Hammersmith

I don't know if anyone is really interested in this, but someone on this thread asked a while back about ND players on NDSU's roster and whether they were scholarship or walk-on. I've been on an internet research kick the last couple days, so I put together the info. I included a separate category for ND kids who were recruited but left the team for one reason or another(if I could find out why). I can't be sure I got everybody, especially unrecruited walk-ons who left the program. They can appear and disappear without fanfare. I also don't know if the scholarships were full or partial, and if/when players recruited as walk-ons were given scholarships. I have no thoughts about the info, just passing the time on a wet and dreary Friday. NDSU players from ND Sr Ryan Smith - Scholarship Andrew Grothmann - Scholarship Ryan Drevlow - Scholarship Danny Luecke - Walk-on Jr Esley Thorton - Scholarship Travis Beck - Scholarship Zac Johnson - VCSU transfer Nate Moody - Walk-on So Carson Wentz - Scholarship Dylan Dunn - Walk-on Brock Russell - Bemidji St transfer Alex Fontaine - Walk-on RFr MJ Stumpf - Scholarship Zachary Baker - Walk-on Jack Plankers - Scholarship Landon Lechler - Scholarship Justin Arp - Walk-on Fr Keenan Hodenfield - Walk-on Peter Saintal - Walk-on Jeff Illies - Scholarship Bryce Messner - Walk-on No longer with team 2009: Logan Hushka(W-Injury) 2010: Tyler Gefroh(S-Injury) 2011: Andrew Okland(S-?), Brandon Chrest(W-?), Leighton Talmadge(W-Transferred to Mary) 2012: none so far

Clearing the practice field of snow prior to spring ball. The silly thing is that it would have taken a maintenance employee an afternoon to do the same thing with the right equipment(which UND owns).

What game were you watching? There were a total of three turnovers in the game. The Bison picked off K-State in the 2nd Q. The resulting drive was the one with the dropped pass in the endzone and the missed field goal. Zero Bison points off the INT. The second turnover was when Brock was picked off near the beginning of the 2nd half. That lead to a K-State touchdown to put them up 14-7. The final turnover of the night was the last offensive K-State play of the game with less than 30 seconds on the clock and no time outs. If you take away the turnovers, it's just as likely the Bison win by 10 instead of 3. Oh, and no way the Bison compete in the SEC. Worst matchup with the Bison of all the FBS conferences. I will say this, with the exception of the elite teams like Oregon, Ohio State, and the top end of the SEC, these Bison could make a single game against any FBS team. As far as competing in conference play, of course the Bison wouldn't fair well. That scholarship differential of 22 would rear its ugly head long before the end of the season. But take the existing Bison program and give us the 22 scholarships to fill out our depth. No major changes to the coaching staff or starters(give us an extra position coach because I think FBS is allowed one more than FCS), but let us improve our second and third strings. I think that Bison team could compete* in all FBS conferences except the SEC and wouldn't be the worst team in that conference. *by compete, I mean not bottom quarter; top third of non-BCS conferences, middle-pack to slightly below most BCS, right around the bottom third mark of B1G, maybe Big12.

Was Gilly's, now Brick & Barley Bar & Restaurant. Craft beers(48 taps) and a much different and expanded menu. http://www.grandforksherald.com/event/article/id/270957/

Another boring fact filled post below, so feel free to skip it. You are very correct about the school colors being based in agriculture. You probably read the first verse, but a line goes, "fields of waving green in springtime, golden yellow in the fall." We'll ignore the redundancy of golden yellow for now. As an aside, I believe your school colors are also plant related. Aren't the original colors of green and prairie rose(pink) based on the wild flower commonly found in ND at the time? In any case, I believe it was understood the NDAC colors were yellow and green, and that understanding held up until the 1960's. If the story I heard was correct, it was during the first series of football championships when the terminology shifted. One championship was under the belt, and the school was going for more. There was a light ad campaign at the time promoting the team. Not an ad campaign in the sense we would think of today, but a few slogans and an overall theme. Two elements of that time have survived: "green and gold", and "the march is on". The basic concept was "the march is on for another championship gold". Gold is viewed as the color of championships, so it was an easy reach. The alliteration between green and gold made it stick. It's really interesting to listen to a discussion over which set of colors is "right". The real old timers and those who were part of the music program at NDSU are adamant that the correct colors are yellow and green. (It is a long standing tradition that the music groups sing the song every time they eat together. A four+ year marching band member might play the song a thousand times and sing it a hundred more.) On the other hand, players from the 60's onward are almost fanatic that the colors are green and gold. The green and gold phrase became part of the championship tradition and the football program holds that tradition very dearly. The average student tends to follow the team, so the colors shifted to green and gold. I don't think anyone ever set out to get rid of yellow because they were ashamed of it, it just happened organically over the years. The players identified the gold with their championships. When you try to say that the real color is yellow and not gold, it's almost like you're trying to take away something from the championships. In some small way, it's like the way the hockey players and hockey-only crowd reacted to the nickname change. Over the decades, the nickname and logo became strongly linked to the championships. When you try to change the logo, many felt like it took something away from those championships. Same deal, if to two different degrees. As to the original topic of the thread, there's no significant difference between DI FCS and DI Hockey. I look at the fanbases. Both fanbases can be characterized as small and very passionate. They both tend to consist of people who have some direct connection to the school. Either they went there, or played there, or grew up near the school, or had relatives/friends who went there. Sports like BCS football(top 5 FBS conferences) have a completely different type of fanbase. While they still have a core group of very passionate fans, the bulk of the fanbase is the casual fan who tunes in on Sat and is willing to watch any of a dozen teams. The fanbase of the bottom 5 FBS conferences can be characterized as small and casual if you want to be kind(exceptions like Boise State notwithstanding), or small and apathetic if you want to be brutally honest.

Eh, just for the record NDSU also offers education degrees through the PhD level. And the VCSU crap is only elementary ed because of state politics. Secondary degrees(middle school & high school) are solely from NDSU. Not that it really matters, but it only takes me a few seconds to write the post and it's a common misunderstanding.

And hockey coaches. Vast sums of money to hockey coaches.

Interesting. We can't use the ticket sales figures because they include all ticket revenue and the conversation to this point was about UND hockey vs. NDSU football, but the contributions figure is odd. The NDSU figure isn't too far off from the number previously reported, but the UND figure from USA Today is way off from the number on UND's website($3.1M vs. $2.2M). The contribution figure must include revenue beyond seat fees(i.e. non Champions Club money).

Out of curiosity, how are you getting those numbers? By my count, UND hockey brings in about 18% more than NDSU football when you combine ticket sales with seat fees. Math: (my NDSU numbers are pretty solid, but my UND numbers may be off by a bit since I estimated the size of your student section) NDSU season tickets cost $125(end zone) and $175(sideline); single games are $25/$35. I estimate season tickets are split 75/25 in favor of sideline, and single games are about 50/50. I'm running with 12,100 season tickets sold, and about 1500 single game tickets per game. Those are conservative numbers since they only total up to 17,600 when you include the 4000 students while the capacity is actually around 19,000. That's 1400 missing tickets. But I'll stick with those numbers because I'm not sure how suite money is handled and how many tickets are reserved for family and recruits. Here's the equation: [($125 x .25) + ($175 x .75) x 12100] + ($30 x 1500 x 6) = $2,236,250 or about $2.25M For UND M hockey, I used a simpler system since I'm not as familiar with it. Regular season tickets are $390 and student season tickets are $140. I'm going to assume UND holds some tickets back for families, recruits and promotional reasons and use 11,000 as the total number of seats. I'm going to use a conservative figure of 2000 student seats(looks like more than that on the seat map), and I'm not going to separate out single game tickets since I couldn't find a current price chart. So this equation looks like: ($390 x 9000) + ($140 x 2000) = $3,790,000 or about $3.75M. Adding together we get: NDSU: $2.25M + $2.8M = $5.05M UND: $3.75M + $2.2M = $5.95M If I've made any major mistakes let me know, but those numbers don't look anything close to 50%. A silly computation using these numbers is to figure out what the average seat is worth. You take the total amount raised between tickets and seat fees and you divide that by the number of total seats multiplied by the number of home games. Using that method, an NDSU FB seat generates $44.30 per game, while a UND hockey seat generates $25.76 per game. Just a little silly fun with numbers.

Last year(2012-13), the Champions Club donated $2.4M to UND athletics. The vast bulk of that came from hockey priority seating fees. http://www.undsports...DB_OEM_ID=13500 NDSU Team Makers brought in $2.2M in 2011-12, and I think they brought in $2.5M last year, but I'm having problems confirming that. The vast bulk of that money comes from football priority seating fees. edit: It actually looks like it was $2.8M last year. http://www.bisonillustrated.com/2013/02/athletic-direction-with-gene-taylor/ Neither number includes the price of the ticket itself. Just throwing out some hard and accurate numbers for the debate. Carry on.

Can we start making jokes about having a large cemetery across the street from the med school? There's got to be dozens of good ones. BTW, does anyone on here know in what part of said cemetery can you find the UND plot that houses the cremains of bodies donated to the med school? My family just found out my uncle's wife had his remains interred there rather than having them returned. It looks like a large cemetery from google maps, so I'd like to have some idea where to go rather than just wandering around until we stumbled across them. Also, does anyone know if the next interment ceremony will be this fall or next. The website says approx. every three years and the last one was in Sep 2011. Thanks if anyone has answers.

Dammit. Long reply got eaten. Here's a short version. No. Current maximum exhibit space size in FM is 12,500sqft. The preliminary plans for the new facility have a 50,000sqft main exhibit hall that can be partitioned in half. It's meant for conventions that are too big for private businesses. The other 8 meeting spaces in the project are between 800-1000sqft each, although they can be combined into spaces of 2000-2600sqft. Still, not a place for a wedding reception or other small-medium sized events. The FD does operate in the black, and the sales tax ended in 2008. The surplus tax money is used for capital projects like the lobby. It's also going to be used for upgrades/replacement of major equipment through around 2045(first 50 years of operation). The fund needs around $15 million in it to cover those costs until 2045; it's got $34 million in it right now. Without a public vote, that excess money can't be used for anything except the FD. That's why these proposals keep coming up; there's basically $15-20 million of taxpayers dollars sitting there uselessly. The sales tax brought in 75-100% more than anticipated due to Fargo's growth during the '90s and '00s. The FD cost $48 million to build and that was paid off in 2009. About $7-8 million of the tax was diverted by the voters into street repair. A couple million went into doubling the number of suites and replacing the video boards many years ago. The new lobby addition also came out of that fund. I think the new lighting and sound system came out of the fund as well as the FD's share of the new turf, but I think the new parking lot came from other funds. Even with all that and the hit the fund took during the credit crisis, the fund is still at $34 million with at least $17 million in excess money.

SiouxSports oldtimers: You actually claim this guy? He makes lakesbison and JBB sound like Lord Byron and John Keats. BTW SiouxVolley, did you even understand why I posted about hypocrisy? In a different thread, you were saying Tony of BV should be sued for libel/slander because he suggested Holmberg was the anonymous legislator behind the Brescani email request. Yet you are the one who started this thread that's basically a giant lie. Understand now? Everyone else: Peace out bros.

Hypocrisy makes me smile. (this comment aimed only at SiouxVolley)

Yep. Averages to the 9 MVC schools excluding Creighton: Belmont - 410mi NDSU - 710mi Denver - 845mi Wonder which one has the edge? Denver is staying in the Summit because the Summit is the only palatable conference that won't require Denver to add sports. Denver isn't running around cheering that they got a Summit invite, but it's better than the WAC and that's their only other option. I have no doubt that Denver was one of the top-three choices for the Valley, and that they got an informal phone call sounding them out to gauge their interest, but I'm convinced that Belmont was already their first choice and the gap between them and Denver has widened into a chasm after the Denver phone call. And unless there is a second news report out there that I haven't seen, Belmont never denied interest in the Valley. Belmont just said the Valley hadn't (officially) contacted them, and that they were happy with the OVC. What else would they say on the eve of their first OVC conference tourney appearance? Belmont's going to get a Valley invite within a week of Creighton giving official notice that they're leaving and Belmont is going to accept it. As for Oakland, the only way they get into the Horizon is if Detroit* gets poached by the A-10. On paper, that seems like a real possibility considering the current A-10 footprint. But take a look at the A-10 footprint after you remove the schools that are already leaving and the ones that will probably be poached by the new Big East. If the NBE ends up taking all four of Butler, Xavier, St. Louis and Dayton, then all of a sudden the A-10 will once again live up to its moniker. It will consist of 10 members and will be entirely Atlantic based; every school will be from a state that has Atlantic coastline**. In this new A-10, Detroit would be the geographic outlier. Of course that doesn't preclude the A-10 from reaching west to take Detroit, but the conference will need to do some thinking about staying tight and east to create better long-term stability. So don't be surprised if rumors of the Summit's demise prove to be greatly exaggerated. I'm willing to put money that the only change to the Summit two years from now will be the addition of a 10th member. But I'm poor, so that bet isn't worth much. *Remember, Detroit has veto power over Oakland because they're in the same city and Detroit has had no problem using that power in the past. **I'm counting Pennsylvania's part of the Delaware Estuary as part of the Atlantic.

You mean hockey has been treated differently than other sports at UND‽ Come on ... I had to.

I think the post you were referring to was itself referring to my post about the NCAA not letting an FCS conference move up to FBS as a group. He was suggesting the FCS schools could sue the NCAA, not sue the B1G. edit: oops, just a bit too slow.

The current rule is that an FCS school cannot move to FBS without an invite from an FBS conference. That's why Georgia Southern and App State are currently waiting with bated breath for a phone call from the Sun Belt. Without an invite, they're stuck in FCS. That being said, these rules seem to be rewritten every two to four years. I think there have been at least three major rule changes just in the period since NDSU announced it's intention to move to DI. Just because a conference can't move up as a group today doesn't mean it won't be possible tomorrow.

A center hung scoreboard would be in the way for volleyball. Same reason the BSA/SHAC will never do BB & VB simultaneously. I suppose the roof on the Betty is high enough that you could fit a short scoreboard that can rise to the rafters and the height might be okay for VB, but would it be worth it? (very reduced advertising space)

Close, but just a tiny bit off on a couple details. A school from a lower division can participate in a DI sport if there is no divisional championship at that level. If there is only a single championship, it's normally called a national collegiate championship. Think rifle, skiing, or fencing. Hockey may be the only sport where there are enough teams for two championships(DI & DIII) but not all three(lacrosse used to be the same, but they now have tournaments in all three divisions). In addition, a DII school may play up a level in one men's and one women's sport as long as it isn't football or basketball. For example, let's look at a hypothetical SCSU. The Huskies currently play DI hockey because there are no DII championships; that doesn't count against them. They could also add rifle or bowling and it wouldn't count because there's only a national collegiate championship in those sports. Even with all those sports playing at the highest NCAA level possible, they could still move volleyball and baseball(or any men's and women's sport) to DI. In NDSU's case, we took advantage of this "loophole" to make wrestling and volleyball move up early in our DI move. The single-sport transition is only two years, so those two sports were tournament eligible three years before the rest of the department. I believe SDSU chose their S&D teams, but it's been a long time and I could be wrong. Many of us were shocked when UND chose not to take advantage of this "loophole" in your DI move. I was convinced you were going to submit the paperwork to declare your S&D teams eligible after two years, but it never happened. Don't know why. edit: Some of the above info is outdated. The ability to move up a single men's and women's sport was removed in 2011, after all of our schools had started moving up. Schools that were already doing it are allowed to continue(there's a good number of DII and DIII schools that play DI baseball), and you can still move up a second sport as long as it's gender counterpart was DI in 2011(say a DII school played DI women's tennis in 2011; they would still be allowed to start DI men's tennis). The stuff about national collegiate championships and ice hockey is still true.

Curious: Are you referring to Montana, NDSU or UND with these numbers? It's a little unclear with the way this discussion has unfolded.

Just a warning, but this debate is going to flare up again in a big way either in the next couple days or just after the championship game. It's not a big surprise to those who have been paying attention, but it's looking certain that Western Carolina is going to back out of next year's game at NDSU. That leaves NDSU to find at least one game to fill three possible dates: Sep 14, Sep 21, and Nov 2. Since UND has an opening on Sep 21, some fans are going to start talking, and the media is going to trot the possible matchup as a way to boost ratings/readership. It's not going to matter that UND already has 11 games scheduled or that an NDSU game would fall right in between Montana and Montana State on your schedule. People are still going to talk about it and inflict more damage on that poor horse's corpse. Joy.

We used to think the same thing. The Fargodome was completely neutral for our first DI tournament game against Robert Morris two years ago. We still did the entrance video, but once the game started it was handled like a neutral site game. Then we traveled to Montana State and Eastern Washington where they treated it like a regular home game. Either after those games or before the start of last years playoffs, NDSU asked the relevant NCAA division what the rule actually was. The answer was basically: "You've earned home site; treat it as such." Since then, we've ramped things up to the point of it being just like any other home game. Live and learn.

Reading comprehension is not sultan's strong suit. The article he's referencing doesn't say what he claims it does. The author of the article(Kevin Schnepf - not necessarily known as one of the sharpest sporks in the drawer) is the one saying NDSU should be facing an easier opponent. The only quote in the article from GT is in regards to something the chair of the selection committee said during the bracket announcement. The chair said SDSU was one of the last two teams in the field. GT happens to disagree with that(I happen to feel the same way). You, me and GT all know that geography is the primary factor when selecting matchups; it's Schnepf that doesn't seem to get it. (Kolpack & Izzo as well for that matter) Now, Schnepf uses GT's quote(probably a little out of context) to bolster his case, but that doesn't mean GT agrees with his premise. http://www.inforum.com/event/article/id/380816/

Medical redshirts happen when you are injured two or more times over two or more years. You don't get one for getting injured a single time after you've burned a year using a developmental redshirt. The NCAA manual is pretty clear on the issue. As far as they are concerned, the reason for the fifth year on the five year clock is to allow for an unexpected event that costs a player a season. When a player(and coach) decide to use that extra year for development, they're taking a gamble that it won't be needed for medical reasons. If an injury does happen, that gamble fails and the player is SOL. Here are the relevant portions of the DI manual: