82SiouxGuy

Why would I bother listing examples for you when you won't accept a single one of them as a fact. But don't worry, it wouldn't include things like the fact that you're willing to destroy a college athletic department rather than give up a simple sports nickname. It wouldn't include calling people Nazi's, or PC zealots, or morons, or any other names just because they disagree with you. It wouldn't include the fact that you make up word definitions, and try to change what you've said when you are proven to be wrong. It wouldn't include any of those things because in your world you don't do those things.

Now you think that 15 Native American tribes voting against UND using the nickname is political correctness? 15 tribes in the region have said that they don't want UND using the nickname. 1 tribe has said that they want UND to use the nickname. If you want to support the honors of the tribes, wouldn't it make sense to follow the wishes of 15 tribes over 1? Not if the single tribe wants the same thing you want. Then the other 15 tribes don't matter. That makes sense for you, since the athletes and alumni of UND don't matter to you either, only what you want matters.

It isn't a scam. There are sanctions already in place, most of their effects have not been felt as of yet. The sanctions will have a damaging effect on the University of North Dakota. This isn't a stand and fight issue. The University loses either way. It loses more by keeping the nickname. The NCAA wins either way. UND giving up the nickname isn't going to have a major damaging effect on the tribes. Therefore, the least damaging effect is for UND to retire the name. You people that claim this is about supporting the tribes, what about all of the other tribes that want UND to get rid of the nickname? Spirit Lake is the only tribe that supports the nickname. Every other Sioux tribe has come out against the nickname. The other non-Sioux tribes in the Great Plains Tribal Chairmen's Association have all voted against the nickname. Why does it seem convenient that you only support the tribe that wants the same thing as you want, and you don't support the other 15 or so tribes in the region that votes against what you want?

I will let the list of symptoms speak for themselves.

One more thing on the subject. There was a deadline in 2006 for UND to appeal being on the sanctions list. That was 6 years ago. At the deadline UND had received 0 approvals from tribal governments. Tribal approval was said to be very significant in the appeal process. At this point, 6 years later, is it really important whether the number of approvals needed by UND was 1, 2 or 25? UND didn't receive a single tribal approval during the appeal process. They didn't meet the standard no matter what it was.

There never was an official document released to the public stating any of the criteria. I don't know what was sent to the schools. Each case was going to be decided on a case by case basis. In one of the articles I linked it said that name-sake tribe approval would be a significant element, and that this approval was the only criteria that the group could agree on. The NCAA used language straight from the Florida State appeal. Please provide some evidence showing that UND needed more than 1 tribe during the original appeal process. I have provided evidence that every single successful appeal included approval from a single tribe, even if there were other tribes within the region.

How about Catawba College? It's located in North Carolina. There are no Catawba Indians left in North Carolina. According to your definition, Catawba wouldn't have gotten approval from the NCAA. The main band of Catawba is located in South Carolina. That tribe gave approval to Catawba and the NCAA gave them approval to use the name Catawba Indians. Again I will repeat, every school that got approval from a single tribe won their appeal. UND didn't get that approval. If the NCAA had used a different criteria for UND it would have been used in the lawsuit because UND would have been held to a different standard. It wasn't used.

There are at least 4 Chippewa tribes in Michigan. Central Michigan got approval from the Saginaw Band, as it states in the article from insidehighered.com linked above. Not any of the other tribes. It only took the single tribe. Tribe refers to a band, not all Sioux or Chippewa. There is another Ute tribe in Colorado, but only the Northern Ute tribe in Utah.

And some more, http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2005/09/06/mascot. From the same article. The linked story in the last paragraph is, http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/9145566/. So, UND did not have support from any of the Sioux tribes during the appeal period in 2005-2006 and that is why the UND appeals failed.

All schools on the Native American policy list had an appeal period during 2005-2006. They needed to get approval from a local tribe as a part of their appeal. They only needed approval from a single name-sake tribe. That was the same deal as Florida State, Utah, Central Michigan and the other schools that won their appeals. All schools that got approval from a name-sake tribe won their appeal. Not one school won an appeal without the tribe approval. UND couldn't get any of the tribes to provide the written approval that the NCAA wanted. http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2005-08-20/sports/0508200087_1_american-indian-mascots-arthur-kirk-tribal-support The need for 2 tribes approval was the result of suing the NCAA and being forced to settle the lawsuit. UND got several extra years to get approval, every other school had to get their approval by the 2006 deadline while UND got until November 30, 2010.

So, you don't think that Coach Hakstol knows what he's talking about? Or Earl Strinden, former Speaker of the North Dakota House of Representatives, former head of the UND Alumni Foundation, a board member for Ralph Engelstad Arena, and a close friend of Ralph Engelstad?

From the Alumni Review, http://www.undalumni.org/document.doc?id=2023.

The problem is that you don't seem to know the difference between a "fact" and an "opinion". Everything is an opinion to you, even the definition of words.

I don't know you at all. All I know is the behavior and attitudes that you exhibit on this board.

Dave says: The National Institute of Health uses this as a more complete definition, http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0001930/. The Mayo Clinic says, http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/narcissistic-personality-disorder/ds00652/dsection=symptoms.

Which is exactly what a narcissist would probably say.

It doesn't have anything to do with self-importance, it has to do with being selfish. It has to do with thinking that the only thing that is important is what you want. Just about everything you talk about comes back to you and what you want and anyone else can go to hell. It has to do with not having empathy for any one else like athletes, students, coaches, staff, faculty, alumni and other fans. If they don't agree with you you throw them under the bus. It has to do with the fact that you believe you know better than people that are actually involved in the process. It has to do with your belief in unreal outcomes such as when you thought the Spirit Lake lawsuit was going to bring the NCAA to its knees and destroy it when just about everyone told you they had little chance to win anything. It has to do with not being able to take responsibility for simple statements that you have made. It has to do with your trying to demonize everyone that disagrees with you, throwing out terms like Nazi, zealot, moron, etc.

A revised version of the article is up now. Soderstrom is going to base his appeal on the pipe ceremony and his assertion that the ceremony should make the tribes "indispensable parties" to the dispute. He also wonders if he tried to throw too much stuff into the original lawsuit. He says that he has 40 days to file his brief, and the NCAA will have to file another brief. He didn't know if the court would hear oral arguments. He felt that a final decision would be reached "by the end of the year". He won't admit it, but obviously he is trying to get more publicity and build false hope for his supporters to get votes and maybe to help get signatures on the petition. There isn't enough evidence to support the pipe ceremony in a court of law, and the tribes were not party to the contract so they don't have standing to sue.

I hope that your auger can turn 90 degrees and go sideways, because you aren't going to get a lot out of a single, small hole. It probably wouldn't pay for a room out there with the prices they are charging around Williston.

Tim O'Keefe also answers the critics charges and explains why the Alumni Association is working to help retire the nickname, http://www.grandforksherald.com/event/article/id/237760/group/Opinion/.

Just keep saying that and eventually someone will believe it. Of course the folks at SDSU and USD may not.

He also played a major role in helping push the law through the Legislature last year. Even Earl has realized the futility of continuing to fight the NCAA.

Not anywhere in public. He just mentioned having to get the University Presidents involved, which really doesn't make much sense.

The game is good for the state, and there is plenty of interest across the state. The fact that Taylor keeps moving the goal posts isn't a guarantee that it isn't in NDSU's best interest. But it could indicate a more personal reason, such as he may be holding the same petty, childish grudge as many NDSU fans.