82SiouxGuy

I didn't believe most of what he said when we were in school. He hasn't gotten any better.

Good for you. Many of us donate to UND. Many of us have been part of UND, as a student, donor, season ticket holder or employee, for many years. We care about the University and the damage that will be done by being under sanctions. You obviously don't care about the University being damaged. I'm not going to waste time trying to convince you. We are going to continue to work to kill this issue. If the Yes vote fails it will go back to the Supreme Court and there is a decent chance it gets thrown out. And we will work to kill the proposed constitutional amendment. Because we are working to help the University instead of getting stuck in the past.

Poor Dave. Can't talk himself out of false statements he made, or false statements his heroes made, so he lashes out. Found one of those colleges yet? Just admit you were wrong and we will stop asking. It doesn't hurt, just admit it.

Your command of composition seems to be as bad as your logic. Sorry Dave, the sentence has a meaning and it is a false statement. Saying that NDSU didn't play Minnesota in a single year is a meaningless statement. Minnesota doesn't even play every team in the Big 10 every year. The statement says that NDSU has not played Minnesota. Spin it all you want, all you are going to do is get dizzy.

The Alumni Association is doing what is best for the University of North Dakota. The sanctions that UND is subject to by the NCAA will slowly destroy the athletic department. You don't have to believe me, but you can believe all of the coaches in the athletic department, they all support changing the name. Hakstol and Mussman have publicly said so. You can believe UND athletic hall of fame members that have said so. You can believe Dale Lennon, who has said that it is already causing recruits to avoid the school. You can believe Ray Purpur, a UND grad who has worked in college athletics for many years and is in the athletic department for Stanford. You can believe Jim Kleinsasser and his sister, very successful former UND athletes. The NCAA policy against Native American imagery is going to win. Either UND retires the name or the sanctions will destroy the athletic department. Most of us here on this site agree with the Alumni Association that the price of keeping the name is too high and it is time to retire the name. If you want more details I can provide you with all the details of the situation going back years.

This statement says "have not". It doesn't mean a specific year. It is inclusive. It means that NDSU has not ever played Minnesota. It is false. It is wrong. If they knew anything about sports at all they would have know that this is a false statement. All 3 games that NDSU played against Minnesota were news on every TV station in North Dakota and in every newspaper. They should have know that without by accident. They don't know anything about sports, yet you believe that they understand the actual damages that the sanctions will inflict on UND. They are wrong and so are you. It is time to move on and retire the nickname. Vote YES on Measure 4.

Words have meanings. Putting words together into sentences or statements helps communicate thoughts. This is a direct statement from your beloved press release, and the statement is either an outright lie or the proof that no one on the Committee knows anything about sports. In spite of the fact that they know nothing about sports, they are trying to tell UND how to run the Universities athletic department. This statement alone proves that the Committee should not have anything to say about what will or will not damage the University.

I would be scared if you agreed with me on anything at this point. I would be worried about Alzheimer's or a similar affliction. Your increasing delusions are somewhat alarming.

He probably accepted it as gospel without reading a single sentence. He may have seen the word lies and thought that somehow this rambling piece of fiction was a legitimate statement.

Here are your 2 quotes with the important sentences highlighted. They are not the same. Not even close. Are you having trouble reading also?

Actually that press release makes a lot of broad accusations, but doesn't have much for details. It does list a bunch of lies that I pointed out right under your post. It probably has more, I only skimmed it because I didn't have time to go through and find all of the lies that you posted here.

So now you believe that NDSU never played Minnesota in football? Is that because you can't admit that NDSU beat your favorite team in 2 out of 3 games and only lost by 1 in the other?

It looks like you would have failed logic, too, that is if you had gone to college. No Dave, we don't know that sports are the reason why the best colleges are able to provide quality educations. We also don't know that it isn't the reason why the best colleges are able to provide quality educations. There isn't enough information to determine either as a fact. We do know that all of the top colleges and universities have athletic programs. You said that they didn't. You were wrong. We can infer that having athletics helps provide a quality education, because all of them do, but the only way to prove it either way would be to eliminate athletics. Sane people don't want UND to do that.

No one is going to die if the games don't happen. But when the schools play on the same level there isn't a good reason not to play, especially when it could benefit both schools. You might want to find yourself a hobby. Trolling on the forum of a former rival is just about as childish as the grudge that you are holding from when you were 12. Maybe you should try volunteering. You can help others and make yourself feel good at the same time. I can help you find some volunteer opportunities if you are interested.

The fact that you can't prove a simple statement that you made ends the debate right there. And the smilies don't help your cause. You might want to check on the rules for debating, you seem to have the same grasp of those rules as you have of the legal system. You are now a cartoon of yourself. Congratulations.

Can't take the truth? Your favorite people are spreading lies. How hard is it to figure out that NDSU played Minnesota in football? Not only 1 time, they played them 3 times. In less than a decade. It was on TV and in all the newspapers. A bright 6 year old could have told them that. And read the settlement, it states right in the settlement that neither party can sue the other. That is a legal document. If UND tried to sue they would either be laughed out of court or charged with filing a frivolous lawsuit. Yet the esteemed legal counsel of your favorite people allowed them to put that into the statement. Do you want me to go on? Keep posting garbage like this and I will keep posting facts to counter. By the way, where is that great college that doesn't have sports? You keep forgetting to fill us in on the details.

It was 8 years ago. Grow up and be an adult. And if you don't think that NDSU would have dropped the game before they were done with the transition you are fooling yourself. There would have been an uproar to drop the games because "the Bison are so powerful and mighty" or some such garbage. When UND won a game, and you know that UND would have won a game some time, the uproar would have doubled.

I try very hard not to hold grudges. And I would never hold a grudge over something like that. The only time I've held a grudge for any length of time was over something personal, not whether someone didn't want to play my favorite football team. That is just petty. Did it really hurt NDSU that UND cancelled the games? Did NDSU miss out on playing any games, or were those games replaced? How much longer would NDSU have allowed the games to go on? NDSU fans make fun of playing Division II schools, why would they have wanted to play UND more than another year or 2? I thought that NDSU had the best transition ever. If NDSU had the best transition ever then it didn't get hurt by UND cancelling the games. You can't have it both ways. That's why it appears so childish.

That group on Bville acts like little children holding a grudge.

I agree about the fatigue factor, and I have mentioned that before. I do worry about the confusing language of the ballot.

You made a specific statement. You can't prove the statement, because it is false. There is not a single quality college or university without athletics. That would tend to prove that athletics are an important part of having a quality educational program. Name an example to validate your position.

Let's play "Shoot Holes in Their Statement". This is not to imply that I am covering every thing that is wrong with this statement, only the really obvious ones. Compare the bolded statements above with the explanation below. The statement says that the Native American policy can be challenged because it was made outside the jurisdiction of the Executive Committee. THAT WAS THE BASIS OF THE UND LAWSUIT. THE NCAA THEN CHANGED THE JURISDICTION OF THE EXECUTIVE COMMITTE TO ALLOW IT TO MAKE THESE TYPE POLICIES. THAT WAS DONE DURING THE LAWSUIT. THIS IS WHY THE SETTLEMENT WAS AGREED TO. THE NCAA CLOSED THAT LOOPHOLE. UND HAS NO RIGHTS TO SUE AGAIN. Obviously the illustrious Reed Soderstrom is at work again since he has no clue about the settlement. They continue to claim the sanctions are minimal. That is an amazing claim since most of the effects of the sanctions haven't even started yet. It is also amazing for a group that doesn't understand anything about sports to make about a complex organization like collegiate sports. Obviously they have not competed in collegiate sports, coached collegiate sports or been in administration in collegiate sports. I would believe an Associate Athletic Director at a Division I school, a person like Ray Purpur, and a head football coach like Dale Lennon believe anyone associated with this group. Obviously this group has no understanding of out-of-conference games. It is very likely that UND could schedule every year or every other year games against both Minnesota and Wisconsin in hockey. Negotiations were in progress with Wisconsin for such a series before the sanctions went into effect. Discussions had also been started with Minnesota. Iowa cancelled games in women's basketball and cancelled an appearance by UND in a track meet. These games could easily continue in future years if not for the sanctions. I won't even get into any other schools that could possibly adopt this policy, such as South Dakota State. I believe that NDSU is 2-1 against Minnesota in football in the past decade. South Dakota and South Dakota State have also played Minnesota in football. Are these people living in a cave or is this just another example of how little they know about sports? The statement about deceitful tongues is correct, only the side that is being deceitful is the Committee for Understanding. All you have to do is look at the items I am listing. Fortunately, if the Fargo Forum poll is correct, the people of North Dakota will see through the Committee's deceit and will vote YES on Measure 4. Please let these people know that their lies will not be tolerated and the citizens of North Dakota will do what is best for the University of North Dakota. They didn't ask to be included in the discussion until the issue had been settled. If they were truly interested in helping with the issue they would have spoken up in 2005 or 2006 and not wait until it was too late. Minnesota and Wisconsin adopted Native American policies in the late 1990s. They modified their policies after 2005 to fit the NCAA policy. As a matter of fact, the NCAA Best Practices portion of their policy was based on the Wisconsin policy. The policies of both schools were originally written to prevent playing schools with Native American nicknames or logos unless THE SCHOOLS BELONGED TO THE SAME CONFERENCE, THE GAMES WERE IN NCAA TOURNAMENT PLAY, OR THE GAMES WERE ARRANGED BY THEIR CONFERENCE SUCH AS THE BIG 10 VERSUS ACC BASKETBALL SERIES. The NCAA Best Practices policy recommends similar policies for schools. That is why Wisconsin and Minnesota will no longer play UND in hockey once they are in separate conferences, except for playing in the NCAA tournament. The odds of UND playing either school in an individual year are small. As we can see, the Committee is poorly informed, or outright lying. It is time to move on. UND needs to retire the nickname and logo so they can become a competitive and vibrant member of Division I athletics. Vote YES on Measure 4. I made an error in the statement about Minnesota and Wisconsin adopting Native American policies. The first policies from both schools came out in 1993, not the late 1990s. Their announcements were made about a week apart, with Wisconsin's original policy much stronger than Minnesota's original policy.

Sorry, I don't play games with elections and government. I think they are serious business, and that voting should involve making educated decisions. Voting is a right that not all countries give their citizens, so I make sure that I am educated on every issue and race that I am voting on.

They have started discussions on that very topic because of attendance issues at many regionals. One of the solutions that has been thrown out is to make the first round a best 2 out of 3 held at the home of the higher seed. That is why I have mentioned the fact that if UND is on NCAA sanctions the hockey team wouldn't be able to host playoff games if they change the format. I have no idea how likely it is that they would change the format. Having a neutral site is the other side of the coin. They will have to decide which is more important. But as we have seen in St. Paul with Minnesota and when Wisconsin is hosting a tournament in Wisconsin, a neutral site isn't always neutral.

The Committee for Understanding and Respect at Spirit Lake still seems to be the focal point for the effort, along with the SAB group. I assume that the Committee is using donations made to their web site for the ads, but I have no evidence of that. Representatives from the Committee seemed to be the people they talked to for the article in the Herald yesterday.