Bison06

So given we don't have that information unless he wants to tell us, don't you think it comes off as petty to want your rival school's kids to get in trouble?

You're probably right about that. At least we'd have something else to debate.

Thanks for the lesson on our country's civil court system. I understand how it works. What I don't understand is why someone who has no horse in the race (Goon) would "want" them to be found liable.

What aren't you getting? I have stated many times that if they are liable they should be held to account for it.

Who are you to say that they need added punishment to be certain they learned their lesson. As has been stated in the paper many times, punishments are being handled internally. I don't have children and I don't know if you do either, but when I do, internal family punishments will be much more severe than anything a judge or a police officer could give my son or daughter. If your concern is truly that they are taught to be good young men and take heart in the lesson to be learned, then how can you be certain that hasn't been handled already? In reality, having them learn a lesson isn't your true agenda here. It is to see your rival school stumble and nothing more. I played for Coach Bohl for 3.5 seasons, trust me when I tell you, they have been punished sufficiently to have learned their lesson on this one.

You think it should be a felony? Great, call your representative. For now it isn't so if it's ok with you I'll just defer to the expertise of the judge who sentenced them. Glad our justice system doesn't revolve around what Goon thinks the punishments should be. If they are found liable, I agree, they should be responsible for whatever dollar amount a judge finds them to be. But to want that to happen and ruin their lives? That's a bit much. Haha, so now not only do you want them to be held liable, you are planning to actively seek out these people to push your own selfish agenda. Wow, you're cold dude.

Quote my post where I said the law shouldn't apply to them. It is one thing for someone to say if they are liable than they should be held responsible. I agree with that completely. But for him to say that he flat out wants them to be sued for dollar amounts that are likely more than all of their net worths combined, I find that to be too much and I take issue with that sentiment.

It doesn't surprise me one bit that you hope that. It isn't enough for them to be punished in court, now you hope that they have their financial lives ruined before they begin. Thanks for your concern.

Yeah, nobody has ever said anything in a press conference to appease the masses. I take it you didn't watch the presidential debate last night. College athletics is more than just about winning, but coaches are hired to win football games. If they are also a great guy who kicks out amazing people who go on to great things, that is just a bonus. I do have that expectation of NDSU, all I'm saying is it isn't required. I hold them to a higher standard than their job description might. He may not say it in public, but be honest with yourself. Would Mussman take a few guys with minor offseason trouble and a national championship over a non-playoff year where nobody on the team was even picked up for J-Walking? Seriously think about it. I think we both know the answer. So there is no need to speak to me from your soapbox on this one. Every coach wants the same thing at this level of football. On the bolded part: Where is the public outcry by you then if you hold your athletic department to such a high standard. I would think a man such as yourself who can always be found on the moral high ground would be picketing outside the athletic department offices at UND right now.

No it doesn't, it shows they would like it to carry a more serious penalty moving forward. Using that logic, I'll just start smoking weed now. After all it will likely be de-criminalized sometime in the next few years, that shows it is a less serious crime than some people think, right?

I agree, and under those rules it is my understanding that the coach has final say on a player's punishment. If Bohl doesn't feel they need to punished futher than I am on board with that.

I know he isn't well liked here, but I have spent a lot of time around GT and he is a very decent man.

I keep hearing that, but that is completely irrelevant.

I was responding to Darell's post about breaking the law is against team rules and deserves punishment. I understand different levels of crimes have to be taken more seriously, that wasn't my point.

If you take the quote in context Darell, I believe GT was just fed up with the questions and decided to speak up. I will admit, he should have chosen his words more carefully. But, they had just won a huge game and after a long week of answering the same questions it is my belief that he cracked for a moment. He is human after all and I believe his emotions got the best of him.

C'mon 82, that is an awfully naive view that is fine for the papers and a press conference, but that isn't really the way it works. As I have said in past posts, of course you can't have a program completely out of control, you have to meet minimum requirements for grades, graduation rates etc. But, if you meet the minimum for those things nobody is going to fire you for not producting Rhode's scholars or Nobel Prize winner's. Now, as a guy who has pride in the program I played for, I would like NDSU players to keep their noses clean, get amazing grades, never have thier names in the paper for anything negative AND win football games. But I'm also a realist, and if you take a random sampling of any 100 18-22 year olds in the country, odds are a few of them are going to get in trouble from time to time. As an alum of the school, the football team and a booster, I have no problem with the way he has handled this situation. If our legal system doesn't provide sufficient punishment for you then feel free to contact you representative.

So should players be suspended for speeding tickets? Running a red light? Being out past curfew? Breaking the law isn't sufficient cause for suspension, it is left up to the coach.

I know this isn't a popular opinion, because in some ways it sounds like me diminishing what they've done. But, I don't think this would be a big deal anywhere but slow news ND. Look at the sentences they received, even in the eyes of the law this isn't a big deal. You make it sound like NDSU is U of Miami in the 80's. If it is truly out of control, not just UND fans thinking it is out of control, than yes even 11-0 and national championships won't save your job. But it isn't Miami of the 80's, it isn't anything. Bohl has a track record of being a disciplined coach and running a clean locker room outside of a few bad apples that every team deals with. Hardly out of control from any objective perspective. My bottom line is this: If the legal system has already punished the players, it isn't Coach Bohl job to punish the players further unless he wants to. Given it is his job to win games, why would he go out of his way to punish them above and beyond what our legal system has already done?

Football coaches are hired to win games. This isn't high school. If Mussman, Bohl or any other coach was 0-11 two years in a row, but had the highest graduation rate and highest GPA with zero criminal offenses, they would still be out of a job. They broke the law and are being punished accordingly. Do you think UND or NDSU or any other school has a team rule against what they did? I highly doubt it. Which I believe is part of the reason Bohl let the process play out. There is hardly a precedent for what happened.

Exactly the point I am trying to make. His job is to win football games within the rules, how has he not fulfilled that job description?

It would be easier to have conversation with you Darell if you didn't play dumb all the time. You are making my point for me. It would have been easy for Coach Bohl to suspend the players for those games without it hurting NDSU's chances of winning significantly. Which is why I had no problem with him letting the justice system wheels turn first. Coach Bohl made it clear from the beginning he was going to see what the punishment from our legal system would be. If he thinks that the punishment handed out by the judge is sufficient then I believe it is at his discretion. It isn't his job to punish his players above and beyond what our legal system has. It is his job to field a competitive football team without breaking any rules.

I can agree with that. I would imagine it wouldn't be nearly as toxic if that were the case.

Regardless of what anyone here may have as an opinion on ethics or morals etc. It is not the job of a football coach to teach/punish players for ethics or common sense. They can if they want to, but it isn't in their job description. If our justice system sees this punishment as fit for the crime, I am fine with them serving that punishment and there being nothing more to come from it. You think it's any different at UND? You're delusional. Mussman would do anything within the NCAA rules to win games. Don't throw the "he suspended guys for missing class" at me either. He wouldn't do that if it were the national championship and it was his starting QB. It's easy to suspend guys for small things when they either aren't important or the game isn't a big game. Winning football games within the rules that are laid out is the job of a football coach. Period.

There are times when I think it would be a good idea to start playing this game again, but reading and being involved in this thread is making me not miss it one bit. This relationship is so toxic on both sides. Both sides lose any semblance of rationality or objectivity and it is physically difficult to read. Someday I hope this rivalry gets back up and running, but I do not miss the toxic bs that gets spewed back and forth. It brings out the worst out of both fanbases.

You already used that one today, try to be more original when you come up with your insults. And seriously dude, you are mocking me for going out and making something of myself, taking a risk, starting my own business, hiring employees, providing a service and contributing to the economy? You need to check yourself man.