82SiouxGuy

And that matters how? The NCAA didn't ask for a vote, they don't care. They wanted something from all of Standing Rock, not just the portion that is in Sioux County. Not all of Sioux County are tribal members. And it is past the deadline so it is too late for Standing Rock to change their position even if they wanted. The vote is meaning less to the NCAA in Sioux County, and in Grand Forks County, and in every county in the state of North Dakota.

They probably will. Several of us have said that multiple times. You know what, they have the ability to do that. And nothing that happens with the vote on the Fighting Sioux nickname is going to affect that either way. The NCAA is still a membership organization and they can make any rules they want as long as the members don't get too upset. We know that the members supported the current policy, because they had a chance to remove it by keeping their decision making process the way it was, but they passed the new decision making policy by a super-majority. So the membership will probably also support extending the Native American policy, and there is nothing that can be done about it except leave the NCAA.

Thank you.

3 pretty good seasons by UND goalies in the last 10 years. Jordan Parise Season Team Lge GP A PIM Min GA EN SO GAA W L T Svs Pct 2005-06 U. of North Dakota WCHA 33 3 6 1959 68 0 6 2.08 24 8 1 943 0.933 Jean-Philippe Lamoureux 2007-08 U. of North Dakota WCHA 42 1 8 2508 73 0 6 1.75 27 11 4 1004 0.932 Aaron Dell 2010-11 U. of North Dakota WCHA 40 2 0 2349 70 0 6 1.79 30 7 2 857 0.924

Some of them are also institutionalized.

I will repeat something I learned as a child, and something I have posted here many times. LIFE ISN'T FAIR! No, it probably isn't fair that UND has to change the nickname. But is it fair that the athletes and coaches at UND have to live with the sanctions? They will if UND doesn't change the name. What do you base your belief about the schools not scheduling UND only lasting for a short time. Did you know that Wisconsin and Minnesota have had those policies in place since well before the NCAA created their policy? Both Wisconsin and Minnesota modified their policies to match the NCAA policy. But they have both been on the record for over 15 years opposing schools using Native American names. The only exceptions were for school in their conference or for games that they were required to play because of their conference or national tournament play. They aren't going to change their policies. They will only play UND in tournament games for hockey, and will never play UND in other sports. That will hurt recruiting and also marketing in the Minneapolix area. You have admitted to being part of the hockey only crowd. It is that group that has helped push this issue to the point we are at now. That group believes the sanctions won't affect men's hockey, and therefore they don't care whether it affects any other sports. It doesn't matter that it will hurt women's hockey as soon as next year, it will hurt football, and it will hurt other sports. That group is also short sighted in thinking it won't affect UND hockey. It will hurt recruiting because of not playing name schools like Minnesota and Wisconsin. It will hurt recruiting because other schools will tell recruits that UND is on sanctions, and that word alone will scare away recruits. Losing recruits, especially top end recruits, will probably make it more difficult to win games which will result in more losing. Losing means less fans in the stands and less money for the school. And there is always the possibility that college hockey will change the playoff system. There has been discussion about having first round games played back on college campuses since most regionals don't attract large crowds. UND would not be allowed to host such a game. Even the hockey coach has come out and said it is time to retire the nickname. Hakstol explained that it will hurt the hockey program. So has former hockey player Tim O'Keefe. They are looking out for the best interests of the school and the hockey program. Yet you believe it is important to keep the name. If you can't come up with some concrete information, some facts, and a basis for your "feeling" that games against schools like Minnesota and Wisconsin will come back, then you are only dealing from emotion and not making a wise decision for the good of the school. That is not acceptable and that is the reason that so many of us are working hard to retire the name now.

They haven't started the ticket push yet. Most of thei effort has been working with returning season ticket holders. I know that we just renewed our season tickets for football and hockey in the past week. The push for new season ticket holders starts after they finish the returning group because then they know what seats are actually available, it is hard to sell the tickets unless the people are able to actually pick their seats at the same time.

As UNDBIZ and jdub point out, there are 2 very important wins for NDSU in getting this game started again. One is the increased revenue available for a premium game. Most college programs already do this and bring in hundreds of thousands of extra dollars without any extra cost. The fact that UND would be coming without any cost is additional money to the bottom line for NDSU. In other posts I have pointed out how NDSU could actually make more money with a home and home with UND versus 2 home games with cream puffs that cost a lot to bring in from across the country. The even bigger win is the public relations. A UND-NDSU football game gets the attention of the vast majority of people in North Dakota. No other event in the state garners that kind of attention. Most TVs in the state would be tuned to a UND-NDSU game. This would be much bigger PR in North Dakota and in the the adjoining areas of surrounding states than winning the National Championship. It is hard to imagine that people don't recognize the possibilities of this game.

It's Bville collective thinking. A majority of them spout the same things over and over again. Much of Bville is a football only crowd just like the hockey only crowd that exists on this board and at UND.

I was using delusion as a collective. His entire world seems to be a delusion, with everything based on his wants and needs rather than reality and the greater good.

Then tell us how UND can win. Tell us how the NCAA can be defeated. Tell us what can be done to eliminate the sanctions. If you can't provide more than an opinion, if you can't provide something based on facts rather than emotion, then you have nothing to add to this discussion. This is now a business decision and using emotion to keep the nickname is not a good policy.

You need to get your facts straight and so does your friend. Tribal governments are run much like governments in the rest of the country. The governing body, in this case the Tribal Council, makes the decisions for the entire tribe. Some tribes allow a referendum or initiative, and some don't. Across the country approximately half of the states allow some form of initiative and/or referendum and half don't. The United States Federal government does not allow initiatives or referendums. When have you ever voted on an issue that was being decided by the United States Congress? Never, the correct answer is never. Standing Rock does not have referendum or initiatives in their Tribal Constitution. Matters at Standing Rock are decided by the Tribal Council. The Tribal Council has officially been on the record since 1992 stating that they are opposed to UND using the Fighting Sioux nickname. As Ira said, they have had many elections during that time and could have elected people during that time to change the policy. As a matter of fact, they had an election after the settlement was signed, and before the deadline. They decided after that election to continue the policy being opposed to the UND nickname. A group got a petition together to get approval for the nickname and had it signed by 1004 tribe members. The opposition put together a separate petition asking the Tribal Council to keep the policy opposing the nickname. They got 1012 signatures. Both groups tried to turn in their petitions, but the Tribal Council agreed to table the matter and not address either petition. The settlement agreement set up how the NCAA would accept approval from the 2 tribes. At Spirit Lake they recognized that the Tribal Council had given approval in 2000. All they requested was written confirmation that this approval was still in existence. As a matter of fact, Spirit Lake could have given that written approval in 2005 or 2006, during the appeal process, and this whole issue would have been decided. We wouldn't be arguing about the issue and UND would not be on sanctions. UND would be in the same status as Florida State. Spirit Lake refused to provide that letter. All they had to do was write a letter saying "Yes, the approval is still effective." They wouldn't do it. They wouldn't address the issue at all until some of the tribe members forced the initative (which Spirit Lake recognizes in their Tribal Constitution). Even after the vote the Tribal Council was reluctant to provide the written confirmation until forced by the tribe members. The settlement states that Standing Rock can decide approval in any way acceptable in their Tribal Constitution, and then relay the approval in written form to the NCAA. The Tribal Council is the only way to give approval for something like this at Standing Rock. As I said earlier, they have repeatedly stated that they do not approve of the use. There is no other way to get tribal approval, and nothing else that could be done to get that approval. Standing Rock Tribal Council members refuse to discuss the issue with tribe members, UND or state officials or the NCAA. They have made their decision. Furthermore, Standing Rock is not the only tribe with a policy opposing the Fighting Sioux nickname. Every Sioux tribe other than Spirit Lake has opposed the nickname as has the Great Plains Tribal Chairman's Association which is made up of the Tribal Chairs of approximately 15 or 16 tribes in the region. Again, Spirit Lake is the only tribe in the region that has given support for the nickname. And this issue has been active with the tribes since the 1960s or earlier. The effort to save the nickname now is not the first time that tribes have addressed the issue. Just because you or your friend have not been aware of this doesn't mean that it hasn't been happening.

The NCAA has already won. They have a policy in effect that is supported by a super-majority of their members. The policy is not going away, if anything it is going to get more inclusive. The NCAA has a signed agreement with the University of North Dakota, the State Board of Higher Education and the State of North Dakota saying that UND would live up to the policy and the settlement. The settlement eliminates any possible lawsuits unless the other party breaks the agreement. The NCAA isn't going to break the agreement. What do you believe is going to be gained by keeping the nickname? The NCAA sanctions are just starting to take effect. They are cumulative, the effects will get worse over time. The NCAA isn't going to back down from their policy, and there is no way to force them down. If you believe that the NCAA is going to back down or that the NCAA is going to weaken the sanctions, you are horribly wrong. The NCAA has a history of keeping sanctions in place. They have UND right where the NCAA wants it. Keeping the nickname will hurt the entire athletic department, including the hockey program (since you seem to be a hockey only fan). Minnesota and Wisconsin will not schedule hockey games with UND after this coming year. Losing major rivals, and 2 of the biggest schools in college hockey, is a major blow to the program. Other schools will probably take the same policy at some point, which will make it even worse. The people that you are calling "true Sioux fans" are not really University of North Dakota fans. If you are really a fan of the University of North Dakota you need to realize that keeping the nickname and continuing the sanctions is very bad for UND. It is time to retire the nickname.

Obviously that was done a couple of years ago. I believe the water features are a way to creatively use the water holding capacity that a project like this now has to account for in its design. A great example is the Choice Wellness Center project. They needed to have a certain amount of capacity to contain water runoff from large storms that runs off hard surfaces like roofs and parking lots because the storm sewers aren't designed to take all of it at one time. The Wellness Center project is large enough that they needed capacity on both ends of the property. The simple solution would have been water retention ponds on the north and south ends. Instead they are building an artificial stream that will run the entire west edge of the property. The stream will be available for canoes and kayaks in the summer and for skating or outdoor curling bonspiels in the winter. The stream will also be part of the property beautification rather than holding ponds hidden away. The park district already has water piped out to the golf course for irrigation, so they can run that water through the stream to maintain a minimum water level and to control issues like mosquito control. The water features in the Innovation Park project probably have a similar purpose.

I believe that he is really that delusional. He has been consistent in his delusion over the years.

Dell had a .924 save percentage in 2010-2011 which fits in your definition of "the norm". That was in 40 games with a 1.79 GAA. You appear to have some kind of grudge against Dell considering your original post on the subject.

A very good letter in the Grand Forks Herald from Ray Purpur. For those that don't know, Mr. Purpur is the deputy director of athletics at Stanford, is originally from Grand Forks, and a graduate of UND. He has a great deal of experience in collegiate athletics and has a much better idea about how the sanctions will affect UND athletics than anyone on the force-UND-to-keep-the-nickname side. The letter can be found at http://www.grandforksherald.com/event/article/id/237005/group/homepage/.

You are correct, that's where the computer center is supposed to go. At one time I had heard that there were some discussions with a private company that also wanted to build a computer data center that would go in that area. And I believe that the people at the Center for Innovation have been working on some other projects that could go in that area. I haven't heard any definite construction dates yet, but I would think that the first building(s?) would go up either this year or next.

Two very important paragraphs from that editorial. I think they cover the opinions of most on this forum. I hope that the actual vote goes this way.

Sorry, your guarantee is worthless. Show us some other examples of people that have the same crazy thoughts. And it's funny how your story changes. Changing the logo is bad. No, changing the logo is fine as long as it's a variation of an Indian head. You keep changing your story. It always boils down to whatever Dave wants. It doesn't have to make sense, it just has to be what Dave wants.

Few, if any, were willing to allow the University to be harmed by the sanctions. As people figured out that UND had lost, and that the sanctions would in fact go into effect, they changed their position on retiring the nickname. It has just taken different people different lengths of time to figure out that the fight was over. People are allowed to change their minds as they gather more information. Only a few, like Dave and Fetch and yababy, are willing to totally destroy the athletic department just to keep the nickname.

You are the only one that believes a team disappears if the nickname changes. No one else has ever said that. I defy you to find that in a quote from anyone else. And you avoided the question about the logos. In your lifetime they have used the Blackhawk logo, the geometric logo and the current logo. Just like the Sabres using several different logos. How can you possibly still be a fan since they have used several different logos?

This happens only in your bizarre little world. No one else believes this. Talk about delusional. Moving a team to a new city is a major change because you are going to new fans and alienating the old fans. But just changing nicknames, colors or logos does not. Earlier I brought up the fact that UND has used 3 different logos in your lifetime, and basically 2 nicknames (Sioux and Fighting Sioux). How is changing the nickname and logo now any different?

Your vote is an empty gesture that will make you feel good, harm the University, and in the end won't help anyone. You have been asked many times now what else could be done so that UND could keep the name without getting hurt. Your answer is this empty gesture to vote to keep the name. There are no more cards to play that would allow UND to keep the name without suffering sanctions. Spirit Lake had an opportunity to keep the nickname. They didn't act in time. They waited until the rules changed and UND then needed 2 tribes to approve. Spirit Lake was late to the party. They can't expect to change the rules of the game after the game is done. This issue isn't important to the majority of the tribe, it is important to a small committee. But they aren't looking out for the best interests of the University, they are looking out for their selfish interests. Don't try and force your self interests on an organization that doesn't want them. It is time to move on. Vote YES on Measure 4.

In your example every franchise, every college team, would be different every year because they all change players from year to year. That is a comparison to your example of Foreigner. The people involved change in both examples. So, how can you be a fan of any team? They constantly change out players and coaches. Teams changing names, colors, logos, etc. is something completely different. You are the only person on the planet that think they are at all similar. The University of North Dakota athletic program would not be completely reinvented if they change the name. The facilities, location, history and tradition won't change at all. The players and coaches would change about as much as a normal year. They have changed logos at least a couple of times during your lifetime, so another time shouldn't destroy your life. Even the nickname has changed in your life. UND just used Sioux for many years. It has only been the last decade or 2 that they added Fighting. So you have even survived a change in the nickname. And the team wasn't destroyed by changing the nickname or the logo. It won't when they retire this nickname either.