82SiouxGuy

Entertainment value is an even worse basis for your vote than emotion.

All of the posts will normally be read by at least one moderator. As Siouxman said, if we live by the rules it shouldn't matter. And if we don't it will be addressed, so again it won't matter.

This paragraph from the 2013 site announcement explains the NCAA policy.

Proud isn't exactly the work I would use to describe anything to do with this issue at this point.

Actually, I would expect a vote on a constitutional amendment would have less of a chance than a regular law. North Dakota residents have been hesitant to put fluff in the constitution. But that could change with a special election. You never know who is going to vote in a special election so it would just depend on who did a better job of getting out the vote.

That is a separate issue. That would be a vote on a potential constitutional amendment which would overrule any current law regarding the legislature control over the SBoHE.

I think they were just complaining because they knew they couldn't get near that amount of money. They must have been planning an ad campaign since it is on the web site today, just a day after the story complaining about the Alumni campaign.

If it were done multiple times it might be a problem. Fixing a short term problem with a fluke pick up doesn't set a precedent.

It is on the GF Herald web site also. It basically just says keep the name vote no. It doesn't really give any reasons. It's interesting that they were complaining because the Alumni Association was going to spend money on advertising to have people Vote YES, but didn't mention this campaign. And the link doesn't work from the Herald site either.

Because they put in the bid. I'm sure that being the closest school to the venue doesn't hurt. And they have a history of putting on successful tournaments.

If the law was defeated and the nickname goes away would the Supreme Court have a need to proceed? In that case the main reason for bringing the challenge would be gone. The larger issue of control, whether the SBoHE has control of higher education, would still be unanswered. But the case wouldn't have an actual law that would be challenged. Also, with the nickname issue being removed, there wouldn't be an immediacy to the issue. Even if a case were going to proceed, wouldn't it have to go through the entire process and start at the District Court level rather than go directly to the Supreme Court? Not an attorney so I thought I would ask the questions.

The State Board of Higher Education would probably have to challenge again, and that is unlikely if the law goes away.

Your second paragraph is the reason that I continue to pound away on this issue. I know that a lot of people are not as well informed as the people that participate here on a regular basis. But there are a lot of guests that stop and read these forums. They need to see the facts. And they aren't going back pages and pages, most are only going to read the last page or 2. So I address issues as they are brought up even though I am repeating myself constantly. We have had 2 people post on this forum in the past week that obviously didn't have many facts. Hopefully they have better information now.

In reality, UND and NDSU probably both should have jumped when UNI did. But as tSic said, the Native American policy applied to all levels. It wouldn't surprise me if the transition were part of the discussions between the NCAA and UND or the state in some form. But it boiled down to getting tribal approval within a specified time period. UND had 2 different time periods, the original appeal period and the settlement period. They couldn't get the needed approval needed during either period. Other schools got tribal approvals within the required appeal time period.

For whatever reason, it wasn't a fight that any of them wanted. Maybe they didn't see UND winning against the NCAA. The Florida people made noise and the NCAA set up an appeal process. UND couldn't get through that process. Maybe the North Dakota delegation didn't think they could get the NCAA to move any further. Or maybe they thought they had more important things to worry about in the country than a college sports nickname.

Even if all 4 did join the WAC, that would only give them 6 schools spread pretty much all across the country. Not a great way to run a conference as UND saw in the Great West.

He will also throw in references to Nazis, PC zealots or some other name calling to distract from his lack of actual facts (other than the fact that he really, really, really likes the nickname).

You are wrong on so many levels.

No, Dave. You made a blatantly false statement. You can't provide proof for that statement, so now you try to change the statement. There are no semantics involved. Again, here is your actual statement. Where is your proof that this is a true statement? If it isn't a true statement then your premise is false.

People actual working in the situation who should know what is happening say truth. Anonymous poster on internet who isn't involved with the school, whose only connection to the school is an obsession with the nickname and logo says lies. Who are you going to believe?

Here is the ad in question. I believe there may be others also.

This is the statement from the settlement that the NCAA later posted on their web site. I don't know if it is still there. The support of the Native American community, as defined by the settlement, would be the approval of both Spirit Lake and Standing Rock. UND never got the approval of Standing Rock. Is that what you were looking for?

You really haven't paid attention through the years, have you. I'll try another history lesson. The NCAA announced their Native American policy in August of 2005. The appeal process came out shortly after that. All that was needed was written proof from someone in a single tribe that had authority to sign for that tribe. They ended up accepting appeals well into 2006. Spirit Lake had issued a statement in 2000 saying that they did not object to UND using the nickname as long as something good was being done at UND. By 2005 there were some people questioning whether Spirit Lake was going to remove that approval. When the NCAA issued their policy and the appeal process they required every tribe that was going to give approval to send in that written documentation. The Seminoles did that, even though they had given approval years before. So did the Utes in Utah and others. Spirit Lake was silent. They refused to talk to President Kupchella or anyone with the State Board of Higher Education. They refused to communicate with the NCAA. All they had to do was send a letter with a single sentence saying something like "The 2000 approval by the Tribal Council is still in effect". Pretty simple, but they wouldn't do it. The press wasn't involved at all, other than someone from the Herald trying to get a quote. The Tribal Council spoke by not saying anything to help. Standing Rock also had the opportunity to help at that time in place of Spirit Lake, they said they wanted the name removed. Since UND couldn't get approval from any tribe, the NCAA was ready to put them on sanctions. UND sued to fight the policy, mainly based on how the process worked to implement the policy. During the trial process the NCAA changed their process so that they could re-implement the policy and do it according to their bylaws. That forced UND to agree to a settlement because they weren't going to win anything meaningful. The settlement gained UND another 3 years to get approval, in exchange they had to get approvals from both Spirit Lake. At the time Spirit Lake was questionable at best and Standing Rock was very doubtful. A group at Spirit Lake managed to push through a vote, which showed that there was support on the reservation. The Tribal Council still didn't want to provide the written approval needed by the settlement. Actually, the settlement didn't ask for the vote. Again the settlement said that the NCAA knew about the 2000 statement and all they asked for was written proof that the statement was still valid. But since the Tribal Council refused to act, the tribe members forced the vote and then forced the Tribal Council to send the written approval. Standing Rock continued to refuse to even discuss the issue. They stayed with their policy asking UND to remove the nickname. The 3 years of the settlement ended and that was where the issue stood and still stands today. Standing Rock wasn't going to change their policy. The NCAA isn't going to change their policy. UND is on sanctions and will remain their until the nickname is changed. All of that media attention at Spirit Lake was after the settlement. Scott was referring to the period in 2005-2006 when Spirit Lake could have stopped all of this nonsense with a single written sentence. No media fuss, no muss. Spirit Lake refused to do that, and now a group from their is causing most of the fuss because they pushed to force the vote. Sorry, I have no sympathy for them. It's interesting the crap you make up. I haven't predicted any vote totals on this board, and certainly wouldn't predict anything like 95%. A friend asked me today what I thought was going to happen with the vote. I told him about the Forum poll that had the Yes votes at 56%. Then I said that with the margin for error, and the fact that we don't know about undecideds, I believe it is too close to call right now. I think the Alumni Foundation ads will help because I believe there are a significant number of people that haven't been paying close attention and don't know all of the facts. The ads could sway some of that crowd. And I certainly wouldn't be spending nearly this much time trying to educate people if I thought the vote was already sewn up. I just hope that a majority votes Yes, and it would be better if it were more than just a small majority. Again, you haven't told us what is going to be gained by making a huge symbolic gesture. How does it help UND? How does it force the NCAA to back down? How does it get UND off sanctions? How does it do anything for UND other than make you and some other people feel good about keeping the "magical" nickname and logo? All it would do is keep UND on sanctions, weaken the athletic department, chase away quality recruits, lose money for the athletic department, and has the potential to get UND kicked out of the Big Sky. Why would we knowingly weaken or damage the athletic department when we know that the NCAA is not going to back down and has every legal right to do what they are doing? It makes absolutely no sense to do what you are proposing.

They'll stay if they are making money. Grand Forks is stealing a lot of passengers from Winnipeg and southern Manitoba. If they continue that trend United will make money and will be happy. This should cut travel time for people going west, which will be appealing to many people.

Yes, your attitude is.