Bison06

Boy is Mollberg going to be dissappointed if that is the case. He passed up a chance to play at NDSU to avoid competition and now here he is in a competition at UND.

Actually I think it's more like "stay here this summer, and in January put one of these around your finger".

Are scholarship players required to stay in GF or is it a choice?

Ahh, now I see what you mean. That actually makes sense. Buy then you might have some competition issues with the other sports that "basketball" school sponsors. In that situation you might even have schools dropping all sports except basketball. Then we've completely dropped the notion of student-athlete and shown that college sports are really all about the money. Big surprise right?

What do you mean by basketball only? Under your scenario, you are either a part of the NCAA or you are a member of one of the conferences seceding from the NCAA. I don't see any gray area. Maybe I am misunderstanding what you are proposing.

No I get your point, but he is saying that teams outside the conferences that are now operating outside the NCAA would be allowed to play in this tournament. ie Wichita St, Gonzaga, Butler, insert any mid major basketball program. Under the proposal of you and others, those teams would still be members of the NCAA and still subject to any rule the NCAA imposes. Why would the NCAA, after just losing some of it's best members, turn around and "let" the members it still has contribute to the success of their new competitor?

That may be so, I think the tournament has such a large following BECAUSE of those smaller schools, you think it has large rating despite the smaller schools. Agree to disagree. I do see the larger schools splitting into a different division, just not outside of the NCAA.

You think the NCAA would allow it's members to play in a new tournament outside the NCAA and still keep good standing with the NCAA in their other sports? I'm not so sure about that. If Wichita, Gonzaga and Marquette aren't a part of these new conferences in all sports, I don't see why the NCAA would just 'let' them play in a post season tournament other than thier own.

Never said they did, but viewers do. I just think the tournament loses a lot of it's luster if there isn't the pageantry and the drama that upsets make. I don't speak for everyone of course, but I can say without a doubt that my interest in that tournament would be significantly less if you didn't have 15 vs. 2 and 14 vs. 3 type matchups. Some of the best story lines of ALL TIME are due to the format of the tournament. It would take viewers a long time to accept a tournament made up exclusively of SEC, B1G, BIG East, Pac 10 and Big 12 schools.

I am not saying they won't have their own division, I am just saying I don't see it very likely to be separate from the NCAA because of the scheduling issues I posted about earlier and the NCAA basketball tournament. I am sure there are thousands of other things the NCAA might bring up if these schools wanted to part ways with the NCAA. You really think the NCAA is going to allow their member schools to count games with the "big schools" toward bowl eligibility if they are no longer part of their program? Think of the scheduling issues for those big schools when they are all fighting each other for OOC home games in football. The big schools in a way need the smaller schools, not as much as the small schools need the big schools, but you get my point I think.

I am not so sure about that. Basketball is very different than football, people don't just want to see the big schools when March rolls around, they want to see the David vs. Goliath matchups. I don't think it's as simple in basketball as it is in football. We'll see, I just see the NCAA basketball tournament as a major bargaining chip to make sure the big boys don't leave the NCAA.

They would never want to not be associated with the NCAA in basketball. There is no way to match the excitement of the NCAA tournament with the possibility of the "smaller schools" upsetting big schools. From my perspective, the NCAA has a lot more negotiating power than you all are saying. They could hold these schools hostage for the NCAA tournament if they wanted. I don't see the NCAA letting these schools out without making them pay for it BIG TIME. In the end, a separate division within the NCAA is the only viable option for them, IMO. The NCAA just has too much they can take away from these larger schools.

Nice write up and I actually see this exact thing happening the way many of you guys do. I will say that you are missing one key bargaining chip that the NCAA would have. They could very easily ban their member schools from playing this new division if those "big schools" don't end things amicably with the NCAA. That would lead to many, many problems for the bigger schools IMO. Fighting for OOC home games would be an absolute mess without some of these smaller schools looking for a pay day away game. Other than that I think your assessment is spot on.

Quote my post where I asked for a pat on the back. All I'm asking for, if anything, is that people quit with the "NDSU football players are all criminals and UND players will all be lawyers and doctors" Just when you begin to think there are some reasonable posters on this board, you guys change my mind back again. Thanks for the reality check guys.

No my premise for posting was to offer the other side of the story, so you guys don't start believing your own propaganda.

What an asinine response.

Mods, I realize this probably shouldn't be in the football forum. However, since many of the discussions that portray NDSU players in a negative way are here, I wanted to at least start it here. Feel free to move it to the appropriate place. I would like to offer this article as the other side of the story for those on this board that feel NDSU runs a dirty program full of criminals. So here is some balance to the discussion. Please take the time to read this, as it highlights a quality young man(a few in fact, but one in particular) using his position in society for positive things. http://e4brokerage.c...Frisco_2013.pdf

It's funny to me that you guys take the time to actually say you are done. Would have more of an impact if you would just stop posting don't you think? Good luck with your upcoming recruiting class fellas. It'll be interesting to see how these classes turn out for both NDSU and UND.

Again, the law calls it a misdemeanor.

If you want to continue to avoid the facts to feed your agenda then I will discontinue this discussion. Please respond to this direct question: NDSU knew about the petition issue in August, before the Robert Morris game. Agreed? If they felt the players deserved a suspension, they could have done it right then and there without affecting the outcome of the season. In fact, both Marcus williams and Sam Ojuri sat the entire second half of that game anyway. Don't you think it is more likely that they felt, after discussing the issue with legal counsel, that the crime simply didn't warrant a suspension? You and I can have our opinions on whether or not that is true, but as an outsider I have to believe that they just didn't think that what they were accused of deserved punishment.

Whatever helps you get through the day as a UND football fan darell. You live in a black and white world and that's fine, but in my world there are grey areas. I am not saying they are perfect angels, but if having players get in trouble with the law makes a program dirty than every program in the nation runs a dirty program. Based on the information I had on the situation(petition), would I have liked to see a 1 game suspension? Yes. But I only have the information that was available in the media. Based on Coach Bohl's track record in disciplinary issues, I trust his judgement.

Where in the above post do you see him referencing incidents that went unpunished? He was referencing players getting in trouble and used the example of the Best Buy incident, where all of the players were immediately dismissed from the team.

Pay attention darell, he said I can't think of one example. I provided one, end of story. All of those players outside of the petition fraud(misdemeanor) were immediately dismissed from the team, not sure how they are relevant in this conversation of NDSU running a "dirty program".

Why would the team enforce a more harsh punishment than the legal system deemed necessary? You guys wouldn't have been happy unless they were all dismissed from the team.

He set the criteria at 10 years, not me.