated on this exact scenario at the beginning of each season and it’s unfortunate, but that’s his responsibility.

That’s the world of supplements man, no regulation on the contents so you can’t trust labels. You never know what you’re going to get and as an NCAA student/athlete you are educated every single year to know that every single time you put an exogenous substance in your body, you open yourself up to the consequences of that decision. Many of the preworkouts sitting on the shelves in your local GNC may have slightly too much of whatever substance the NCAA tests for in one batch vs another. Whereas another brand might have the exact same substance, but at a slightly lower concentration and it’s technically legal.

That isn’t my point at all. I agree completely that to the NCAA they are both against the rules. But to a player’s performance, anabolic agents are a completely different level of advantage than a preworkout supplement. They are also a completely different level of intention to gain an advantage. That’s my point when I say how prevalent stimulants are vs anabolic agents(steroids, hgh and the like) One you see every single day at the local YMCA or anytime fitness and can purchase through an seemingly inifinite amount of retail stores and online(I took one before my workout this morning)and the other you have to in most cases deal with some unsavory people to acquire or have a prescription theough a medical professional. As I said, completely different universes.

I agree.

Read my entire post. Nuance sir, as usual it’s lost on many here.

All signs point this direction, yep.

I’m not sure what your lifting background is, but anyone who spends time in a gym will tell you that the vast majority of men who are serious about their workouts take some sort of preworkout supplement. I can guarantee you, if you went to the UND weight room this morning and asked the team how many people in this room take something before their workout to get them going, the majority of hands would go up. A lot of guys use coffee to be safe, but others use supplements. Go to any GNC and ask to see their preworkout supplements, they are everywhere. The mistake that this kid made, was not being absolutely sure that he could take this particular preworkout supplement and whichever person associated with the team that gave him the impression, implicitly or explicitly that it was safe, should be addressed and handled appropriately. I’m not trying to downplay what happened here, just merely trying to put it in the proper perspective since many here are equating taking a preworkout to taking steroids or HGH. Completely different universes.

I’ve been out of the program for years, the effects have worn off.

I agree and at the end of the day, just knowing how these things tend to go, I fear the kid will be the only one to suffer. As I stated last night, I’m 99% sure I know who the “trusted staff member” is and I am all for this person not being allowed to be around our student athletes moving forward. I don’t take issue with anyone criticizing NDSU for any of the above, it’s a problem and as an alum I’m for it being addressed immediately. As to people calling into question NDSU’s success and discrediting the program and actually calling out individual players as having taken anabolic agents, as I said, let’s keep the conversation on the facts. Is it a problem that this kid tested positive, absolutely. But the facts are he is the only one out of hundreds of players over the years that has tested positive. So let’s go easy on the steroid BS.

If any of you would read the actual story you’d see how foolish your rhetoric is this morning. He said it was a standard preworkout supplement and he tested positive for a stimulant. There are categories of drugs for a reason people, this isn’t rocket science. You’d think the medical professionals on this board would be speaking up on this. For those who are stating that NDSU has had players in the past perform bigger than their size insinuating they got some sort of anabolic affect from this “preworkout” drink, simply don’t understand physiology. Stimulants aren’t anabolic, in fact, long term use can be catabolic. https://drugabuse.com/stimulants/effects-use/ best source I could find real quick. NDSU has opened itself up to criticism on this and I’d like questions to be asked and investigated as to the specific details. But, keep it to the facts people, you guys are like CNN right now with your logic leaps.

I’ll be honest about this, it looks bad. If true and I have no reason to believe it’s not, I feel horrible for the kid. I am 99% sure, I know who the “trusted staff member” is and am very disappointed about this all.

Does it? How many is throughout the lockeroom then, precisely? Throughout the lockeroom is a relative term that doesn’t give any real idea of the scale. It’s like saying “a lot of guys on the team”, how many is a lot?

She’s using relative terms, not lying.

The people who were in the room for that conversation all seemed to walk away happy. That’s enough for me I suppose.

Your commitment to the bit is admirable.

What makes you think any NDSU fan would have access to that information? Can we agree that if what you’re saying is 100% true, that they would have had to have told Graetz about their reason? Can we also agree that if that reason didn’t pass as aboveboard with Graetz and his family that they likely wouldn’t have agreed to send their child to be coached by these coaches? I’m not sure what answer you’re looking for here.

This is the whole point that’s being discussed. “I have no doubt”, but you don’t know for sure. Just like NDSU fans “have no doubt” that our coaches treated recruits with respect during a difficult process. So many times, many on this board fail to see their own hypocrisy when they defend their guy when they “have no doubt”, but will call NDSU coaches out for playing dirty. Even if you are hearing directly from an inside source how things went down, it’s still just a matter of perspective in most cases. Tone down the NDSU is the evil empire rhetoric for a minute and reality will become clear again.

On Bisonville maybe. Most NDSU fans I know are hyper critical of the team and everything that surrounds it. We hold the team to a higher standard than your average rube. But, the amount of trying to discredit NDSU’s success by insinuating or outright accusing NDSU of cheating their way to seven national championships in eight years that’s been happening on this board lately is ridiculous, so I speak up to defend my guys.