Bison06

I swear you don't even read my posts. You just see Bison and immediately come up with a rebuttle. I never said Vegas is right 100% of the time, but they are right a hell of a lot more often than they aren't. How do you propose we PLAY THE GAME? The dude asked why I was of the opinion that NDSU would beat SDSU(aztecs) this year. Clearly NDSU won't be playing them this year. How does someone as pragmatic as yourself respond to a hypothetical challenge such as this? Do you blindly respond "well we'll never know, maybe UND could beat LSU this year"?

With a reasonable amount of certainty sure you can. More often than not the team that is supposed to win does, that why when they don't it's called an upset. There is an entire industry based on people betting on odds and rankings. There is a reason vegas is rarely far off on spreads.

So what do you propose is a good way to objectively decide who "should" win a football game? Do fanbases just get to randomly claim they would beat a team and then use examples like Indiana St. over NDSU to justify it? All sports have upsets, him using that site is an objective way to determine how good teams are and he was using it in response to someone else asking what makes him think NDSU would beat SDSU(aztecs).

You clearly do not speak for the entire UND fanbase as it was a UND fan who first brought it up and many other UND fans who continued to try and perpetuate a false notion.

Thanks for the correction. So with the correct numbers listed the argument is even stronger in NDSU's favor of playing a similar caliber of FBS teams as UND has. Change the teams' records to 27-42, which becomes a 39% winning percentage. Assuming his numbers are correct the teams UND played have a 43% winning percentage as opposed to 39% for NDSU's FBS teams And if you really want to get technical about it. Two of those wins were against Minnesota, who then had to turn around and play the Big Ten schedule. Slightly tougher than playing the WAC or MWC schedule.

I've always thought the argument you're making is very interesting. Let me explain. NDSU added losses to the teams' overall records. UND added wins. So let's say NDSU loses all those games and UND wins all of the games and see what happens to the teams' overall records. Teams NDSU beat becomes 30-50 or a 37.5% winning percentage. If we change all those losses to wins. Teams UND played becomes 31-41 or a 43% winning percentage, if we change all of the wins to losses. Still think the teams you have played are that much better? The difference is NDSU is adding losses to their records and UND is adding wins.

Jeff Sagarin who is slightly more well known and credible than Bison06 and southpaw, seems to think we would beat them as well. http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/fbt12.htm

How are Fresno and SDSU not in the same category? Fresno beat SDSU this year. By your own admission Fresno is up this year, which means they were even worse when UND played them.

I hear that a lot lately from UND fans, yet all you do is compare scores. Football has been shown time and time again to not have a transitive property when comparing scores. Matchups are more important in football than any other sport. So there really isn't any reason at all to bring it up.

Wow you are really putting me in my place. Actually I do enjoy coming here and reading the asinine comments and making corrections with facts. Calling NDSU's FBS wins overrated is petty and makes you sound like a fool.

Fair analysis, but I still feel you are wrong. It is exactly those advantages that you concede that make winning a game over a BCS conference school a big deal regardless of whether or not they are having a down year. Take for example NDSU's multiple wins over Minnesota. This is a HUUUUUUUUUUUGE deal for multiple reasons. There is literally not a person on NDSU's roster that wasn't shunned by the U of M. Every single player on NDSU's roster would have accepted a scholarship offer from Minnesota if it were offered. We recruit the same area, so we are beating them with players that they didn't think were good enough for their program. You see NDSU win recruiting battles over FBS schools all the time, but I have never seen NDSU win a recruiting battle with a BCS conference school. Why? Because when those schools offer a kid accepts. Just because all of these things don't translate into winning every game doesn't mean it isn't an advantage that BCS schools have over every other school. I honestly understand why UND fans don't think it is that big of a deal to beat U of M in football. You guys have played and beat them in hockey for many, many years. But keep in mind you are on equal footing with them in that sport. NDSU is not on equal footing with U fo M in football. So as much as you guys want to downplay beating a Big Ten team. It is a huge freaking deal.

Not all, they just have a history of playing well against FBS schools and UND hasn't exactly played any good FBS schools these past few years outside of Texas Tech. So it is logical to assume NDSU would also do quite well against the likes of Idaho, Fresno St. and SDSU.

What some UND fans don't seem to understand is that it DOES matter what level a team plays at and it DOES matter what conference they are in. Why you may ask? Because it damn sure matters to recruits. You don't think Central Michigan is at a disadvantage when they recruit against a Big Ten team, even if it is lowly Indiana? BCS conference teams have advantages in recruiting and in athletic budgets. Which means better facilities, better coaches and ultimately better players. Beating a team from an FBS conference is a difficult feat, the numbers bear that out. Beating an FBS team from a BCS conference? Damn near impossible if you look at the numbers.

Listen, those stats I listed aren't my opinion. It is extremely rare and difficult to beat an FBS team. If it were just about scheduling the "easy" ones don't you think everyone would be doing that? So until NDSU does what Appalachian State did, which by the way had never been done before and hasn't been done since, you won't be impressed? Just think how good UND's football program would be if you held your own team to such a high standard. If it isn't a big deal or difficult to do, why hasn't UND been able to accomplish it?

Is that right? Which year would that have happened? Last year? How could you possibly justify such a statement when UND has lost to FBS teams the Gophers would likely beat? I am seriously curious to hear a justification for this.

I haven't contradicted myself at all. You obviously haven't followed FCS football for very long. From 2006-2011 there were 520 FCS vs. FBS games. FCS teams won 37 of those games. This is a 7.1% winning percentage. Over that same time period, NDSU had a 5-3 record against FBS competition. They won 5 of 8 games over that time, a 62.5% winning percentage. 2012 stats aren't included in the above stats but NDSU notched another win this year giving them a 6-3 record against FBS teams since 2006, or a 66.6% winning percentage. So from 2006 to 2011, NDSU accounted for 5 of the 37 FCS vs. FBS matchup wins. That's 13% of all the FCS vs. FBS wins. So given the fact that from 2006-2011 FCS teams have a 7.1% winning percentage over FBS teams while NDSU enjoys a 62.5% winning percentage, I feel confident in saying that I am correct in saying that FBS wins for FCS teams are EXTREMELY RARE. But NDSU seems to buck that trend and IMO would have beaten most if not all of the FBS teams UND has played over the past few years. Feel free to use facts this time if you want to say I am contradicting myself.

I think the problem is a lack of consistency from venue to venue. The Alerus and FargoDome could likely support replays, but smaller stadiums when games are not televised or simulcast would likely need large upgrades in technology to make it work.

Why don't you check the stats on FBS games vs. FCS teams. Regardless of how good an FBS team ends up in their own conference, FBS wins are EXTREMELY RARE. There is no such thing as an FBS cupcake. Has nothing to do with me being an NDSU fan either, they are just so rare that you can't discount them even in the slightest way. Which of the FBS teams that UND has played in the past 4 years wouldn't NDSU have beaten? Texas Tech is likely the only one.

It doesn't take a math major to figure out that a conference as small as the Great West is going to have their conference ranking skewed either too high or too low. If they have one or two teams with a decent ranking it artificially elevates the entire conference. If one or two are really bad they will be skewed in the opposite direction. Larger conferences are buffered from these large swings by having a larger sample size.

We could argue back and forth all day about UND vs. CSU. The fact remains that UND has never beaten an FBS team, so to say that UND would beat Colorado State is a reach to say the least.

UND would likely pound MSU, they are a cellar dweller in the MVFC. Even though they beat NDSU in 2010

Post #398.

Well hell, 7-0 is possible, extremely unlikely, but anything is possible. The last poster said 5-2 is likely, which means a win at Colorado State an FBS school, something UND has never done. Saying that UND wins that game showed his bias. So now using a little smiley emoticon is bashing? Grow some thicker skin my man. I have been on par with what others have said with 3-4 or 4-3. So how do you respond to what I said in an earlier post, that if we are agreeing for the most part that UND would have likely the same record against NDSU's schedule, how can UND fans say NDSU's SOS is poor?

Well, when considering the strength of a conference every team gets included. I don't make the rules.

5-2? You have never won an FBS game, but are willing to predict one to prove your theory? Why is the MVFC routinely rated so highly if they are horrible? Conspiracy?