Hammersmith

612 tests. It's 3 or 4 games a year, not 4 or 5. (2x3 + 7x4) x 18 = 612 Overall point still stands.

Doesn't work for the playoffs. The playoff roster is limited to 60. The NCAA has a 3rd party randomly select 18 players from the roster to be tested per playoff game(a new random selection each game). Over the four playoff games of the 2018 season, NDSU was tested 72 times. You probably have similar odds of winning a lottery than to completely avoid the two-deep over that many tests.

I put that in as something of a half joke. Along the lines of "lies, damn lies, and statistics". If I was being completely serious, I would argue that you can use facts to manipulate an audience by only using those that support your (false)argument, while ignoring or suppressing any facts that contradict it(there's a regular poster on here that does this all the time). In that situation, true facts would be those that completely describe the situation without bias. But that's more serious than we need to be in a smack thread.

What the family was very clear about, and what NDSU also released, is that whatever the banned substance was, it was a stimulant. Which means everyone who is saying or inferring it was a steroid or ostarine is calling the family liars. (looking at you geaux_sioux, gundy, Mama Sue, Siouxphan, etc.) I'm willing to believe the supplement contained a stimulant other than caffeine, but that scenario doesn't make all that much sense given the family's other statements. (widespread use in the locker room vs. only one positive result in 72 tests during the 2018 playoffs) But the reality is that true facts matter as much in threads like this(here or counterpart threads at BV) as they do in the world of politics(i.e. not at all).

I have to say that I find it amusing that the UND fans claiming to "defend" Brock and his family are actually calling them liars. And the NDSU fans are actually supporting the Robbins's family version of events. Makes me chuckle.

I was already typing out an update when you posted that.

Here we go. These are most of the numbers from last year(2018-2019 season / FY2019). Significant improvement, but several sports still not fully funded. 100% MIH FB MBB WBB WT&F VB 85+% WSoc WG SB WT - 94% <85% MT - 83% MT&F - ? MG - 33% https://www.grandforksherald.com/sports/4438530-year-after-cutting-sports-und-athletics-adjusting-slimmer-budget

Not sure if you don't understand or are being purposefully dense, but fully funded vs. not fully funded is about scholarships. A fully funded program is one that gives out the maximum number of scholarships allowed by the governing body(NCAA DI in our case). Or at least a program that allocates enough money to award all scholarships allowed(sometimes football or WBB might sit on a scholarship or two for recruiting reasons). NDSU has been fully funded across the board for a few years now. I believe men's golf or baseball was the last program to reach that mark. My understanding is that all the women's programs were fully funded from the first day of DI because of Title IX reasons. As for UND, it's been in the news repeatedly over the years that many of your programs are not fully funded. The most detailed and recent info I could find in a few minutes came from about 27 months ago. Things have improved(the Summit League required it), but I believe many programs are still not at 100% funding. I'll look a bit more to see if I can find info from last season. Scholarship funding levels as of the end of 2016-17 season: 100% MIH FB MBB WBB 85-100% VB (closer to 100% than 85%) WSoc 70% (these 3 were required to reach at least 85% by the fall of 2018) WG SB WT&F <70% MG MT&F MT WT https://www.grandforksherald.com/sports/4242553-und-cuts-womens-hockey-mens-and-womens-swimming

I think you didn't quite get what I was saying. I was creating a hypothetical where the oil boom never happened. In that specific case, I suggested that Fargo would be the only ND city with double digit growth, and most any growth in the other cities would be because of cannibalization. But obviously the oil boom did happen and the lion's share of the growth of BisMan, Minot, Will & Dick is because of it. I could be persuaded that BisMan would have decent growth even without the oil boom, but I think it would be much closer to the growth rate GF currently has.

It's easy and feels good to blame the flood because it was a natural disaster and thus no one's fault, but I don't think it is the true cause of the situation. I would suggest it was far more about the reduction of the GF AFB than the flood. If the jobs were there, everything else would have quickly followed. When it comes right down to it, GF will never be able to compete directly against Fargo for one simple reason: I-94. A city with two interstate highways will always have a huge advantage over a city with only one. Same thing with rail lines. Without the development of oil out west, Fargo would likely be the only ND city with double digit growth. And any growth in GF, BisMan or Minot would have been just rural to urban cannibalization. It is what it is. Since it's unlikely that we'll find a major new resource under NE ND, to change things, GF would have to bring in a new, major industry that needs a large workforce. And that's a hard sell. If the industry is something that uses local materials, why not chose Fargo which has easier shipping access? If it doesn't use local materials, why choose an area where a workforce is hard to find? Go somewhere where unemployment is higher. If GF tries to leverage its available assets like the AFB or UND's aviation department, why should most aviation companies chose a location with bad weather and difficult access over a location like TX, NV, CA or others? And the industries that do choose to build in GF are likely going to be highly automated and not bring in that many new jobs. I grew up in Wahp during the glory years of 3M, WCCO and NDSCS at it's height. Since then, 3M shut down, WCCO shrank and automated, and NDSCS scaled way back due to funding changes in Bismarck. The city lost around a quarter of it's jobs and population. In the decade that followed, a couple new plants were built, including a corn processing plant. People thought it could be the start of bringing things back. But the corn plant and the other new ventures were so highly automated that it didn't mean much to the community. What's the addition of 100 jobs when you're trying to recover from losing 2,000? Stark reality: A single new project in Fargo(Aldevron) is likely to bring in more new jobs to Fargo(>800) than every current new project in GF combined that's beyond the drawing board stage. I just don't know how you compete with that. But you probably should look to UND(Aldevron was started by two NDSU students and was an early tenant of the NDSU R&D Park). https://www.inforum.com/business/technology/1355795-Fargo-biotech-firm-announces-major-expansion-to-add-189000-square-feet-employ-over-1000

I agree with northernraider in using MSAs instead of individual cities. By that respect, GF's growth rate is towards the bottom of the four-state MSA(ND, SD, MN, MT) and the ND micropolitan statistical areas. Here is the list for the sake of discussion: (sorted by growth rate) MSA Growth 2010-18 2018 Pop +53.30% Williston* 34,337 +32.79% Dickinson* 32,133 +17.58% Fargo 245,471 +16.38% Sioux Falls 265,653 +15.60% Bismarck 132,678 +13.21% Minot 78,723 +10.51% Rapid City 148,749 + 8.68% Missoula 118,791 + 8.37% Minneapolis 3,629,190 + 8.02% Billings 171,677 + 6.25% Rochester 219,802 + 5.66% St. Cloud 199,801 + 5.07% Mankato 101,647 + 3.90% Grand Forks 102,299 + 0.39% Great Falls 81,643 + 0.14% Jamestown* 21,129 + 0.13% Wahpeton* 22,927 - 0.35% Duluth 278,799 *designated as micropolitan statistical areas(μSAs); all others are metropolitan statistical areas(MSAs) this list includes all ND/SD/MN/MT MSAs and all ND μSAs

You guys should be following your T&F athletes. Molly Detloff had the 4th best hammer throw at the NCAA West Prelims in Sacramento today. She'll be heading to the nationals in Texas in June. Kyley Foster will be competing in the pole vault tomorrow. https://dt8v5llb2dwhs.cloudfront.net/West/index.htm

There was bill in the legislature this year that included a requirement that part(half?) of any money from a sale of Ray Richards go to fund the men's golf team. I think it passed, but I'm not positive. Of course that would only go into effect if UND actually sells the property.

Didn't realize the new T&F hire was covering both men's and women's programs. I don't know if the GFH article I was reading was unclear about that point, or if I just skimmed past it and assumed the consolidation was about the CC and T&F programs instead of men's and women's programs. Honestly, I don't know if UND's decision on this matter is good or bad for the program. I'd be worried it's about money. By encouraging two long-time head coaches to leave and replacing them with a young head coach and a new assistant, that has the smell of budget reductions. But time will tell. (Ouch, just compared the two coaching staffs. Four paid T&F/CC coaches at UND, six paid at NDSU plus three volunteers.) As for why I think NDSU will come out higher in total female coaches, it's like this: The schools are currently at 10 total(2+8) for UND and 9(1+8) for NDSU. But at UND, I counted the current T&F and VB assistant staffs. Now it's possible the new hires will add to the net number of female coaches, but it's just as possible, even likely, that there won't be any net change. On the other hand, NDSU has zero assistants listed for the WBB program, so I didn't count anyone. If Kory brings even two paid female assistants(out of four - highly likely), that would put the total at 10 for UND and 11 for NDSU. It's true that we won't know for certain for another four months, but I think the odds favor more total female coaches at NDSU come the start of the school year. But I'd also say I'm not thrilled with the number of female coaches at either of the schools, especially in head coaches. The rumor is that NDSU first offered the WBB job to the Drake assistant (female), but she turned it down in favor of a promotion back at Drake. The other woman among the finalists was clearly the number 4 choice(of 4), so Kory was the next best choice since he had head coaching experience. I think Lynn Dorn tried to hire a woman for soccer when she forced Pete C. out, but I don't think she got any qualified female applicants. And Darin M. has been doing such a great job at softball that his job is safe until he decides to leave(plus all three of his assistants are women). Same goes for the T&F position. Anyway, none of this is meant to be argumentative, just informative. I happened to see NDSU mentioned in a post along the side of the main page and got curious as to the actual situation. Been wondering about the real numbers for awhile, but was too lazy to actually look the stuff up. This gave me the excuse to finally do it.

I realize you probably don't really care about the answer, but the final tally will probably be that UND has more female head coaches, while NDSU has more female coaches overall. I say probably because our new WBB coach and your new VB and T&F coaches haven't completed their new staffs yet; not even started for NDSU WBB and UND VB. Current tally is 2 UND female head coaches(golf and T&F) to NDSU's 1(VB). The assistant coach tally is currently tied at 8. I'm not counting volunteers or grad assistants. UND has 7 women's sports to NDSU's 6(in this case, counting CC, IT&F and OT&F as a single sport since both schools use a single head coach for all three). So there's a bunch of almost useless info.

Not really sure what the point of this post was. The format didn't help it any. I think the quicker way to say it would be that the average Summit and Big Sky MBB coaching salaries are among the lowest in DI. Not the very bottom, but only a few spots from it. And UND was the lowest or second lowest in the Big Sky, and will likely be the second or third lowest in the Summit. After looking at more salaries, I think I have to revise my earlier thoughts. I had UND at bottom 25%, maybe bottom 15%. Now I'm thinking bottom 15%, maybe bottom 10%. Especially when you factor in the pool for assistants(someone on a different board reported $160k split between 4 assistant coaches). Have to face that it will be tough to win at UND without being able to get or keep good assistants. Continuity and quality will be very difficult to maintain. As for all the schools listed in the post above, maybe this format will be easier to understand. I also updated salaries when newer numbers were available, or noted how out of date the numbers were if I couldn't find a newer one. I tried to use base salaries for the most part unless the only recent number available was total. Wichita St - $3.5M SDSU - $350k base Weber - $345k+ base (3 years out of date) Vermont - $309k base Sac St - $290k total USD - $265k base NDSU - $195k base (3 years out of date) UNH - $185k base Montana - $175k base (negotiating again this year) Omaha - $175k base Maine - $165k base Mont St - $158k+ base (2 years out of date - $200k+ w/ bonuses) UND - $140k base (2 years out of date) EWU - $140k base Here are the Summit schools: SDSU - $350k base USD - $265k base ORU - was $435k under Sutton, now mid $200s Denver - $230k base (1 year out of date) NDSU - $195k base (3 years out of date) Omaha - $175k base UND - $140k base (2 years out of date) PUFW - $132k base (3 years out of date) WIU - $132k base To me it looks like four tiers. SDSU is all by itself at the top. USD, ORU and Denver are clustered in the mid $200s. Then NDSU and Omaha are in the high $100s. Finally, you have UND, PUFW & WIU all hanging around near $135k-$140k.

Todd Lee base salary around $265k. That was from May 2018 and only what he got from the state. If he has incentives or external monies, I don't think it would be part of the $265k. TJ at SDSU was listed at $350k on the same BoR report. If there was any way to get a true apples to apples comparison, I'd expect to see UND in the bottom 25% of DI coaching salaries(including budgets for assistants).; maybe even bottom 15%. I figure NDSU is no better than 10% above whatever UND is. So if UND is bottom 25%, NDSU is bottom 35% or worse. Neither school is anywhere near as good a position as most of their respective fans think. IMO.

Nope. Only 84 schools on the list. If you click on the methodology link, it tells you it's just the P5 schools plus any school that's been in the tourney three out of the last five years. Probably all of the top 50 coaches are on there, but you can't take anything else from it. At a guess, I'd say that $300k gets you around the 250-275 region out of 347.

Wrong. Those are only the salaries of the 68 coaches that made the NCAA tourney that year. There are lots of coaches missing that make more than $300k. It's also why the numbers might be different. USA Today normally does the same ranking every year among tourney teams. The one with Jones is from 2017; the other might be from 2018. I don't think anyone does the whole list of 347 coaches. I looked earlier this week and could only find the USA Today list.

You are correct; hockey is not a head-count(or full scholarship) sport. The only head-count sports are FBS FB, MBB, WBB, WGym, WVB & WTen. (Bylaws 15.5.2, 15.5.5 & 15.5.6). MIH is considered an equivalency sport like all the rest. However MIH has the additional requirement of no more than 30 counters(players receiving any amount of scholarship). So 18 scholarships split over 30 student-athletes, much like 63 scholarships over 85 student-athletes in FCS FB. The applicable bylaw is 15.5.7, and it hasn't changed in over 25 years. (8/1/93)

Thanks, that's the guy.

I had a question about the athletic department and didn't want to start a new topic. IIRC, you guys had a fantastic director of the Fighting Sioux Club back in the 90s. I was trying to remember his name, but I'm coming up blank in my memory and in google searches. Josh Morton comes to mind, but I thought he was director in the late 2000s, not the 90s. Unless maybe he left and then came back? Anyway, I'm pretty sure the guy I'm trying to remember came just before Sarah Newgard(found her name in an old media guide). Pat Simmers is retiring as director of Team Makers this May, and I wanted to use the name of your old director as the type of person we should be looking for. IIRC, he transformed the FSC into a professional fundraising organization and was well-liked and respected by most everyone while he was at UND. Just wish I could remember his name. Thanks.

Cough. https://msudenver.edu/early-bird/2019/03/18-dii-vote.shtml (sorry everyone, just had to )

All $31,200?

Not former, but not on the roster. Apparently a UND student athlete that works with the team during spring practice. At least according to a recent GFH article. And it was only posted here because that's were the debate seems to be. And only facts to resolve things thrown about.